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I'm sure the only reason they're depicted in the GW 40k CSM armor is because they are in the CSM codex.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to model 40k Alpha Legion in C:SM armor instead?

I've never seen an Alpha Legion army modeled this way other than HH Forgeworld Models.

I think it would be cool to make a SM Army of Alpha Legion and have them look like they would in 40k gear and use C:SM vehicles and Tactics.

From the fluff I know, they pretty much avoided the warp so daemon engines seem like they don't make sense for them. Only thing that wouldn't mesh well is the use of cultist but I suppose to can ally them with IG and treat them like renegades.

Of course these would be for fluffy aesthetic purposes

You could use Chaos Space Marine codex without daemon engines and ally with IA13 or IA5 2nd Edition.

Or you could use Space Marine codex and ally with Imperial Guard.

Both would be legitimate I think.

Like most CSM factions, the current codex doesn't really suit their playstyle. I've personally gone for FW MKV, with Deimos Rhinos, Sicaran, Spartan AV, and a Fire Raptor one my to-buy list. I also play have a growing Lost and the Damned force to act as another part of the force. It's taken me quite a while to figure out how I want to play them - 30k Alpha Legion, LatD, CSM codex. I was long considering using the SM codex and allying in IG. However, I know people have used Black Legion, Imperial Fists etc. as well.

However, the Alpha Legion of 40k isn't the Alpha Legion of 30k, and changes would vary between cells/warbands. Voldorius was a daemon prince, the old Index Astartes article mentions mutations, while the Vraks Alpha Legionnaires were so "normal" they masqueraded as normal SMs etc. There's absolutely nothing unfluffy with playing an Alpha Legion force as shown in the current codex.

And we will not raise the issue of Khornate Alpha Legion Sorcerers.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:
I'm sure the only reason they're depicted in the GW 40k CSM armor is because they are in the CSM codex.

Also because they are Chaos Space Marines.

They're not typically located in the Eye of Terror, so you wouldn't expect quite as much warpstress on Alpha Legionnaires. That said, the warp reflects reality and reality reflects the warp, so being chaos marines they are still little beacons of the warp, so some amount of warp stress wouldn't be unexpected.

Being based away from large warp disturbances also suggests to me that they won't have 'benefited' from the warp time dilation effects other legions have endured, meaning many Alpha Legion sects might have been running the full 10k years since the Horus Heresy.

This a lot of time in which they will need to keep their equipment up and running (or finding replacements/spares). It suggest that while they won't have Mk V Heresy armour proper, as they will have looted a lot of mark VI and VII in the interim, they will maintain the jumbled appearance that comes with Mk V.

It is my opinion the current CSM codex best represents warbands that are a mix of the splintered factions that once were legions. As such, I've built my current space marine army around a mixed legion force united under Abaddon.

As part of my force I'm working on a squad of Alpha Legionnaires, they use a mix of chaos and loyalist parts, minimising 'warped' components and I've largely avoided mutations (except for the champion, who gets two heads because hydra).

This is my progress so far with my vision of 40k Alpha Legionnaires:

Everything is still WIP so if you have any CNC please PM me (I don't want to hijack this thread)!

I concur, out of all the "chaos" legions, AL and IW would be the most "normal" looking chaos marines. I use IW not because of exposure and such but because they tend to lop off mutations and add in bionics making them look pretty much like Iron hands in different paint schemes. AL on the other hand has actually screwed with Imperial forces and fooled them into thinking they actually were Ultramarines in at least one occasion. Their battle cry is still "For the Emperor!" and it still isn't 100% confirmed they are true chaos marines and not simply doing their own agenda for or against the Imperium. Certainly some factions(AL even in the Heresy days was made up of individual cells) have sided with chaos and embraced it, but others might eschew it entirely. I think the CSM dex better represents them unless you are going for a faction that does the chaos thing and even then I would avoid cult troops and silly dinobots. With the Imperial versions I would ally storm troopers or maybe vet heavy imperial guard to represent their specially trained operatives. With the chaos versions you already have access to cultists and the chaos marines probably ended their old ways of training special people and simply went with the horde system.

