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Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

I enjoy collecting and sometimes playing various space/sci-fi fleet games, and I'd like to get folks opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of each of the games, and what their overall opinion is the best of them.

Currently, I have or am interested in collecting (* = have)

Star Wars Armada* = needs more ships, ties suck but Imperial ships are otherwise awesome
X-Wing* = love it all around, came to it from playing Wings of War
Star Trek Attack Wing* = probably would have been better if it used Armada rules, seems like there's too many dice/actions thrown around; I've only played one game so far
Battleship Galaxies* = wish there were more expansions
Battlefleet Gothic* = only have the base game, have never had the chance to actually play
Sky Galleons of Mars* = have the game, love the fluff, never played it
Leviathans* = needs more ship variety
Halo: Fleet Battles = want, how well does it play?
Firestorm Armada = want to know more about this
Dystopian Wars = want to know more

I'm sure there are others I have missed - tell me about them!

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Full Thrust - it's free, and it's generic, so it can do all of the above, and more. (there's a few fan-made expansions around too, which add extra tweaks, features and systems not in the core game).

I've seen fleet lists for Star Wars, Star Trek and Babylon 5, and if you don't like them, it's got a complete design system so you can do your own stats (or simply scratchbuild ships; I've seen fleets made from spare Tyranid weapons, Rawlplugs and other DIY supplies and sheet balsa wood and dried pulses and even one guy using dried cicada husks! ).

Dystopian Wars (1st edition) and Firestorm Armada (1st edition) basically took the shooting mechanics from Full Thrust and made them more complicated. I don't know how the latest editions have changed things. Dystopian Wars was interesting in that the air, land and sea combat was basically all the one game, so you could play out a steampunk D-Day if you wanted.

There's also Attack Vector from Ad Astra Games - it's a hex boardgame, although miniatures are available. It's fully 3D and uses proper "Newtonian" vector movement (even down to your ship's acceleration changing as you expend reaction mass). It looks terrifyingly complicated, but once you actually sit down and try it out, it's much more intuitive than you'd think. It might not count as a "fleet" battle - two or three ships a side, and no fighters.

They also do another game, Squadron Strike, which is more "Hollywood"; you can make the ship movement as cinematic or realistic as you like (and mix and match different movement modes in the one game), and again, design your own ships (although it requires a rather complicated Excel spreadsheet to do the maths in the background).
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

I picked up the Halo core game but haven't played it yet. One moderately annoying thing spartan games has revealed since is that they're adopting an xwing style card update system where every pack (with the same minis as the starter) comes with different cards. If you buy the starter you get X squadrons and A commander, if you buy the booster packs you get Y squadrons and B commander, and if you get the mono fleet pack you get Z squadrons and C commander. I didn't like that in xwing but the packs were $15, not $35-80 like in Halo. The minis are nice though and the rules seem good from just a read through.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





I can answer you for Halo Fleet Battles and Firestorm Armada, since I'm playing them.

Firestom Armada has changed quite a bit since 1er edition. Rules are more streamlined and the fleets are quite balanced. It still goes into details and is more akind to a "skirmish game" but to a spaceship scale.

Halo Fleet Battles is more about huge armadas fighting each other. A single base can have several ships - it works as formations, that are showed on cards attached to the base. For now, we don't really know if they will go the FFG way. The game just launched and we only have "the core things". There are no separate cards for pilots or equipment - only the formations, commanders and "special heroes". They aren't many, unlike FFG's X Wing.

Both games are good, in a different way. They can give you a lot of fun, IMHO.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Also, this discussion wouldn't be complete without mentioning Dropfleet Commander (??) which should be hitting Kickstarter soon.

It has the pedigree of being a collaboration between an incredible "old-school" game designer in Andy Chambers, and the new-school David Lewis who has absolutely killed it with DzC.

The few mechanics discussed/shown so far look great.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Lawrenceville, New Jersey, USA

Our group has played Battlefleet Gothic. We enjoy it but find that the game too too dependent on ordinance as well as being decided in the first two turns of shooting. I find that escorts die way too easily and that generally you are better served using cruiser sized hulls.

We are now building for Firestorm armada as well as dystopian wars. I find the greater number of factions allows for finding a fleet that truly fits your play style and that the rules are a little easier to follow and not as bogged down in extra rules and dice rolls.

Those are just my 2 cents anyways.

The black rage is within us all. Lies offer no shield against the inevitable. You speak of donning the black of duty for the red of brotherhood; but it is the black of rage you shall wear when the darkness comes for you. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Virginia, USA

I've played Battlefleet gothic many times and it is a fun beer and pretzels game. Much like other GW games, don't go into it expecting much balance and you'll be fine. Some of the fan made mods are much better (such as BFGR) balanced though.

Full Thrust is a fun game system, but I often feel like it could use more detail. I've probably played several hundred games all told, but I've moved on to other (more detailed) systems.

Firestorm Armada is way to slow : ) I'm a much bigger fan of the new Halo game. I like to be able to play a game in a 1-2 hour period and Halo fits that bill perfectly. At the moment it's still a little hard to tell how balanced the two factions are (and I'm hoping for more of them), but it's pretty detailed and still plays fast.

