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he has gate base?

that changes everything

I wouldn't necessarily call him OP (he's really only OP in a Centstar, and even then it's the Centurions that are the good part, Draigo is just a perfect force multiplier for them), but he's very good. He's pretty much the best combat character in the game. 1v1 there are a few models that have a tiny statistical edge over him, so long as they have Eternal Warrior, but against basically anything that doesn't have Eternal Warrior he will wreck them. He can potentially solo Imperial Knights and Wraithknights if he rolls well. Combine that with build-in Gate of Infinity, he's perfect for any unit that has good shooting to jump around the board at will and kill stuff. Just so happens that Centurions have devastatingly brutal shooting, can get basically guaranteed access to Invisibility to become super durable, and conveniently need something to help their mobility (which is where Draigo comes in).



Otherwise, Dreadknights are solid (but they're so fragile that if you're having trouble dealing with them, you're doing something wrong), and... that's about it. The rest of the codex is somewhere between terrible and usable. Librarians can get some funny Sanctic Daemonology abuse, but it's expensive and simply not as good as, say, Tigirius with Invisibility.

ah ok.

what about draigo in a CC guard blob?

just curious

The problem with grey knights is that the dread knight is too cheap that it makes the rest of the army look meh in comparison. That's why you'll see at least 2 no matter what size game you're in. Correctly price it and you'll actually see that the codex is actually pretty good just the go to option kinda blinds you from the rest

 total0 wrote:
The problem with grey knights is that the dread knight is too cheap that it makes the rest of the army look meh in comparison. That's why you'll see at least 2 no matter what size game you're in. Correctly price it and you'll actually see that the codex is actually pretty good just the go to option kinda blinds you from the rest

Give us any other HS choice worth to mention and we'll talk. 450 hardly a cheap choice when one of two will die to first turn focus very often.

Gk are great to play casualy but comp play makes em invalid due the way meta is with msu or just sick amount of dweps grav or plain ap2, cullexus isn't fun too.

Grubass wrote:

 total0 wrote:
The problem with grey knights is that the dread knight is too cheap that it makes the rest of the army look meh in comparison. That's why you'll see at least 2 no matter what size game you're in. Correctly price it and you'll actually see that the codex is actually pretty good just the go to option kinda blinds you from the rest

Give us any other HS choice worth to mention and we'll talk. 450 hardly a cheap choice when one of two will die to first turn focus very often.

Gk are great to play casualy but comp play makes em invalid due the way meta is with msu or just sick amount of dweps grav or plain ap2, cullexus isn't fun too.

450 for 2 is too cheap, especially for how good they are. I see you're with the majority with it being "the only viable build" to include massed dk in your list

Nope I tend to run double storm with purifiers. What I want to say there's no other choice for heavy atm cause purgation being so meh. Give us another heavy option and I deffo gonna roll with it.

They're only meh because the dk is too good, if you didn't have the dk then things would be different, if anything better as it would mean every gk list wouldn't be the same

 vipoid wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I too have been playing them since 3rd, first as a cautious Water Warrior, then later as an aggressive Ghostwing. All I did when the newest codex came out was put Mordrak and his Ghost Knights on the shelf, and dust off Draigo.

SJ

Out of interest, what does your army look like?

My core army is:

HQ. PML3 Librarian w/ Liber, Stormbolter, Warlord, rolling on Sanctic

Troop. 10man GKT w/ Psycannons, Hammers, Falchions

Fast. 5man Interceptor Squad w/ Incinerator, Hammer

Heavy. NDK w/ Sword, Psycannon, Incinerator

Heavy. NDK w/ Hammer, Psycannon, Psilencer

LoW. Draigo

1500pts, 19 models. To this I can add other GK or allies, such as a Knight Errant at 1850pts.

SJ

How do find the Psilencer on the DK?

 vipoid wrote:
How do find the Psilencer on the DK?

It's a great second weapon to have on your second NDK, as it kills Riptides and other multi-wound/medium Toughness model on a single failed armor save. It's useless versus monsters like WraithKnights, but so is the Incinerator. This is why I also pair it with a Daemonhammer instead of a Great Sword, for the concussion.

SJ

The thing is make the dread knight more expensive and you just won't see heavy Support being used.
Dread knights in my experience hate going against any army which spams ap2 so funnily enough my csm do ok versus them lol

NDKs use to be more expensive, and the Heavy Psycannon was garbage, do the common load out was Great Sword, Heavy Incinerator, and Personal Teleporter. It was only after they dropped the price for the PT AND made the H Psycannon useful that we started putting two ranged weapons on them. The 225 points we pay today use to be 305 points, 255 shoutout the Psycannon.

SJ

 total0 wrote:
They're only meh because the dk is too good, if you didn't have the dk then things would be different, if anything better as it would mean every gk list wouldn't be the same

No, Purgation squads are bad because they're bad.

If we didn't have the DK, we'd never use our HS slots. Every other option is flat out terrible. We'd just take more terminators.