My Alpha Legion is actually not the Alpha Legion. It's a force of Chaos Marines whose founding was aided by an Alpha Legion cell, and many Marines wear the colours and emblems of whichever Legion/Chapter/Warband they feel closest to (most of them don't know their gene-seed, as their stock is compiled from many different sources and occasionally altered). The majority of Alpha Legion-looking Marines in my army are actually newer Marines who decorate themselves like the Alpha Legion out of respect and veneration for their benefactors, ignoring their possible gene-seed lineage, preferring real actions over history and legacy. Within this force are an indeterminate amount of Alpha Legionaires, and nobody knows exactly who they are. Within the warband are Marines colouring themselves as pre- or post- Heresy Legions, Chapters and warbands, Loyalist and Chaos both. There are Salamanders, Blood Angels, pre-Heresy World Eaters, post-Heresy World Eaters, Black Templars, Raven Guard, pre-Heresy Emperor's Children, Iron Hands, and others. These individuals may or may not actually have the gene-seed of their chosen dedication, but they feel a certain affinity towards one and choose that as their identity, even though they are loyal to their creators (a group formed from a rogue Inquisitor, a rogue Tech-Priest, and a Sanguinary Priest who believes he must use radical means in his quest to cure The Flaw). The Alpha Legion's intentions for this group are unknown, just as it is unknown how many of them there are. There could be anyone, or no one.

That's kind of the point, anyway. They're the Alpha Legion - their looks are entirely dependent on their player/collector. Besides, if they look like rabid Chaos worshipers covered in horns, blasphemies and spikes, or if they look like Space Marines with smooth ceramite and Imperial iconography, it's probably because that appearance suits their current task in some way. Just about anything they do could have some strategic reasoning behind it, and their (current) appearance is no exception.

Short version: they're the Alpha Legion. Their appearance is very variable.

As of M41, a lot of (if not most) Alpha Legion units have fallen to Chaos. Its been 10,000 years and the original purpose of their mission has been lost. They're essentially corrupted, and take on a chaos aesthetic. The Alpha Legion of M41 uses Daemon Engines, has Possessed and Sorcerers, and so on. They would not have a "normal" appearance really. Even non-Chaos worshiping CSM factions (like Talos' night lords) still looked like codex CSM.

If you want to be specific about it, Night Lords looked like chaos marines before chaos marines existed, it was part of their whole "Lets be scary" thing. Hell, the current raptors and the heresy era Night Raptors look almost the same with only a few extra spikes, that's why I found it cheaper to do my Night Raptor squad from 40k raptors than to use FW models. A few extra details of course because its FW and they make better models usually, but overall the same model. I own both and use Night Raptors as a command squad when I field the primarch.

Very few chaos marines have been fighting for 10,000 years. Like Talos's warband, many of them have only been banging around for a few hundred years due to the time distortion from the warp. AL would still be the least corrupted since they never moved into the Eye and stayed in the real universe, so its possible that age wise AL has the oldest average marine age of any marine unit. Corrupted AL would have a hard time blending in like they enjoy doing, and it is still not 100% confirmed whose team they are actually on. For the most part they follow Abbadon but realistically how much loyalty do they have to him since they have their own mission going on.They are not known for using daemons and even in the older rules had to have cultists in order to summon them, being unable to do it themselves. I think more than Night Lords however, they are more likely to use chaos as a weapon if they so chose rather than eschewing blatant use altogether.

Col. Dash wrote:
IFor the most part they follow Abbadon but realistically how much loyalty do they have to him since they have their own mission going on.

Source? I know they have worked for him before, but I'd say most follow Alpharius/High Command.

They have indeed worked for him in the past. The question is how much actual loyalty do they have for him compared to their own mission(which is a whole another topic thread for itself, which there is plenty of speculation of even here on Dakka. Even in the Heresy they were not fond of being told what to do and did things their own way when Horus wasn't looking over their shoulder, thus the Paramar incident.

