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Most of the arguments I see are either about tau being too noble bright, being animie inspired or about them being OP and annoying to play against. Most of which I feel aren't exactly grounded in realty or are based off older versions of the game or Tau lore. I'll admit I'm a little biased as a guy who plays tau and finds Japanese history interesting, but most of the stuff people complain about usually seems a little ignorant to me, especially when it's the same complaints I've seen be put out over and over without any facts or arguments to back it up. I also wish the people who complain about tau being "weebo trash" would realize that just because something takes inspiration from eastern culture doesn't mean it takes inspiration from eastern pop culture. Also, when people still call tau OP even after necrons space marines and eldar have gotten their new codexes It makes me roll my eyes a little. I really feel tau don't deserve the disproportionate amount of spite and loathing that they get.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/09/08 19:08:34
Maybe not the way you play them, but remember, Firebase Cadre, Triptides, lawlz Missilesides, ext. It's things like that that probably still leave a sour taste in people's mouths, and they're still not bad builds even to this day.
I don't know.. considering how they were depicted in DoW and all of the huge mecha suit that are available and coming out for Tau I would say the anime comparison is warranted.
And trust me pal. Once the new Codex hits I guarantee you the spirit of mid-6th ed will come alive again.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
Brace for the new hate that comes from the Tau Decurion. It is nearly a guarantee that it will be something hugely beneficial to shooting and will make many many armies null and void because of it.
Personally though, I'm hoping for Tau to break the MSU fad that has taken the current Meta. If it does, they will get a lot of hate. Make Tau an autowin against a Space Marine Battle Company and all the people that wasted money on Razorbacks will be crying.
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't know.. considering how they were depicted in DoW and all of the huge mecha suit that are available and coming out for Tau I would say the anime comparison is warranted.
And trust me pal. Once the new Codex hits I guarantee you the spirit of mid-6th ed will come alive again.
Just because you have mechs doesn't make it inherently inspired by anime. Honestly giant fighting robots is hardly only popular in japan. I will admit that them having mechs that fight might be inspired by Japanese culture, I'd like to point out that you'd hardly get away calling pacific rim or other stuff that clearly takes some level of inspiration from Japanese culture as anime.
Also, I'm fairly certain most of the armies that get updated will be called "op" compared to the ones that aren't updated. Tau aren't going to be nearly unique in this regard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/08 19:13:47
They have nothing in common with Japan. At all. Imperial Japan has much more in common culturally with the Imperium of Man. I mean suicide attacks, worship of an Emperor, love of mecha, sisters of battle waifu crap.
The Tau have more in common with the Classical Greek Republic, Star Trek Federation, and Brave New World all shmushed together. Tau aren't even communist their utilitarians.
Visually they are Asian looking. That's about it.
Edit
Oh they've also been given a Japanese/Asian accent in the games as well.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/09/08 19:22:26
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't know.. considering how they were depicted in DoW and all of the huge mecha suit that are available and coming out for Tau I would say the anime comparison is warranted.
And trust me pal. Once the new Codex hits I guarantee you the spirit of mid-6th ed will come alive again.
Just because you have mechs doesn't make it inherently inspired by anime. Honestly giant fighting robots is hardly only popular in japan. I will admit that them having mechs that fight might be inspired by Japanese culture, I'd like to point out that you'd hardly get away calling pacific rim or other stuff that clearly takes some level of inspiration from Japanese culture as anime.
Ultimately, all mechs can trace the idea back to early japanese robot animation. 40k is basically a mishmash of lots of sci-fi together. It would frankly be odd if Mechs didn't make an appearance. Calling it Anime is technically incorrect as that refers to a very broad art style, but seeing the inspiration from a lot of anime storylines isn't. Mechs might not be popular only in Japan, but Japanese animation is what made them popular. You can't divorce the ideas from each other.
Anyway, some of the Tau hates comes from their hypocritical actions. They say everything is for the Greater Good and they seem like good guys on the outside, but once you get past that they're just as ruthless and twisted as every other faction. The difference is the other factions aren't trying to make apologies or cover up what they do. They do what they do because they must. The Tau are no different, they just hide their smut under shiny clean armor and honeyed words.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't know.. considering how they were depicted in DoW and all of the huge mecha suit that are available and coming out for Tau I would say the anime comparison is warranted.
