Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 00:00:51
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
It seems half the games at nova this year where decided by tank shock one way or another.
It was ruled that a jump unit or a jetpack unit can't move freely over intervening models because the movement was involuntary and so the controlling player could not pick a moment type.
This seams to me to be the incorrect decision.
jump rules
"Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase – they cannot use their jump packs in both phases in the same turn. If not using its jump pack, a model moves as a normal model of its type. Indeed, a Jump unit can always choose to move as a normal model of their type if they wish."
The underlined part would indicate that normal movement is not the default for a jump unit.
jet pack rules.
"Jet Pack units can move as normal models of their type or use their jet packs."
Again no indication of a default movement type.
jet bike rule
"Jetbikes can move over all other models and terrain freely."
It seems that their interpretation was incorrect what does ymdc think.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 00:41:14
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Jump packs specifies that they can use their jump either, the movement phase or the assault phase, any other time, it's normal.
I'd say they can't jump over other models.
Similar, the Jet pack can Choose to use packs on movement and assault. But it doesn't explicitly say that.
Jet bikes can.
Unless you fail the morale check that it's a fall back movement, that Jump packs explicity says that they use their jump pack when retreating, there is no discussion.
If you pass it, it's not a movement. I think...
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 10:07:42
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
the wording is "once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase"
tank shock happens in the movement phase. The rule does not specify who turn it is.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 10:29:49
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
How was tank shock performed to destroy the enemy unit(s) ?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 10:42:37
Subject: Re:tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
How was tank shock performed to destroy the enemy unit(s) ?
fate weaver was in the corner of the table, rhino and 5 marines close by, the marines block the left flank and the rhino goes at an angle to cover the right flank and tank shock (no gaps in the centre), there was not enough room to move fatey to move around the rhino without leaving the board.
It was ruled that fatey could not "jump" over or get past the Rhino so was therefore destroyed as it failed to stop the Rhino with death or glory.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 13:05:03
Subject: Re:tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Auspicious Daemonic Herald
|
gallantseer wrote:How was tank shock performed to destroy the enemy unit(s) ?
fate weaver was in the corner of the table, rhino and 5 marines close by, the marines block the left flank and the rhino goes at an angle to cover the right flank and tank shock (no gaps in the centre), there was not enough room to move fatey to move around the rhino without leaving the board.
It was ruled that fatey could not "jump" over or get past the Rhino so was therefore destroyed as it failed to stop the Rhino with death or glory.
Was Fateweaver not flying?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 15:06:05
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
What do you think ?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 22:32:03
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Auspicious Daemonic Herald
|
There is no reason for Fateweaver to not be swooping in the opponents movement phase.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 22:44:59
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Hellish Haemonculus
|
Unless he was Grounded.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 22:45:06
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
A tank shocked unit can always move through the tank shocking unit. If you couldn't then you would never be able to move out of the way since you don't move until the final position of the tank is determined. Either way you have to move through the tank so you can just move to where the non skimmer tank came from.
|
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 22:54:42
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Auspicious Daemonic Herald
|
Getting grounded doesn't happen until the end of the shooting phase so it's too late to get tank shocked and Fateweaver will just return to swooping in his following movement phase
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/07 23:54:31
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
CrownAxe wrote:
Getting grounded doesn't happen until the end of the shooting phase so it's too late to get tank shocked and Fateweaver will just return to swooping in his following movement phase
Not that this isn't off topic, but he could have been grounded in his (Fateweaver's) psychic phase. or he could have needed fatweaver to contest an objective, or it was just poor strategy.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 00:08:20
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
It was a very complex situation where fatweaver could not escape the tank shock without going within an inch of another model, don't worry about the specifics of this particular situation.
focus on whether a model can use its ability to move over enemy models while escaping from a tank shock.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 00:38:19
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
Sunhero wrote:It was a very complex situation where fatweaver could not escape the tank shock without going within an inch of another model, don't worry about the specifics of this particular situation.
focus on whether a model can use its ability to move over enemy models while escaping from a tank shock.
The models under the tanks final position have to be able to move through the tank, otherwise the rules about moving out of the way of the tank shock are useless.
|
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 02:03:35
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
|
The model must move the shortest distance to be 1" away from the vehicle doing the tank shock. If this takes it within 1" of another enemy model or out of coherency then it is destroyed.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 05:57:34
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
Bahkara wrote:The model must move the shortest distance to be 1" away from the vehicle doing the tank shock. If this takes it within 1" of another enemy model or out of coherency then it is destroyed.
Except the Tank Shock rule states "If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is Falling Back or not), these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle whilst maintaining unit coherency and staying on the board."
So if you can not get 1" away from the vehicle in a direction because there are enemy models there, that is not the shortest distance that fits the qualifications, and you have to find the shortest distance where they can leave 1 inch between them and the vehicle.
|
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 06:17:49
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
|
Right, so they are destroyed because they cannot move the shortest distance and still maintain coherency. The next sentence after the one you quoted even mentions that if they can't do both, maintain coherency and be 1" away, they are removed with no save allowed. This suggests that you have to move the shortest distance or else why even make coherency a condition if, like previous editions, you can just move as much as you want to maintain coherency or just move back into coherency on the next turn.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/08 06:28:23
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 06:26:17
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Bahkara wrote:Right, so they are destroyed because they cannot move the shortest distance and still maintain coherency
The shortest distance is the one that fulfils all criteria. One of the criteria is not being within 1" of an enemy unit. You only destroy the unit if there is no way to move past an enemy unit to be more than 1" away.
Fateweaver does not jump "over" the tank, the tank passes through and fateweaver moves the shortest distance, ignoiring the tank being in the way. Jump or jet movement is irrelevant, infantry can happily do this.
Sounds like a really, really bad call in game if tey said FW was destroyed.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 06:30:51
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
|
And that the problem. I read it a different way. Either way FW died and that, plus having a bunker in your army, cost Nick the game
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 10:40:19
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
According to how the sentence is constructed, only one reading is correct.
It is the same as shortest route for making charges; this is shortest route while also not making base with another units models, not going through impassable terrain, etc.
It is inordinately difficult to kill models with tank shock. It can only occur, to my knowledge, when you have a wall of models around the unit you wish to TS, and you then TS a skimmer tank in; the allowance to move past the TS model does not apply ot other models.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/08 19:11:10
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
nosferatu1001 wrote:According to how the sentence is constructed, only one reading is correct.
It is the same as shortest route for making charges; this is shortest route while also not making base with another units models, not going through impassable terrain, etc.
It is inordinately difficult to kill models with tank shock. It can only occur, to my knowledge, when you have a wall of models around the unit you wish to TS, and you then TS a skimmer tank in; the allowance to move past the TS model does not apply ot other models.
For wiping out a whole unit, yes that is the only way to kill a whole unit with TS (to my knowledge as well).
|
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 14:16:27
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver
|
I thought you couldn't tank shock a flying monstrous creature in swoop mode?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 15:11:54
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Executing Exarch
|
Correct, but you can Tank Shock one that is Gliding. Although the question was general on various unit types before the Fateweaver example came up (note the conversation about him needing to have been grounded or chosen to Glide).
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/09 17:22:18
Subject: tank shock and special unit types
|
 |
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver
|
Okay, that makes more sense. I just saw the snide "What do you think" but no confirmation. If he was gliding then he's probably screwed. Thanks!
|
|
 |
 |
|