 Harriticus wrote:
As of M41, a lot of (if not most) Alpha Legion units have fallen to Chaos. Its been 10,000 years and the original purpose of their mission has been lost. They're essentially corrupted, and take on a chaos aesthetic. The Alpha Legion of M41 uses Daemon Engines, has Possessed and Sorcerers, and so on. They would not have a "normal" appearance really. Even non-Chaos worshiping CSM factions (like Talos' night lords) still looked like codex CSM.

Regardless of whether they have or have not "fallen to Chaos", their modus operandi remains the same. They're the deceivers and the manipulators. If an Alpha Legion cell wanted to corrupt a population purely because of loyalty to the Dark Gods, they'd show up pretending to be Loyalist Space Marines if such a tactic suited their plan. Chaos doesn't have a strict dress code, despite the impression the miniatures and artwork tend to give.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
As of M41, a lot of (if not most) Alpha Legion units have fallen to Chaos. Its been 10,000 years and the original purpose of their mission has been lost. They're essentially corrupted, and take on a chaos aesthetic. The Alpha Legion of M41 uses Daemon Engines, has Possessed and Sorcerers, and so on. They would not have a "normal" appearance really. Even non-Chaos worshiping CSM factions (like Talos' night lords) still looked like codex CSM.

Regardless of whether they have or have not "fallen to Chaos", their modus operandi remains the same. They're the deceivers and the manipulators. If an Alpha Legion cell wanted to corrupt a population purely because of loyalty to the Dark Gods, they'd show up pretending to be Loyalist Space Marines if such a tactic suited their plan. Chaos doesn't have a strict dress code, despite the impression the miniatures and artwork tend to give.

Most Imperial citizens -even those on the elite- have never seen a Space Marine in the flesh, only heard about them in cantos and articles of faith, and knowledge of Chaos and his servants is sketchy at best and heavily influenced by religious narratives. Add a fairly shaky record-keeping system and painfully slow communications to the mix and you have a recipe for disaster: An Alpha Legion cell could easily pass itself off as servants of the Emperor without even having to conceal their true colors.

On that note most citizens don't even know such a thing as chaos even exists or that there ever was a heresy. They have liquidated entire Imperial guard regiments and civilian populations after chaos invasions to keep knowledge from the general public. I think the average joe might be a bit suspicious if some spikey armored, fresh skull adorned giant shows knocks on your door and asks to speak with you about your relationship with God.

Actually, all Imperial citizens should know Chaos exists, or else they haven't been paying attention in church. The Imperium is a theocracy, with the Emperor as god, and Chaos as its enemy. Most of course won't know any details beyond the religious myths and dogma of the Imperial Creed, but they will at least be aware of the existance of Chaos as an evil power.
In the same way, Imperial citizens will probably also know of the Horus Heresy, as the (probably heavily distorted) Imperial Creed version of those events likely has the same significance as the New Testament does to Christians.

So while the average Imperial won't know the truth about Chaos or the HH, they will have at least a very mythologised knowledge of it.

Also, while like most Christians, most Imperial citizens will have never seen an actual angel (Space Marine) they will probably have some idea of what they are supposed to look like due to religious descriptions and icons. In any case I don't think they will accept a mutated CSM as a genuine SM. Mutation is one of the greatest sins.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
As of M41, a lot of (if not most) Alpha Legion units have fallen to Chaos. Its been 10,000 years and the original purpose of their mission has been lost. They're essentially corrupted, and take on a chaos aesthetic. The Alpha Legion of M41 uses Daemon Engines, has Possessed and Sorcerers, and so on. They would not have a "normal" appearance really. Even non-Chaos worshiping CSM factions (like Talos' night lords) still looked like codex CSM.

Regardless of whether they have or have not "fallen to Chaos", their modus operandi remains the same. They're the deceivers and the manipulators. If an Alpha Legion cell wanted to corrupt a population purely because of loyalty to the Dark Gods, they'd show up pretending to be Loyalist Space Marines if such a tactic suited their plan. Chaos doesn't have a strict dress code, despite the impression the miniatures and artwork tend to give.