And trust me pal. Once the new Codex hits I guarantee you the spirit of mid-6th ed will come alive again.
Just because you have mechs doesn't make it inherently inspired by anime. Honestly giant fighting robots is hardly only popular in japan. I will admit that them having mechs that fight might be inspired by Japanese culture, I'd like to point out that you'd hardly get away calling pacific rim or other stuff that clearly takes some level of inspiration from Japanese culture as anime.
Also, I'm fairly certain most of the armies that get updated will be called "op" compared to the ones that aren't updated. Tau aren't going to be nearly unique in this regard.
... it's popular *because of* Japan. PacRim owes its existence to Japanese movies, both things like Godzilla and Tranzor-Z. It doesn't have to be anime-specifically (though a lot of Tau stuff looks like Robotech and Appleseed, now that you mention it...).
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Battletech is basically a western version of robotech, but much better and non of the Japanese nonsense you get.
I like my jap nonsense but in the right place, a good example is metal gear, I love all the games, but some of the silly characters and dialogue is so jap it's amazing.
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't know.. considering how they were depicted in DoW and all of the huge mecha suit that are available and coming out for Tau I would say the anime comparison is warranted.
And trust me pal. Once the new Codex hits I guarantee you the spirit of mid-6th ed will come alive again.
Just because you have mechs doesn't make it inherently inspired by anime. Honestly giant fighting robots is hardly only popular in japan. I will admit that them having mechs that fight might be inspired by Japanese culture, I'd like to point out that you'd hardly get away calling pacific rim or other stuff that clearly takes some level of inspiration from Japanese culture as anime.
Also, I'm fairly certain most of the armies that get updated will be called "op" compared to the ones that aren't updated. Tau aren't going to be nearly unique in this regard.
... it's popular *because of* Japan. PacRim owes its existence to Japanese movies, both things like Godzilla and Tranzor-Z. It doesn't have to be anime-specifically (though a lot of Tau stuff looks like Robotech and Appleseed, now that you mention it...).
I'll admit I did a messy job making my point on this. I'm not saying that mechs and fighting robots don't owe their popularity to japan and anime, I'm just saying that because they use robots doesn't mean they're strictly anime wannabes. Especially when the trope of giant fighting robots and mechs is as well spread as it is today.
How about the fact that there is nothing wrong with any of the things that people are comparing them to?
Who cares if they don't like them because it reminds them of anime?
Its basically a "stop liking things I don't like" argument.
Anyways, I think the Tau are cool personally, and I have a lot of respect for my local Tau player at my FLGS.
Personally though, I'm hoping for Tau to break the MSU fad that has taken the current Meta. If it does, they will get a lot of hate. Make Tau an autowin against a Space Marine Battle Company and all the people that wasted money on Razorbacks will be crying.
I don't know how they would do that except by making them able to fire an ungodly amount of weapons each turn with split fire on every model or something, and then everyone would be bitching about Tau being OP again... because they would be.
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Formosa wrote: Battletech is basically a western version of robotech, but much better and non of the Japanese nonsense you get.
I like my jap nonsense but in the right place, a good example is metal gear, I love all the games, but some of the silly characters and dialogue is so jap it's amazing.
Not that us westerners are any better lol
As if being made somewhere other than Japan makes it not Anime. I contend that Anime is a style that can be made by anyone who can reproduce it. Hence why there are several US made animated movies and shows I consider anime, even when some of the hardcore purists insist that Anime can only be made in Japan(as if that really means anything).
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Hu, I never really viewed the Tau as really anime inspired, but I guess I can see it with the Riptide and Crisis. I just always thought of them as the Protoss from Starcraft, which are common alien looking things.
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Tinkrr wrote: Hu, I never really viewed the Tau as really anime inspired, but I guess I can see it with the Riptide and Crisis. I just always thought of them as the Protoss from Starcraft, which are common alien looking things.
