Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, Say a Walkrant or Gliding Hive Tyrant with the Acid Blood Biomorph Charge a unit and challenges the Character, my question is:

1) HoW at I10 is resolved against the Character, right? since challenges are declared before I10 ?
2) Acid blood says "the unit" not "the model" but I guess it's always resolved against the closest model... that in a challenge, that would be the Character?

1. Yes. I was also really impressed when an ooponent clarified this for me. My head was stuck in WHFB for years where impact hits would be randomized as shooting. But since the HoW has an initiative value and it is an extra attack, it is allocated to the challengee. Neat way to try and instant death the enemy character with an OOE before they get to strike due to having d3 of those, but still a sketchy tactic at best.

2. Closest model yes, but this doesn't have to be the character. Since there will be probably more than one enemy models in btb contact with a tyrant, I would say you randomize between those to see who gets the acid blood hit.

Hammer of wrath is before challenges. But if your in a challenge the acid will hit who your locked in with.

Deathmachine wrote:
Hammer of wrath is before challenges. But if your in a challenge the acid will hit who your locked in with.

No it is not. The HoW is described clearly as an additional attack the model makes at Initiative 10 and and base strength that autohits with AP-. Challenges happen before the initiative step even begins.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Deathmachine wrote:
Hammer of wrath is before challenges. But if your in a challenge the acid will hit who your locked in with.

No it is not. The HoW is described clearly as an additional attack the model makes at Initiative 10 and and base strength that autohits with AP-. Challenges happen before the initiative step even begins.

Exactly that. At the beggining of the Fight sub-phase challenges are declared and accepted/refused, then you start I10 step.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: about the Acid Blood. you interchange places to put the chalengers toghether, and some times even apart from the rest of the unit.

BUT, as the Hive Tyrant being only one model, the other enemy models can attack him (though the Tyrant only attacks the character) So... Acid Blood hits from the other models can/must? also be allocated to the challenged enemy?

Wallur wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Deathmachine wrote:
Hammer of wrath is before challenges. But if your in a challenge the acid will hit who your locked in with.

No it is not. The HoW is described clearly as an additional attack the model makes at Initiative 10 and and base strength that autohits with AP-. Challenges happen before the initiative step even begins.

Exactly that. At the beggining of the Fight sub-phase challenges are declared and accepted/refused, then you start I10 step.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: about the Acid Blood. you interchange places to put the chalengers toghether, and some times even apart from the rest of the unit.

BUT, as the Hive Tyrant being only one model, the other enemy models can attack him (though the Tyrant only attacks the character) So... Acid Blood hits from the other models can/must? also be allocated to the challenged enemy?

You do bring the challengers together, but then each model in its own ini step has the right to pile in and get in btb with the enemy. So you can have more models in btb with the Tyrant than just the chalengee. The Acid blood wounds hits the unit, not the model that inflicted the wound. This is pretty clear RAW. Attacks against a unit always target the closest model unless they are precision strikes. Since there are multiple "closest models" I would say randomize the wound.

Most of the time it doesn't have much difference, because wounds can carry in and out of the challenge anyways.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Most of the time it doesn't have much difference, because wounds can carry in and out of the challenge anyways.

From the Tyrant point of View, it's wounds can only be allocated to the rest of the unit ONLY after the challenge is over. Otherwise it's attacks must be done in the challenge. But as we said, Acid blood are not attacks, so I guess you are right about randomizing it if there is more than one model in base contact. (or anyone get to choose?)

Sweet that helps me. Thanks for making me check again.

So HOW happens at the start of the fight sub-phase. Challenges are issued before the start of the fight phase, after charge rolls are made.

Acid blood are wounds allocated to the unit that inflicted the wound, but the wording for fighting a challenge in pg. 102 is pretty specific "when rolling To Hit and To Wound, they always use the WS and T of their opponent and When Allocating Wounds they must be allocated to their opponent first.

It seems to me that even though Acid Blood hits the unit, because it happens in a challenge, the Challenge Rule modifies and forces the wound to be allocated the Challenge Opponent first, and then spill excess wounds into the overall unit.

 disdamn wrote:
So HOW happens at the start of the fight sub-phase. Challenges are issued before the start of the fight phase, after charge rolls are made.

ISSUING A CHALLENGE
-Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any blows are struck.
-HoW happens at I10 (after the Fight sub-phase).
They are still one after the other. No doubt about that)

 disdamn wrote:
Acid blood are wounds allocated to the unit that inflicted the wound, but the wording for fighting a challenge in pg. 102 is pretty specific "when rolling To Hit and To Wound, they always use the WS and T of their opponent and When Allocating Wounds they must be allocated to their opponent first.

It seems to me that even though Acid Blood hits the unit, because it happens in a challenge, the Challenge Rule modifies and forces the wound to be allocated the Challenge Opponent first, and then spill excess wounds into the overall unit.

You, it's seems you are right about that... re reading the rules, it never says "Attacks" it just sayd "Rolling to Hit and to Wound"