Most Imperial citizens -even those on the elite- have never seen a Space Marine in the flesh, only heard about them in cantos and articles of faith, and knowledge of Chaos and his servants is sketchy at best and heavily influenced by religious narratives. Add a fairly shaky record-keeping system and painfully slow communications to the mix and you have a recipe for disaster: An Alpha Legion cell could easily pass itself off as servants of the Emperor without even having to conceal their true colors.

Depends on who they're trying to trick.

If they do then that is a massive retcon from the older fluff. Even marines are mindwiped between battles with chaos to erase the taint of chaos while somehow still keeping experiences learned. I am aware this has been less mentioned of late. Citizens should be completely in the dark. If they don't know about chaos, they cant seek it out. This was the whole source of controversy between the Space wolves and the Inquisition when after a major chaos incursion where even citizens were fighting for their lives, the Inq sterilized them and put them in massive work camps to keep the knowledge of chaos a secret. Kind of pissed off the chapter master of the Wolves who viewed the citizens as honorable allies in the struggle. That's why the rank and file of most chaos cults don't know they are chaos cults until its too late, been a few stories about this. I know I have read in multiple places that the average citizen has no clue about the HH and remember reading that knowing such information would shatter their view of the entire cult of the Imperium if they knew their revered protector angels could turn against them and still prowled the stars.

Col. Dash wrote:
They have indeed worked for him in the past. The question is how much actual loyalty do they have for him compared to their own mission(which is a whole another topic thread for itself, which there is plenty of speculation of even here on Dakka. Even in the Heresy they were not fond of being told what to do and did things their own way when Horus wasn't looking over their shoulder, thus the Paramar incident.

Having worked at some point don't mean that's who gives them orders. Abaddon commands the Black Legion and whoever else whose loyalty he can get. They are more like independent contractors in that manner. Hell, Horus didn't even think they were entirely on his side.

Col. Dash wrote:
If they do then that is a massive retcon from the older fluff. Even marines are mindwiped between battles with chaos to erase the taint of chaos while somehow still keeping experiences learned. I am aware this has been less mentioned of late. Citizens should be completely in the dark. If they don't know about chaos, they cant seek it out. This was the whole source of controversy between the Space wolves and the Inquisition when after a major chaos incursion where even citizens were fighting for their lives, the Inq sterilized them and put them in massive work camps to keep the knowledge of chaos a secret. Kind of pissed off the chapter master of the Wolves who viewed the citizens as honorable allies in the struggle. That's why the rank and file of most chaos cults don't know they are chaos cults until its too late, been a few stories about this. I know I have read in multiple places that the average citizen has no clue about the HH and remember reading that knowing such information would shatter their view of the entire cult of the Imperium if they knew their revered protector angels could turn against them and still prowled the stars.

No, that is wrong. The Inquisition does not do those things to keep the knowledge of Chaos from spreading, but rather to make sure that if any individual was corrupted by his exposure to the reality of Chaos, he will not take this corruption with him to other places. This is only done in special cases however, and also depends on the Inquisitor in charge. Armageddon was a special case because it involved a traitor Primarch and the Grey Knights. Got to keep that silent.
All Imperial citizens are supposed to know of the evil and dangers of Chaos. How else are they supposed to stay away from it? Ignorance makes one much more easily seduced than blind hatred and life-long indoctrination. The average citizen has no clue about the truth of the Heresy (and seeing as that it was ten thousand year ago, probably no one in the Imperium knows the true facts anymore), he has only heard the heavily mythologised Imperial Cult version of those events. They have to explain how the Emperor got on that Throne somehow and became a god, as well as what he is actually fighting against and why psykers and mutants must be abhorred. Without general knowledge of Chaos and the Heresy, there could quite simply not be an Imperial Cult. A religion needs mythology to explain everything, and a god needs an enemy. The self-sacrifice of the Emperor is the central part of the Imperial religion. You can't explain that without explaining in some way why he had to sacrifice himself.


Also, knowledge of the Heresy and Chaos seems pretty common when reading through BL books.