Really? The Protoss visually really have nothing in common with the Tau that I can see. Aside from... reverse jointed feet?
Both are very similar to many Anime styles I have seen however. I bet the Protoss took some inspiration from various anime aliens.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Tau Battlesuits have more in common with Gundam mechs than those in Western sci-fi. A good example of this is the difference between an Imperial Knight and a Riptide. The Knight has cables, pistons, valves and pipes exposed. It looks like it is slow, ponderous beast that could rip you to shreds once it catches you.
A Riptide is very sleek with minimal inner machinery exposed. It looks to be very agile and fast compared to the Knight. Tau battlesuits, as a whole, follow this aesthetic. But, like others have said, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it would be cool if the Tau were the Asian inspired faction with anime aesthetics.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/08 19:44:40
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
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AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
Jaxler wrote: Most of the arguments I see are either about tau being too noble bright, being animie inspired or about them being OP and annoying to play against. Most of which I feel aren't exactly grounded in realty or are based off older versions of the game or Tau lore. I'll admit I'm a little biased as a guy who plays tau and finds Japanese history interesting, but most of the stuff people complain about usually seems a little ignorant to me, especially when it's the same complaints I've seen be put out over and over without any facts or arguments to back it up. I also wish the people who complain about tau being "weebo trash" would realize that just because something takes inspiration from eastern culture doesn't mean it takes inspiration from eastern pop culture. Also, when people still call tau OP even after necrons space marines and eldar have gotten their new codexes It makes me roll my eyes a little. I really feel tau don't deserve the disproportionate amount of spite and loathing that they get.
Have I beaten new necrons, eldar, space marines, and space wolves. Yes even the deathstars and the gak formations! YES! Sure I lost some and eldar can be a pain in the ass but...
Have I ever beaten the tau... no. Not once, not ever, not even close. Now for my orks I expect to lose and I do! (Last game I didn't even kill a unit just shield drones) but maybe its just my friend who plays them or something IDK. But I am sorry until I get a game where I was close to a draw with the tau or a loss that I enjoyed (maybe kill a couple of units or something!?) I will always and forever label them cheap weebo trash.
Just being honest and I am sure all the tau players will say I am a noob and all that good stuff.
Just realize I am being honest.
First rule of Avatars in a room is: you never call the mods. Second rule of Avatars in a room is: you never call the mods. -Tyler Durden
Tinkrr wrote: Hu, I never really viewed the Tau as really anime inspired, but I guess I can see it with the Riptide and Crisis. I just always thought of them as the Protoss from Starcraft, which are common alien looking things.
Really? The Protoss visually really have nothing in common with the Tau that I can see. Aside from... reverse jointed feet?
Both are very similar to many Anime styles I have seen however. I bet the Protoss took some inspiration from various anime aliens.
The probes look a lot like the drones, without the gun attachments, at least in the original game which I'm mostly drawing from here.
The skin texture and head shape were more similar for the basic units at least, though Fenix and Tassadar did have more unique looking portraits that differentiated a lot.
The Ethereals remind me a lot of the High Templars, where they aren't really there for combat reasons as much as they are there for their powers, although there are exceptions in both.
They had the whole Conclave thing (controlled by the Judicator Caste, a group not dissimilar from the Ethereal Caste) , and the entire civilization worked kind of for the greater good of it... Not to mention the entire rogue Dark Templar story being somewhat reminiscent of the Farsight Enclave.
Plus it doesn't hurt that there was that dynamic of Space Marines, Tyranids, and Tau to line up with Terran, Zerg, and Protoss.
Tinkrr wrote: Hu, I never really viewed the Tau as really anime inspired, but I guess I can see it with the Riptide and Crisis. I just always thought of them as the Protoss from Starcraft, which are common alien looking things.
Really? The Protoss visually really have nothing in common with the Tau that I can see. Aside from... reverse jointed feet?
Both are very similar to many Anime styles I have seen however. I bet the Protoss took some inspiration from various anime aliens.
The probes look a lot like the drones, without the gun attachments, at least in the original game which I'm mostly drawing from here.