My favorite system is Starmada by MJ12 games. It's a design your own game system (much like full thrust), but with much more detail. It's a lot of fun to run a Klingon war fleet against Babylon 5 Centauri, a BFG Tyranid fleet or Dystopian Wars British. It also allows you to pull in other people who have fleets for other games, but don't want to buy into a new miniature range.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

A Call to Arms: Babylon 5 (2nd edition) is a good fun game - has some issues with balance but that not unusual.

Loads of variety in ships and fleets, similar to Battlefleet Gothic in many ways except its move one ship , they move one ship unitll all are done then firing follows the same pattern (unless of course you ar Dilgar )

There are newer versions of the system : Noble Armada and Star Fleet- not as good in my view but still ok

I love crossover games as well



I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






The three different universes A Call To Arms was used for all tweak the rules in different ways; Star Fleet Battles (not quite Star Trek, it starts with the original 60s series then develops in a very different way to the canon) obviously introduces shields, and Noble Armada is very keen on boarding actions, as befits the setting.

Duskland, I agree that FT is a little light on "chrome", but that's what I like about it. At the end of the day, a phaser array, turbolaser battery, neutron laser or whatever, all work the same way - a shiny line appears onscreen and causes an explosion. The game's long overdue for a 3rd edition, and various fan groups have taken the game in a few different directions.

Full Thrust lets me get on with the important things - moving toys around and rolling dice - without worrying about whether this ship is the one that gets re-rolls or if that one can regenerate shields, etc. Before X-Wing came out, I statted up all the Episode 4-6 fighters as FT starships, and had a couple of big battles. It worked really well, IMO.

I once also played a game where one fleet was escorting a freighter convoy that started out in orbit around a planet in one corner, while the enemy arrived in the opposite corner and tried to stop them. We were using the vector movement rules, so the freighters just piled on the gas and tried to sprint for the jump point while the attackers tried to catch them in their firing arcs and match velocities. We used a big sheet of black paper and plotted the movements with silver marker pens; there were some [i]very/i] odd paths!
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie






Colonial Battlefleet seems popular in some online circles. It uses hexes, though.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut





UK

If you are up for some more boardgame-y (and OOP) stuff you could look at

Renegade Legion: Leviathan from FASA which I had a fair amount of fun with back in the day

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/10467/renegade-legion-leviathan

and at a figher scale rather than full fleet

Silent Death by Iron Crown Enterprises (now licenced to Metal Express)

http://www.metal-express.net/what-is-silent-death

again fairly fun

 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Can someone explain in a bit more detail what Starmada and Full Thrust are about? As in rules wise, what they are like, what size game, what level of detail they capture on the ships themselves, etc. etc. etc.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:If you are up for some more boardgame-y (and OOP) stuff you could look at

Renegade Legion: Leviathan from FASA which I had a fair amount of fun with back in the day

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/10467/renegade-legion-leviathan

and at a figher scale rather than full fleet

Silent Death by Iron Crown Enterprises (now licenced to Metal Express)

http://www.metal-express.net/what-is-silent-death

again fairly fun


I've actually got both of those - played a few enjoyable games of Renegade Legion, but never managed to rope anyone into Silent Death. It does look like a dirt-simple-yet-fun system.

chaos0xomega wrote:Can someone explain in a bit more detail what Starmada and Full Thrust are about? As in rules wise, what they are like, what size game, what level of detail they capture on the ships themselves, etc. etc. etc.


I'm curious about both as well - are they also still in print?

It never ends well 
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 warboss wrote:
I picked up the Halo core game but haven't played it yet. One moderately annoying thing spartan games has revealed since is that they're adopting an xwing style card update system where every pack (with the same minis as the starter) comes with different cards. If you buy the starter you get X squadrons and A commander, if you buy the booster packs you get Y squadrons and B commander, and if you get the mono fleet pack you get Z squadrons and C commander. I didn't like that in xwing but the packs were $15, not $35-80 like in Halo. The minis are nice though and the rules seem good from just a read through.


Damn. That in itself is enough to keep me away - and I'd been interested in giving this a look.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Full Thrust might be in print, but if not the books are available as PDFs from Ground Zero Games (www.gzg.com, I think).

You've got:
Full Thrust (the core rules)
More Thrust (expansion, but almost totally obsolete due to the Fleet Books)
Fleet Book 1 (stats for the first four human fleets that GZG did miniatures for, a new ship design system, tweaks to some rules and a new vector movement system)
Fleet Book 2 (stats for the three alien fleets, and additions to the ship design system to include their unique weapons and systems).

In my experience, the game handles a dozen or so ships; fewer, and there's not enough going on to make an interesting game, more and it gets unwieldy.

Ships range from corvettes half an inch long with three or four damage points to 6"-long or more superdreadnoughts with a hundred or so (officially, that is - there's no real limit in the design rules).