Purgation squads are supposed to be Devastator squads, but their longest ranged weapon(and only good option) is a range 24 Salvo weapon. They're gonna spend 2 turns getting into a good position, and by then it doesn't matter.

The DK is just fine as it is. Its 225 points because you basically MUST take several upgrades for it to function. And unlike all the other MCs it has to fly into the teeth of all weapons designed to kill it. Wraith Knights and Riptides can completely avoid melta, plasma, and grav. The DK has to wade through those before it can get into melee.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 total0 wrote:
They're only meh because the dk is too good, if you didn't have the dk then things would be different, if anything better as it would mean every gk list wouldn't be the same

No, Purgation squads are bad because they're bad.

If we didn't have the DK, we'd never use our HS slots. Every other option is flat out terrible. We'd just take more terminators.

Purgation squads are supposed to be Devastator squads, but their longest ranged weapon(and only good option) is a range 24 Salvo weapon. They're gonna spend 2 turns getting into a good position, and by then it doesn't matter.

The DK is just fine as it is. Its 225 points because you basically MUST take several upgrades for it to function. And unlike all the other MCs it has to fly into the teeth of all weapons designed to kill it. Wraith Knights and Riptides can completely avoid melta, plasma, and grav. The DK has to wade through those before it can get into melee.

Couldn't put it better myself. Purgation Sq are just an effort to make gk long range support going terribly bad, small range hardly any heavy weapons to choose from, no way to deliver em the way they can matter turn 1-2 and no rhino hardly suffice and no stormraven seats are taken by purifiers or termos. However letting em have some of devastator loudouts (no not grav) would make us reconsider dropping an dk for em.

225 average point price is ok for the fact you get an Mc which gonna be walking target for whole game, and as was said needs to get close to do anything.

I wouldn't say they are overpowered. They are good, thats for sure.

You seem them a lot in mixed list usually because they have some really cool trick that can be useful to almost any army, GK or not.

Plus, with an alternated color scheme (IMO). they look soooooooo good.

Best looking TDA in the game.

SJ

Anyone tried purgation squads maxed out on incinerators and deep striking them as part of a purifier supported alpha strike?

In my codex they both don't have ds rule. However I may have missed . And I totaly hate packing em into pods cause so bland and boring.

Knew purifiers didn't but I thought purgations did. That was the only use I could think for them and to be fair even that wouldn't be massively effective. Yeah they really are useless aren't they?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not only are Grey Knights not OP they're barely even competitive.

Allow em take multi melta and add DS and I'll find a couple of uses Purgation squads just need more decent dakka

Only if you give them Relentless as well. Deep Striking heavy weapons are pretty useless.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Only if you give them Relentless as well. Deep Striking heavy weapons are pretty useless.

Touchè my Lord

They should give them back astral aim to purgation squads (instead of the effectively useless night vision) and change it to double the range of their weapons if they remain stationary that turn (or in the case of incinerators grant them the torrent special rule). Maybe throw in Deep Strike or Scout for some mobility options and that way they can at least touch things across the board. I always felt that the psilencers should have AP2-3 since Grey Knights already have an overabundance of anti-infantry with incinerators and psycannons, this way they can punch through the annoying armour of tougher monstrous creatures to make it less of a guessing game to see if you can get the force through while also justifying the heavy characteristic on the gun.

Psilencers should wound on a 4+, unless able to wound on better roll from being S4, like it use to be. Purgation Squads should be Slow and Purposeful, with the ability to double their range or to torrent if they remain stationary. Strikers should be Interceptors and have cheap locator beacons. All PA GK should be able to Deep Strike. Paladins should be 44ppm. GK Dreadnoughts should have Venerable stats and be Librarians. Add Drop Pods to the Dedicated Transport and Fast selection lists. Those simple fixes fix the bad in the codex.

SJ

*Le sigh*

Nah pods aren't rly needed just add inquisition back into gk codex and we would be golden. Dread just need to be updated to c sm standard and allow using fw stuff. Pagk are fine without ds rule anyway so does the strike is fine for what they are. Paladins Umm imho just let em be pricey but remake them for something unique.

Does First to the Fray work for Gate of Infinity?

I'm liking my NDKs so far - they are great for dealing with Hordes with the Incinerator and can murder tanks and MCs with the Sword/Hammer/Psycannon.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Does First to the Fray work for Gate of Infinity?

I'm liking my NDKs so far - they are great for dealing with Hordes with the Incinerator and can murder tanks and MCs with the Sword/Hammer/Psycannon.

Depends on who you ask. By my interpretation it totally does.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Psilencers should wound on a 4+, unless able to wound on better roll from being S4, like it use to be. Purgation Squads should be Slow and Purposeful, with the ability to double their range or to torrent if they remain stationary. Strikers should be Interceptors and have cheap locator beacons. All PA GK should be able to Deep Strike. Paladins should be 44ppm. GK Dreadnoughts should have Venerable stats and be Librarians. Add Drop Pods to the Dedicated Transport and Fast selection lists. Those simple fixes fix the bad in the codex.

Feth that, if everyone's getting free transports and D-weapons I want to be able to assault out of deep strike