The skin texture and head shape were more similar for the basic units at least, though Fenix and Tassadar did have more unique looking portraits that differentiated a lot.
The Ethereals remind me a lot of the High Templars, where they aren't really there for combat reasons as much as they are there for their powers, although there are exceptions in both.
They had the whole Conclave thing (controlled by the Judicator Caste, a group not dissimilar from the Ethereal Caste) , and the entire civilization worked kind of for the greater good of it... Not to mention the entire rogue Dark Templar story being somewhat reminiscent of the Farsight Enclave.
Plus it doesn't hurt that there was that dynamic of Space Marines, Tyranids, and Tau to line up with Terran, Zerg, and Protoss.
Starcraft is actually ripping off 40k. It was actually originally going to be a 40k game, but GW backed out of the deal. Blizzard then salvaged it and made Starcraft(and Warcraft).
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
zombiekila707 wrote: Have I ever beaten the tau... no. Not once, not ever, not even close. Now for my orks I expect to lose and I do! (Last game I didn't even kill a unit just shield drones) but maybe its just my friend who plays them or something IDK. But I am sorry until I get a game where I was close to a draw with the tau or a loss that I enjoyed (maybe kill a couple of units or something!?) I will always and forever label them cheap weebo trash.
I'm not the greatest player out there and neither is my Tau playing mate but I've yet to lose against him with my SoB. It could well be your friend is the greatest 40K General ever.
A few things that help immensely. We don't play on open parking lots. There's enough terrain that the Tau can't all focus fire me one unit at a time. And I always go for the soft targets first - with Marines where every unit is a self-contained killer it's a matter of taste what you kill, with Tau you want to remove those soft things first. No Firewarriors and Pathfinders, no Markerlights to buff his suits (or Riptide). Marine units don't lose effectiveness because another unit was wiped out but Tau do. Kill the softies first every time and see your win percentage go up considerably.
As for the fluff, sure, the Tau describe themself as noble, just and honorable. But there's enough shading and dubious claims to make you think they're not always so squeaky clean when it comes to handling the aftermath of a conquest. Not that I see that as fundamentally less honest than the IoM using Exterminatus or executing loyal soldiers for seeing things. It's justified by the mere threat of Chaos and other subversive influences, but often in the fluff seems totally out of proportion compared to the real threat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/08 20:04:24
I just dislike tau because they're dull. A successful tau game goes like this:
Deploy. Never move. Shoot everything off the board. Maybe deep strike in some suits, who then continue the trend of just shooting everything.
All the interesting/dynamic units are considered bad because they're not Range=100000", S8 AP2 Ignores Cover. Kroot, Stealth suits, Ethereals, Devilfish, Piranhas, and all the options that could be used to make an interesting army to play with are eschewed in favor of Riptides, Missilesides, Pathfinders and min Firewarriors.
I've seen tau lists of varying levels of effectiveness but I've never seen one break the mold of "interact as little as possible with your opponent and make the game as boring as possible."
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Tinkrr wrote: Hu, I never really viewed the Tau as really anime inspired, but I guess I can see it with the Riptide and Crisis. I just always thought of them as the Protoss from Starcraft, which are common alien looking things.
Really? The Protoss visually really have nothing in common with the Tau that I can see. Aside from... reverse jointed feet?
Both are very similar to many Anime styles I have seen however. I bet the Protoss took some inspiration from various anime aliens.
The probes look a lot like the drones, without the gun attachments, at least in the original game which I'm mostly drawing from here.
The skin texture and head shape were more similar for the basic units at least, though Fenix and Tassadar did have more unique looking portraits that differentiated a lot.
The Ethereals remind me a lot of the High Templars, where they aren't really there for combat reasons as much as they are there for their powers, although there are exceptions in both.
They had the whole Conclave thing (controlled by the Judicator Caste, a group not dissimilar from the Ethereal Caste) , and the entire civilization worked kind of for the greater good of it... Not to mention the entire rogue Dark Templar story being somewhat reminiscent of the Farsight Enclave.
