Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So guys I'm looking into make a nurgle CSM army. Death Guard list.

Looking at something like this (mostly fun learning games with 1500 points)
* if I make a mistake with points or something just point it out to me please.


1500 pt list:

HQ:
Typhus 230 points

Troops:
10 Plague Marines 2/ plasma guns 1/ melta bomb 275 points
10 Plague Marines 2/ plasma guns 1/ melta bomb 275 points
10 Plague Marines 2/ Melta guns 1/ melta bomb 265 points
3 Rhino's for squads 105 points
20 Cultist *(plague zombies) 90 points
20 Cultist *(plague zombies) 90 points

Fast Attack:
Helldrake 170 points


So this is 1500 points on the nose. I've currently only got a couple things on this list so I wanted to know if it is okay and correct for 1500 point games before I buy the models etc.
From my research the death guard plague marines are tough as nails infantry that can take a lot of punshiment and deal a lot in return. Also the plague zombies while limited in their attacking are good at slogging down units, or holding objectives since they give up their ranged attacks for extra saves. So it makes them into a decent meat wall.

So idea is to tie up close objectives with the zombies, use the 3 squads in the rhinos to advance the line, tie up units with them if need be, use their toughness to best effect. Advance Typhus in behind one of the rhino's for cover, then get him into close range with a unit, or their HQ. He has stupid good saves and he is very well rounded ability wise with powers etc.

Hell drake... well that is just a silly question, why not a hell drake. Don't know which would be better in this size game though, the cannon or the flamer.


So ideas and opinions?
thanks!

Flamer, always the flamer...

MitchellTyner wrote:
So guys I'm looking into make a nurgle CSM army. Death Guard list.

Looking at something like this (mostly fun learning games with 1500 points)
* if I make a mistake with points or something just point it out to me please.


1500 pt list:

HQ:
Typhus 230 points

Troops:
10 Plague Marines 2/ plasma guns 1/ melta bomb 275 points
10 Plague Marines 2/ plasma guns 1/ melta bomb 275 points
10 Plague Marines 2/ Melta guns 1/ melta bomb 265 points
3 Rhino's for squads 105 points
20 Cultist *(plague zombies) 90 points
20 Cultist *(plague zombies) 90 points

Fast Attack:
Helldrake 170 points


So this is 1500 points on the nose. I've currently only got a couple things on this list so I wanted to know if it is okay and correct for 1500 point games before I buy the models etc.
From my research the death guard plague marines are tough as nails infantry that can take a lot of punshiment and deal a lot in return. Also the plague zombies while limited in their attacking are good at slogging down units, or holding objectives since they give up their ranged attacks for extra saves. So it makes them into a decent meat wall.

So idea is to tie up close objectives with the zombies, use the 3 squads in the rhinos to advance the line, tie up units with them if need be, use their toughness to best effect. Advance Typhus in behind one of the rhino's for cover, then get him into close range with a unit, or their HQ. He has stupid good saves and he is very well rounded ability wise with powers etc.

Hell drake... well that is just a silly question, why not a hell drake. Don't know which would be better in this size game though, the cannon or the flamer.


So ideas and opinions?
thanks!

Honestly, I just don't see your potential list as being nearly flexible enough to handle the way the game has evolved in 7th... Between Malestrom missions and the disparity between the 6th ed vs. 7th & especially 7.5 edition codices, your list right now is too ponderous to do much of anything.

Typhus for example is a terrible HQ option right now. All you're really getting out of him is a massive tax in order to get less than 200pts worth of slower but slightly more resilient Cultists... Compare him to a Chaos Lord w/Mark of Nurgle, Power fist + Lightning claw and riding a Bike.
The latter gives you solid speed, a T6 Warlord, and is highly adaptable in assaults. The only thing he's losing out on is a 2+ save and a pair of crappy Nurgle psychic powers.

Likewise your Plaguemarines. 10 is simply too many per squad. Their biggest advantage they bring right now is that they're among the most resilient & effective MSU capable units in the game! 5 guys get the same access to special weapons as 10, and between their higher toughness and FnP, they're typically able to weather the same amount of small arms fire as a squad of 10 basic Chaos Marines.
Being able to stick to 5 men also means you have more pts to spend on other toys, while in game you end up drastically limiting the effectiveness of your opponent's shooting potential. (since they'll earn much less of a return by spending 2-3 units in order to wipe out just 5 guys as compared to 7-10! )

Other things to look into to give your list more flexibility;
1) Chaos Sorcerer.
One thing we actually do have going for us is the potential to run a really strong Psychic phase. Not many armies can field a powerful Lv3 Psyker for only 110pts! Their only downside is that our Sorcerers are much better off never taking a mark of Chaos, as that way we can dump all of our powers into the likes of Biomancy or the extremely powerful Telepathy lores.

2) Daemon Prince of Nurgle.
Give him wings and the Black Mace and go beat the living snotballs out of anything short of a super heavy or gargantuan creature!

