Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi everyone,

First time poster/painter so please excuse me if I'm breaking any rules or making an obvious mistake. I found these forums thanks to advice from my local hobby store, and I will be going in to see if I can get some advice in person, but I want to see if there's an online resource I should be referring to as well.

Anyway, I'm following Sorastros' guide to painting stormtroopers, and I think I may have done something wrong while priming/washing my figures. While applying GW Nuln Oil, it seems as if the wash dried on in an ashy consistency. Some figures came out with a shading effect like what I saw in Sorastros' video, but quite a few came out entirely with a dirty ash covering, while some dried with a partial ash/shading effect.

Please excuse me if I'm using the wrong terminology, but I'm not quite sure what I'm doing wrong. I have some simple green on standby for stripping to completely start over, but I'd like to know if I'm doing something wrong while priming, or if I'm applying too much/not enough wash before I push the reset button.

Any help would be appreciated!

FYI I used Dork Tower's Armory white primer, and GW Codex Grey for the hands, eyes and gun. I applied Nuln Oil directly to the grey parts and primed areas. I did not apply a base coat per Sorastros' video, so not sure if that's causing the problem?

Hello mate, welcome - you're in the right place.

Wash over primer is fine, what it looks like is that you've not shaken the wash up enough - you need to shake it like crazy.

Recovery from here will be a coat of lahmian medium, or even just a light but thorough wash with water. It is recoverable though, and really common.

kb_lock wrote:
Hello mate, welcome - you're in the right place.

Wash over primer is fine, what it looks like is that you've not shaken the wash up enough - you need to shake it like crazy.

Recovery from here will be a coat of lahmian medium, or even just a light but thorough wash with water. It is recoverable though, and really common.

Thanks much kb_lock!

So I just looked up what lahmian medium is, and makes total sense to help my existing wash loosen up and hopefully flow again film understanding the concept right, but does it matter if the wash is already a week dry? I can run out and try to get the medium, but my local shop is pretty poorly stocked so I think I'll have to get it through Amazon.

FYI I just did a quick rinse with water on one of the figures in the sink, but it looks like the wash is thoroughly dry, so would the lahmian medium still work at this point?

Yeah lahmian will probably still work. You can also shake the hell out of the wash, thin it with water and try another coat.

Zooming in on your image there, the ashy consistency is the primer itself, your wash is just showing the texture of the paint.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Zooming in on your image there, the ashy consistency is the primer itself, your wash is just showing the texture of the paint.

Yeah I noticed the primer was a bit stippled when I put it on. I was trying to be very careful when I put it on so I wouldn't lose detail, and I thought the stippling would be good so the paint would really catch and cling on to the figure. I'm wondering now if I did not apply enough primer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kb_lock wrote:
Yeah lahmian will probably still work. You can also shake the hell out of the wash, thin it with water and try another coat.

Thanks! I'll give it a go with one of the figures to see if it's salvageable. Per buttery commissars note though, still thinking I also did something wrong while applying the primer.

What were the conditions like when you primed the miniatures? Sometimes if its too warm or humid, your sprays can dry cracked or speckled like this. Alternatively it could have just been a bad batch of paint assuming its spray on primer.

 WaaaaghLord wrote:
What were the conditions like when you primed the miniatures? Sometimes if its too warm or humid, your sprays can dry cracked or speckled like this. Alternatively it could have just been a bad batch of paint assuming its spray on primer.

It was pretty warm out, I think about 80-90 Fahrenheit. And shoot... Now that you mention it I think I let them dry out in the sun....

I didn't zoom in - if your primer is rough, everything will be. I'd strip a model and try your priming again.

Looking up the primer you used, I'm seeing endless complaints about gritty texture.
I don't think it's entirely something you did, I think it may be the paint combined with where you live.

Get thyself some simple acrylic based car primer, spray in the evening when it's cooler, and just make sure you're not so far away from the model that you're "dusting" it, but not so close that it pools. Practise on something like a clothes peg or a dead ballpoint pen, before using your minis.

kb_lock wrote:
I didn't zoom in - if your primer is rough, everything will be. I'd strip a model and try your priming again.

Mhm, my first thought was gritty unmixed wash, the old 2008 Citadels with black lids were a bugger for it, but on the front most base you can really see grains of paint.