Plus it doesn't hurt that there was that dynamic of Space Marines, Tyranids, and Tau to line up with Terran, Zerg, and Protoss.
Starcraft is actually ripping off 40k. It was actually originally going to be a 40k game, but GW backed out of the deal. Blizzard then salvaged it and made Starcraft(and Warcraft).
Ripping off, and drawing inspiration are two very different things, and when it comes to these two games I'd say it's the latter and not the former.
However, I did look something up, and it was actually Warcraft that was supposed to be the Warhammer style game. Starcraft came out later, in 1998, but the Tau were not released until 2001. So the fact that neither the Tau, nor the Tyranids, have Fantasy Battle analogues, unlike all the other races, and there's a history of Blizzard and GW having serious interaction in the past, it probably lends more credence to my view that the Protoss and Tau are reasonably related.
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Possibly, but that doesn't mean they both aren't drawn from anime.
To say either 40k or Starcraft/Warcraft are original settings would be utterly false.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Prepare yourself, when the new codex drops, a whole new level of Tau hate will be coming your way.
It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies.
Grey Templar wrote: Possibly, but that doesn't mean they both aren't drawn from anime.
To say either 40k or Starcraft/Warcraft are original settings would be utterly false.
Well yes, that is true, however, the more digging I'm doing, the less it sounds like they're drawn from anime as a whole, but rather their influences come from completely different places:
The Tau Infantry models, according to sculptor Jes Goodwin, were designed to have subtle influences taken from Chinese foot soldiers. The Battlesuits and vehicles drew from science fiction exo-suits,[1] and were designed to slightly resemble a faster and more lightweight version of the Space Marine Dreadnought. While the Tau vehicles are 'skimmers', the design brief specified that the Tau Tanks have an impression of being heavier and more solid than the Eldar Grav-tanks while nowhere near as solid as some of the more heavily armed vehicles like those owned by the Orks or the Chaos Space Marines.
in fact, I also found this:
Which is a Mech Warrior thing published in 1997 by a USA and German company.
Edit: I want to make it clear though, I'm not saying they're completely devoid of anime influences, but I am saying that's really no where near their main influence.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/08 20:29:57
You know, its not just the tau that get hate right? I promise your at for every faction there is vocal group that dislikes them whether its because of the inspiring source, the actual fluff, or easily abusable game mechanics.
I get that you play tau and may have been on the receiving end of some of the hate, but you either gotta let it roll of your back or remove yourself from the situation where you're catching flak over plastic alien soldiers. My two cents atleast.
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You know Anime stretches back way longer than that right?
Manga had the giant piloted robot concept as early as the 50s and 60s. Well ahead of Mech Warrior and Battletech. And it was popularized in the 70s with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazinger_Z
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Ir0njack wrote: You know, its not just the tau that get hate right? I promise your at for every faction there is vocal group that dislikes them whether its because of the inspiring source, the actual fluff, or easily abusable game mechanics.
I get that you play tau and may have been on the receiving end of some of the hate, but you either gotta let it roll of your back or remove yourself from the situation where you're catching flak over plastic alien soldiers. My two cents atleast.
Or you can revel in it. Show them no mercy and laugh. I'm sick of my friends (the ones who suck at 40k) claiming my Tau are OP. It got to the point where I was taking nothing but FW, crappy Pathfinders, Devlfish Transport spam, and spamming XV88 with the crappy Rail Rifle that couldn't even inflict a dent on his Leman Rus. i still won the game. Because I did the objectives. I'm so so so sick of people complaining its my army instead of getting good. So now I just crush everyone and watch them flail around helplessly and whine. It's amusing. When I try and offer constructive criticism they never take it. So they never get good. I'm beginning ti suspect that calling out certain factions as OP or UP is covering up for a lack of skill on the person in question. Now does that mean there are not OP and UP factions? No. There definitely are, but the unskilled are the ones who are least capable of telling which ones are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/08 20:40:39
They came out in 2001. The death times of good anime coming to the west and being on TV. Oh sure there were exceptions but anime quality deteriorated overall.
Also Cartoons in general started to die off then. Sad Times.
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