Tyranid Regeneration any use?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Wallur**

I know that is commonly said that regeneration on tyranid MC are discarded in the meta because any MC can be taken down in one turn, specially in high points battles.

But is there any reason or strategy that would make them usefull?

I only thought of the new Skytyrant formation, that the Hive Tyrant have 20 minimum gargoyls for a 2+ LoS, would give it enough survivability for the Regen.

Maybe a walkrant with Tyrant guard?

I usually play 750 - 1000 points, does there make it worth having regen?

**disdamn**

I use regen once in a while, but never at less than 1500 pts. I'd say it's been useful about 1/3 of the time (in that the model soaked up more wounds than base value) I've had my hive tyrant take 6 wounds over 5 turns before and keep alive to finish off the enemy warlord. That was worthwhile purchase, but again only about 1/3 the time do I find it a useful upgrade.

I usually only take it when I have so many points to spend and not enough models to field

**topaxygouroun i**

Only time it is worth the points is when used on a tyranid prime (cheaper than the monster equivalent). Then you can have him lead a unit of warriors, soak a couple of str 8 shots that would ID a warrior otherwise, then move him back, let him heal, repeat. Even like that it is a very bad strategy anyways, as it would mean you are paying points for footslogging warriors.

If you pau regen on 4 MC's, this means you could have an extra Carnifex for the points. Use the extra Carnifex.

**Frozocrone**

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Only time it is worth the points is when used on a tyranid prime (cheaper than the monster equivalent). Then you can have him lead a unit of warriors, soak a couple of str 8 shots that would ID a warrior otherwise, then move him back, let him heal, repeat. Even like that it is a very bad strategy anyways, as it would mean you are paying points for footslogging warriors.

If you pau regen on 4 MC's, this means you could have an extra Carnifex for the points. Use the extra Carnifex.

It's the same price for MC as it is for the Prime - and the Prime is possibly the worst HQ in the book.

Regeneration should only be used on two things, Tyrannofex in a light ap2 meta or Flyrants because of Hard to Hit. 30 points is a lot to spend though, that's the price of two devourers for a tyrant which would be much, much better.

**Yarium**

I find that if my monstrous creatures don't die in one turn when targeted, they die the next turn. Even if regaining the wound was guaranteed, I still doubt it'd be worth the points.

**vipoid**

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Only time it is worth the points is when used on a tyranid prime (cheaper than the monster equivalent). Then you can have him lead a unit of warriors, soak a couple of str 8 shots that would ID a warrior otherwise, then move him back, let him heal, repeat. Even like that it is a very bad strategy anyways, as it would mean you are paying points for footslogging warriors.

It also means you're paying the same price as a hive tyrant for a HQ with worse stats across the board.

The Prime is overcosted enough already without adding an even more overcosted ability like regeneration to him.

**Wallur**

Thank you guys... until they buff it, it seems quite useless.

**BoomWolf**

Tyranid Regeneration suffers from 3 main problems:

1-it does nothing until you are actually hurt, yet doesn't help not to die right away.

2-its far not reliable enough that it help.

3-it costs alot.

Now, what's the balance point of cost/effect would actually be worth it?

Lets assume the monster in question will have 2 attempts at regen, that's an optimistic thought of 2 turns where it got hurt, but was not killed. 40k usually have things die the turn they are first targeted, or the turn after, unless the situation is rather one-sided by that point.
As it regens on a 4+ and probably makes an average of two attempts, its as if you bought an extra wound, for 30 points.
so, at 30 points per wound, you need to assume that the % increase of points is not more than half the increase in wound count. (because you only get extra durability, not extra offensive/utility)
For the big monsters its a 25% increase in wound count. so you want the regen's 30 point to be not more than 12.5% of the model itself.
This means, if its not at least 240 points already-don't bother. and that's under the very optimistic assumption you get two attempts, but lets be honest-you'd get one. maybe less.
HAD it been FnP or another such rule that allows to prevent the damage ahead, it would be far more attractive, but its not.

Tl;dr its hardly amazing, but its decent enough to help a key model survive that is too expensive to take multiples of.