Movement is pre-plotted; at the start of the turn, for each ship you write down a movement order, saying how much it will accelerate/decelerate by, and if it will turn (something like speed +3, S3, although the precise notation isn't important; that's increase speed by 3"/turn and turn 3 clockface points to starboard). Movement is done using a 12-point "clockface" while fire arcs are in six equal arcs; Front is 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock, Starboard front is 1 to 3, Starboard rear is 3 to 5, etc. If your ships are on 6- or 12-sided bases this is easy to visualise, although not necessary; all measurements are to and from the supporting pole anyway.

Once you've written movement orders for your fleet, you launch fighters, torpedoes, missile salvoes, that sort of thing. Then all ships move simultaneously. There's no such thing as an accidental collision, and even deliberate collisions are difficult to do, if at all. Once the ships have moved, you check to see if any missiles or fighter groups are close enough to enemy ships to attack. Then you do shooting; by the book it alternates between ships on each side, although I think we've always just counted it as simultaneous - if a ship gets destroyed it can still attack that turn.

Most shooting is a matter of counting up how many attack dice you get and rolling them. 4 or 5 is one hit, 6 is two hits and you roll another die; keep doing that as long as you roll sixes. The target ship ticks off damage boxes. The damage boxes are organised in four equal rows; when you get to the end of a row, you make a "threshold check" for each system (weapons, engines, launch bays, fire controls, point defence, etc) to see if it's knocked offline. When you run out of damage boxes, you're dead.

Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty quick. The writing of orders doesn't take any longer, IME, than fiddling with the dials in X-Wing or Star Wars: Armada.

As well as basic beam weapons (which lose attack dice as the range increases), you've got:
pulse torpedoes: short-ranged, with a to-hit roll that gets harder the more the range increases, but always do the same damage if they hit (D6 damage points).
salvo missiles: launched and positioned before ships move, so you need to have a good eye for where you think the enemy will end up. If you position them right, a salvo of six missiles homes in on an enemy ship. That ship can try to shoot them down with point defense fire (as can nearby friendly fighters), and any that make it through do D6 damage points each - a couple of well-placed salvoes can gut a battleship.
Fighters - they're launched from carriers and move before big ships, like missiles. However, they stay out on the board, and can make a numberof attacks before having to land and re-arm/refuel. They can also attack each other.
Point defence batteries, which can only be used to shoot down attacking fighters and missiles.
shields, which reduce the effectiveness of beam weapon damage dice (l1 shields mean that 4s don't hit; l2 shields mean that 5s don't hit and 6s only get one hit, although they stil get re-rolls)

The first Fleet Book has four fleets, each one of the original spaceship ranges from GZG;
The New Anglian Confederation - English-speaking North America, the UK and some other conquests, and their colony planets, all under the British crown - your bog-standard "generalist" fleet, with plenty of medium-weight beam weapons and shielded ships

The Federal Stats Europa - the western and southern European states - France, Spain, Italy, Greece, etc. They have large, fast ships with heavy missile armaments.

The Neu Swabian League - Central and Eastern Europe; mostly Germany, Austria, etc. Slow, massively armoured ships with heavy armament.

The Eurasian Solar Union - Russia, the ex-Warsaw Pact states and China - Their ships tend to feature fewer, larger beam weapons, and their superdreadnought mounts the largest beam weapon in the official fleet lists

Fleet Book 2 adds three alien races:
The Kra'Vak - aggressive warrior aliens who look nothing at all like the Predator. Their ships have advanced drives so they're more manoeuvrable than a human ship of the same overall thrust (basic drives can only use half their thrust rating to turn; advanced drives can use the full rating). They use railguns rather than beams or missiles (these have a to-hit roll like a pulse torpedo, although are longer-ranged, and do a fixed amount of damage if they hit, ignoring shields and punching through armour).
The Sa'Vasku - a fleet of living ships. These ships also have advanced drives, and can regenerate lost hull points.
The Phalon - roughly equivalent to humans in technology, although they use organic technology (unlike the Sa'Vasku, their ships aren't living, just made from organic materials). Their signature weapon is the plasma bolt, which fires like a missile salvo then explodes, damaging all nearby ships.

Since the publication of those books in 1998-2000, a few other fleets have been added; the UN Space Command, Japanese, New Israeli, Islamic Confederation, Scandinavian and new fleets for the original four human fleets.There are unofficial stats for all of those (and a few new systems) floating about the internet.

Of course, you can make up your own ships and fleets (even combining the four different technologies, although it advises against it). The owner of the Starship Combat News website used to put on big participation games at GenCon featuring the Star Wars Galactic Empire vs the Federation, Colonial Battlestars and the like.


There are a few flaws; firstly, the official points value system tends to under-cost large ships, although there's a suggested fix. If you're using home-designed fleets, it's probably worth checking with your opponent; some combinations will lead to unbalanced battles. The rules for fighters are a perennial issue, too; if one fleet loads up on fighters, they'll either totally dominate (if the number of fighters overwhelms the enemy's point defence fire) or get crushed (if they don't). Either way, it can lead to a rather one-sided game if you're not careful.
   
 
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