3) Nurgle Bikers.
T6 bikes are simply amazaballs. Again, keep them cheap at 3-4 per squad, as right now CSM's are so badly behind everyone else that we're pretty much forced to play MSU to stand any kind of a chance in games. These guys are solid platforms for your Meltaguns, as their speed gives them great range and threat potential.

4) Chaos Spawn.
A real hidden gem of our codex. Units of 3 are great for acting as tarpits, while 1-2 can play the role of speed bump to delay an opposing unit.

5) Obliterators.
With the Mark of Nurgle these guys as completely boss at T5. A greatly flexible unit that is a shooting toolbox, and can help to cover any deficiencies in your shooting phase.

6) Havocs w/4x Autocannon.
A decent unit option that can stay in the backfield and reliably pick off light to medium vehicles, and/or provide some ability to take out 4+ save units better than Bolter can, without waisting special weapon shot such as Plasma or Meltaguns.



The biggest thing to keep in mind though is to simply accept that Chaos Marines are in a horrible position right now... Anything we can do, everyone else does better and/or much cheaper that we can. Hence why the vast majority of Chaos lists aim towards putting as many small units (aka MSU) as possible on the table.

Nurgle however is easily the best at this, as the higher toughness allows them to really soak up the punishment!

^^^ Sad but true. I love my nurgle force but have been recently been toying with noise marines in addition to my nurgle force. Min squads have access to Blastmasters 48', AP3, Ignores Cover, Blast? Hell yeah! You could always paint them up nurgly and say they hawk flem across the battlefield?

Other than that I agree with much of the above. Spawn are great, Plagues are run at min squads with two special weps, Chaos Lord/Sorcerer > Typhus (usually)

There is still some fun stuff there though, like the Huron/Cypher infiltration trick or the Helbrute dataslates, but CSM is in desperate need of a new dex. Honestly, just have fun with it

Thanks guys that is the kind of info I was looking for. Here is the skinny though. I already have typhus, just because I really love his model. But also want to maybe get a deamon prince as well. Probably will get a sorcerer from FW as well when I order the plague marines.

So what would be the optimum number of 5 man squads of P.Marines to run? Rhino transport or not?

Pretty much all is variable in this list as I haven't purchased anything other than the typhus yet. Though I did buy a chaos side of the dark vengence box set, and also got a deal on 5 extra D.V. hellbrutes and a couple chosen aspiring champions. Other than that, I have nothing really. But I really do want to run at least one helldrake. I mean I've always abso-freaking-lutely loved that model.

So go with some bikes as well then huh, I swear I always talked gak about SM bike list now I might have to get some bikes :(

wrong forum...

also you should msu the pm and spam as many meltas.

I wish you was in Chicago for me to sell you my Chaos Marines.

So the general discussion... is the wrong forum to discuss how to run an effective chaos space marines army? and if my idea of a list was that bad? I think it fits though.

Anyway, yeah seems to be the idea though with the MSU. but doesn't Chaos get a Codex this fall sometime?

It's rumored. Seen a number of people look to start Chaos only to be told to wait

 Filch wrote:
wrong forum...

also you should msu the pm and spam as many meltas.

I wish you was in Chicago for me to sell you my Chaos Marines.

I've got a dollar

Back to OP, unless you're playing competitive, buy the models that interest you. I'm not saying blow all your money on Possessed or anything (id advise against it) but if your meta is friendly youll be alright with Death Guard, even if the list isn't 100% optimal. I personally don't like bikes either, so I run spawn, if I ever have a spare fast attack slot Ill run one solo. Most people I see running MSU take a transport on everything, helps geth them where you need them and adds another target. (Dirgecasters if you plan on charging ever.

I would say waiting is the best idea but if that's what you want youre going to get it anyway. I like doing conversions and such so if I "mess up" on a buy I can rip it apart and make a new puzzle. Its chaos afterall!

If you ever take a rhino, always take a dozer blade, and more importantly, the havoc missle launcher.

The havoc launcher is easily the best thing in the Chaos codex right now

You might want to consider IA13 as well. Some good choices in there, it's just sad that it took a FW book to make CSM viable.

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
You might want to consider IA13 as well. Some good choices in there, it's just sad that it took a FW book to make CSM viable.

IA13? whats that?

as well did you guys say there was a hell brute supplement??? Even though they are the D.Vengeance set once, I got like 6 fore around 30 bucks. So if they are decent I can run those lol.

also I was looking at the havocs .. why are they like 10+ dollars more expensive than the devastator space marine squad? as well, how many autocannons does the box come with... i figure only 1... and I'm not seeing jack squat for parts on ebay.

Yeah helbrute have 3 formations:
Helcult: Helbrute uses two cultist squads as 3+ cover an the cultists gain fearless and zealot if the helbrute does
Mayhem Pack: Three helbrutes deepstrike in on the same roll (but are still separate units) and gain IWND. Every turn they have to roll on the crazed chart
Hellfist Murderpack: 5 helbrutes become a squadron, you must nominate one to be the champion who can issue/accept challeneges, gains a 5++, can be look out sir'd, and allows them to choose their crazed result (only the one who got shot that is)

Most people run the first but if you run typhus it's redundent. The second one is debatable in its effectiveness but I like it.
The last is very slow, use on smaller boards or get something to cast invisibility and load them up.