**Vaktathi**

Wallur wrote:
I know that is commonly said that regeneration on tyranid MC are discarded in the meta because any MC can be taken down in one turn, specially in high points battles.

But is there any reason or strategy that would make them usefull?

I only thought of the new Skytyrant formation, that the Hive Tyrant have 20 minimum gargoyls for a 2+ LoS, would give it enough survivability for the Regen.

Maybe a walkrant with Tyrant guard?

I usually play 750 - 1000 points, does there make it worth having regen?

Regeneration can be a good investment on the 6 wound MC's, they've got enough staying power that they can usually get some use out of it. For the lighter MC's, it's usually pretty pointless.

**vipoid**

Vaktathi wrote:
Regeneration can be a good investment on the 6 wound MC's, they've got enough staying power that they can usually get some use out of it. For the lighter MC's, it's usually pretty pointless.

Might it also be worth it on flyrants?

**Wallur**

Flyrants swooping may have some more survivability due to only snapshoting them and jink if necesary, but, one hit, if he avoid being grounded (3+) then it can keep his survivability and next turn start fresh. If it fail de ground 1/3 of the time, it will probably die that turn.

But yes, woudn't use that on a carnifex.

**vipoid**

Wallur wrote:
Flyrants swooping may have some more survivability due to only snapshoting them and jink if necesary, but, one hit, if he avoid being grounded (3+) then it can keep his survivability and next turn start fresh. If it fail de ground 1/3 of the time, it will probably die that turn.

They still need something in position to assault it when it's grounded - hardly a given, considering its speed and mobility.

**Vaktathi**

vipoid wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Regeneration can be a good investment on the 6 wound MC's, they've got enough staying power that they can usually get some use out of it. For the lighter MC's, it's usually pretty pointless.

Might it also be worth it on flyrants?

It might be given how hard they are to hurt in the first place, but I haven't seen it used on one personally.

**vipoid**

There are probably better uses for the points... like more flyrants.

**Vaktathi**

That would be my guess

I mean, if you've got an extra 30pts sitting around, it may not be a terrible use, but that would probably be about the extent to which I'd use it.

**digital-animal**

It would be better if it were treated like Necrons ELP so like a 4+ FNP. Otherwise too expensive.

**locarno24**

Agreed with the general consensus - it's not an awful investment on a hive tyrant - since hard to hit means it should be taking the odd wound here and there and has a decent chance of living long enough to get a wound back.

Certainly on your warlord Flyrant it's not a bad investment to protect your Slay The Warlord victory point (although I'd argue Fighter Ace is better).

The other unit Regeneration is good on already comes with it included - the Hierophant.

**vipoid**

digital-animal wrote:
It would be better if it were treated like Necrons ELP so like a 4+ FNP. Otherwise too expensive.

You don't think 30pts to double a MC's survivability might be a tad overpowered?

**digital-animal**

Well as it is it's a little too expensive - If it did what I proposed (which I borrowed that idea from a fellow local Nid player) I would pay for it. Maybe even if it was just a given 5+ FNP instead.

I just feel like current nids outside of Flyrant/Mawloc spam aren't very spooky. At all - and I wonder what other people think about them.

When I bring them out I just feel like I'm playing a turkey shoot and I'm playing the turkey

**Wallur**

vipoid wrote:
Wallur wrote:
Flyrants swooping may have some more survivability due to only snapshoting them and jink if necesary, but, one hit, if he avoid being grounded (3+) then it can keep his survivability and next turn start fresh. If it fail de ground 1/3 of the time, it will probably die that turn.

They still need something in position to assault it when it's grounded - hardly a given, considering its speed and mobility.

not necesary...
If it is grounded, no longer the limitation to Snap Shot, so it recieves shots at full BS, pls can't jink/loose jink the turn it is grounded.

It's easier to shot him down too

**Theofilos**

Quite helpful posts mate thnx as well!

**QuazzaP**

Personally I use it on most of my tervigons, as they are simply less likely to get shot of the board in one turn and usually have more of a chance to recover!

Regeneration can be pricey and can lead to being useless (carnifex getting melted by some melta-spam mechanized veterans for example) but can be fantastic, if used on a beast that you REALLY want to keep alive, and are willing to spend 8 termagants on attempting to do so.