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Hi Guys building a army list today and a weird combo came up.

if you had a melta gun within melta range with rending against a AV target - how would you get the +D3? would it have to be a single 6 on one of the dice? i know its overkill but just incase it becomes useful.

ta all

 kezwick wrote:
Hi Guys building a army list today and a weird combo came up.

if you had a melta gun within melta range with rending against a AV target - how would you get the +D3? would it have to be a single 6 on one of the dice? i know its overkill but just incase it becomes useful.

ta all

Fish aren't allowed to have gunz

on a serious note, if you manage to get a rending melta, It would be 2D6+D3 so....holy crap

I'm not sure it matters, the only melta weapons I can think of are S8, if you get a 6 on one of your dice, it doesn't matter what you get on the other, you have at least 15 so you have got a pen. This means that the rending is pointless.

Ahh good point there was just looking at the SM trait that gives a gun rending and thought mmm rending melta but now im thinking MMMM rending hevy flamer!!!

 kezwick wrote:
Ahh good point there was just looking at the SM trait that gives a gun rending and thought mmm rending melta but now im thinking MMMM rending hevy flamer!!!

Just to point out, I don't think there are any Space Marine characters that can get a heavy flamer...

 Ond Angel wrote:

 kezwick wrote:
Ahh good point there was just looking at the SM trait that gives a gun rending and thought mmm rending melta but now im thinking MMMM rending hevy flamer!!!

Just to point out, I don't think there are any Space Marine characters that can get a heavy flamer...

why would caracters matter storm of fire states that its Units get rending so i just use it on a termie squad

Warlord front armour is 15 I think so on the unlikely event you face one it would matter

 kezwick wrote:

 Ond Angel wrote:

 kezwick wrote:
Ahh good point there was just looking at the SM trait that gives a gun rending and thought mmm rending melta but now im thinking MMMM rending hevy flamer!!!

Just to point out, I don't think there are any Space Marine characters that can get a heavy flamer...

why would caracters matter storm of fire states that its Units get rending so i just use it on a termie squad

Ah, just checked that. My apologies. I'd misremembered and thought it was the warlord only.


EDIT:

Intercessor wrote:
Warlord front armour is 15 I think so on the unlikely event you face one it would matter

Even then, you need a 6 to trigger rending but you still have the other D6 for melta, so you'll get at least a 7 in that case.

 kezwick wrote:
Hi Guys building a army list today and a weird combo came up.

if you had a melta gun within melta range with rending against a AV target - how would you get the +D3? would it have to be a single 6 on one of the dice? i know its overkill but just incase it becomes useful.

ta all

This question is very similar to that of the Arqubus for the Skitarii. My local group determined that when you roll for the armor pen you should roll the dice 1 at a time. You would only rend on the first dice that was rolled. Might seem a bit wanky, but it goes with the whole melta in half range gives you a bonus dye when rolling for armor pen.

There are Buildings with Armour Value 15 as well, though I personally think it is a mistake to give anything that high an Armour Value.

However, to answer the question because it is one of those 'broken situations' I love so much:
so a 2D6 roll is two dice rolled and added together for a result between 2 and 12
- Modifying Dice Rolls
...each armour penetration roll of 6...
- Rending

You would need to have a roll of 6 before Rendering takes effect, after adding the two dice together to see what the result of the roll actually is. This is one of those 'Vacuum Effect' issues, where Game Workshop has failed to account for any Rule interactions, focusing on only the most basic of situations while explaining how the Rule functions. It is not the only Rule in this situation as there are others telling us what to do on a roll of 6, while also failing to account for rolls that might be 7+ range thanks to the Modifying Dice Rolls Rule. The most obvious 'House Rule' to fix this would be to simply slap a + after any Rule calling for a 6, assuming the Rule in question does not already account for rolls that may be greater then 6.

The only time this came up that I can think of is with the Vindicare in 5th edition

HE rolled S3+4D6 and had rending

The FAQ ruled that any of the D6 rolls of a 6 would give rending, so potentially you could get 3+24+12 for an armour pen of 37...

I am curious, as your more experienced with older versions then I am:
Have they been 'Hack and Pasting' the same Rule for rendering since 5th edition or before?

JinxDragon wrote:
I am curious, as your more experienced with older versions then I am:
Have they been 'Hack and Pasting' the same Rule for rendering since 5th edition or before?

It changed in 5th Edition, but has remained that way since then, more or less.

I didn't play 4th Edition, myself, but I remember everyone wailing about how useless Genestealers were for killing "anything" (aka Land Raiders) after 5th Edition came out.

If either die of the 2D6 roll rolls a 6 you add D3. You could potentially add 2D3 if both rolled a 6.

However, this really doesn't matter as most melta weapons are Str8. If you rolled a 1 and a 6, the minimum roll that qualifies for an additional D3, you've still penetrated AV14.

So unless your weapon is under Str8 or your target's AV is 15 or greater it won't matter.

JinxDragon wrote:
I am curious, as your more experienced with older versions then I am:
Have they been 'Hack and Pasting' the same Rule for rendering since 5th edition or before?

Plastering as well

If you don't roll a 6 in any die, no Rending. If one of them shows a 6, you get an extra +d3. But with 2 die, the +d3 is almost irrelevant

 roflmajog wrote:
I'm not sure it matters, the only melta weapons I can think of are S8, if you get a 6 on one of your dice, it doesn't matter what you get on the other, you have at least 15 so you have got a pen. This means that the rending is pointless.

XV9 Hazard suit (IA3) has access to a S6 Melta weapon

Reaver jet bikes have the heat laance, which is S6 melta ... but with the lance rule, makingit functionally identical to S8 melta vs AV14 (but better vs AV15, of course)