Why would the first be redundant if I run Typhus? I don't have to ungrade the cultist to zombies.. plus I already have 20 cultist thanks to the D.Vengeance box.

But the 1st one is only a single hellbrute then?

I kind of like the 2nd as well.

MitchellTyner wrote:

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
You might want to consider IA13 as well. Some good choices in there, it's just sad that it took a FW book to make CSM viable.

IA13? whats that?

as well did you guys say there was a hell brute supplement??? Even though they are the D.Vengeance set once, I got like 6 fore around 30 bucks. So if they are decent I can run those lol.

also I was looking at the havocs .. why are they like 10+ dollars more expensive than the devastator space marine squad? as well, how many autocannons does the box come with... i figure only 1... and I'm not seeing jack squat for parts on ebay.

IA13 = Imperial Armour vol.13
It's a Forgeworld book that adds rules for all of their Chaos vehicle line-up, as well as an army list for representing Renegades & Heretics, (aka: Traitor Imperial Guard), plus some additional formations for CSM armies.

As for Havocs being more expensive than the (second) plastic Devastators kit... Welcome to Chaos Marines! While everyone else gets new toys, we've sadly been left in the dust to rot.

We were unluckily among the 3 "loser" books of 4th edition that got nailed by Jervis's "brilliant" 'let's tone everyone down to -10 and simplify the living crap out of everything!' ideas... Hence, while we got some badly needed plastic kits, they were almost completely devoid of options, or even viable usability in the case of the Termie kit!
Then we were skipped over entirely in 5th edition, meaning that while most everyone else got a slew of new kits, CSM's along with Tau got nothing at all...

We simply are in desperate need of a near 100% model line overhaul to 'fill in the gaps' that no other army bar Sisters have to deal with. Until then, we're going to continue to be the game's worst army, since we lack any kind of flexibility in even our basic options.

Autocannon Havocs pretty much have to be scratch built. You get one mono-pose autocannon model with the current Havoc set, that looks old and crap.

My Autocannon Havocs came from an ebay lot, and had been scratch built out of a mixture of Space Wolves and Possessed. The autocannons themselves are I believe heavy bolters or assault cannons that have been given longer barrels (section of lance from chaos warrior bits) and dragon / gargoyle muzzles from chaos Predators / Rhinos.

Go for 5-man plague marine squads in rhinos. (10 is overkill)

Nurgle bikers and spawn are tough to kill (toughness 6) and in 7th edition its all about speed and both have 12" move.

Nurgle demon prince has shrouding so with jink has 2+ cover save (the best demon prince).

MitchellTyner wrote:
Why would the first be redundant if I run Typhus? I don't have to ungrade the cultist to zombies.. plus I already have 20 cultist thanks to the D.Vengeance box.

But the 1st one is only a single hellbrute then?

I kind of like the 2nd as well.

Fearless while the Helbrute is alive, gain Zealot when he dies**
Well if you did upgrade them to zombies, I wouldn't run the first. If you didn't run them as zombies but were running typhus id reconsider running them as zombies. T4 makes them a little harder to squash and I think they get feel no pain. They sacrifice shooting but you aren't going to kill much with autoguns.

The second is a lot of fun but is usually reserved for a rush list. Id advice bringing something fast and getting into your opponents deployment field. If you bring a few rhinos youll be fine, if not you can take some bikes or spawn, but rhinos would be the best. You need to give your opponent something else to shoot.

First is one helbrute, second is three, last is five.

 chaosmarauder wrote:
Go for 5-man plague marine squads in rhinos. (10 is overkill)

Nurgle bikers and spawn are tough to kill (toughness 6) and in 7th edition its all about speed and both have 12" move.

Nurgle demon prince has shrouding so with jink has 2+ cover save (the best demon prince).

So how exactly do you model a Nurgle Demon prince on a bike?

What would be a good amount of plague marine 5 man squads?

MitchellTyner wrote:
So the general discussion... is the wrong forum to discuss how to run an effective chaos space marines army? and if my idea of a list was that bad? I think it fits though.

Anyway, yeah seems to be the idea though with the MSU. but doesn't Chaos get a Codex this fall sometime?

This is done in the army list section of the forum.

if uou want strategy then find it in the tactics forum. Its also suggest what to buy mostly.

MitchellTyner wrote:

 chaosmarauder wrote:
Go for 5-man plague marine squads in rhinos. (10 is overkill)

Nurgle bikers and spawn are tough to kill (toughness 6) and in 7th edition its all about speed and both have 12" move.

Nurgle demon prince has shrouding so with jink has 2+ cover save (the best demon prince).

So how exactly do you model a Nurgle Demon prince on a bike?

What would be a good amount of plague marine 5 man squads?

The daemon Prince Jinks because he has wings and is a FMC, not because he is on a bike.

ah okay, didn't know FMC got jinks, so that awesome.