Edit: Whilst primer does provide a small texture to allow paint to adhere, it shouldn't be something you can easily see or feel with your fingers.
For example this is primed relatively well (I have no idea what is going on under the cape, at a guess they primed a damp putty?) if you zoom, you can see in the picture that it ever so slightly has a key to the pint, but nothing like what's happened there with your guys.

If you spray from too far away, especially when warm, the paint can dry in the air and effectively ball up on the surface. Plus different primers are you know, different.

Yeah, I'm at a computer now - that is dead primer there.

Put the can in warm (not hot) water, shake the living hell out of it, spray outside when it is not overly humid (OR, immediately spray and bring the piece inside). Do multiple thin passes about 15-20cm from the piece (6-8 inches you heathen)

Your wash is fine, it is that primer that has done it.

And yeah, further to what butters said, you don't really need a physically detectable tooth for your primer - everything is miniature in our world, and even seemingly perfectly smooth surfaces can have a lot for paint to grip to

There isn't anything wrong with washing over primer, but remember, primers are designed to give your surface "teeth", something for acrylic paint to grab onto instead of slide off of.

On the other hand, the ideal surface for MOST wash effects are a perfectly smooth surface, such that the wash slides into the crevices, and doesn't cover the flat/raised surfaces. This is why many painters will gloss coat a model or an an area of a model before washing it, and then matte it down before using a paintbrush again.

There are some notable exceptions, though. For instance, when I wash metallic paint, I PREFER the pitted, uneven nature of paintbrush metallics, because the nuhln oil or agrax earthshade settles in the little pits and gives the metal a more natural texture, particularly after I drybrush or highlight it.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:


Get thyself some simple acrylic based car primer, spray in the evening when it's cooler, and just make sure you're not so far away from the model that you're "dusting" it, but not so close that it pools. Practise on something like a clothes peg or a dead ballpoint pen, before using your minis.

Thanks much for the advice. I'm going to look into a few car primers as it looks like Duplicolor gets pretty good reviews and is relatively cheap.

Based on the suggestions here and reviews on the web, I think I'll dump the Armory primer since it's been a pain cleaning the primer off of these figures and I'd rather enjoy my first foray into painting figures and try to be proud of my work, rather than get frustrated.

Thanks much everyone!

If you hold the spray can too far away while spraying you can get a grainy finish as well (paint dries in the air). Or if the can is too cold (paint doesn't atomise properly, warm it in a bucket of warm water). Or if the weather is very hot (paint dries in the air).

Though it seems like a few people have had issues with the primer you used so that could be it too (I've personally never used it so have no idea what it's like).

Washing over primer can be fine, but it can often cause problems as well because primer often comes out a bit porous so when you wash it, sometimes the wash gets attracted to where the primer is thickest (raised surfaces) rather than the crevices. Usually if I want to do a wash directly over a white, I'll spray prime white then hit it with just a regular white to get rid of any porosity before washing. (though it doesn't look like that was your problem, just saying what I personally do ).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Washing over primer can be fine, but it can often cause problems as well because primer often comes out a bit porous so when you wash it, sometimes the wash gets attracted to where the primer is thickest (raised surfaces) rather than the crevices. Usually if I want to do a wash directly over a white, I'll spray prime white then hit it with just a regular white to get rid of any porosity before washing. (though it doesn't look like that was your problem, just saying what I personally do ).

Thanks. My main question at this point is: if I prime the figure and give it a white basecoat, then wash with nuln oil, should I highlight the figure again with white?

I noticed I did a really poor job with the one figure that primed well, and I think it's because I didn't take the time to shine a light on the figure, take a picture and paint the figure based on what the light highlighted. I think I also have a problem with using too much paint as my highlights were a bit clumped up where the paint pooled.

I think I'm expecting too much of myself based on what I'm seeing here, but some of the highlights here look amazing and I'm setting my initial bar super high!

Yes, highlight again, and even reapply washes in areas. Nothing has to go on in one go and stay that way.

That also applies to your paints. You need to layer them, putting it on in one pass will result in a surface you're unhappy with.

Now with your paint, you want to get a plastic palette. A Pringles lid, a butter tub lid, or even a small china plate or tile. Mix the paint with at least one drop of water per drop of paint you gather. People aim for a free flowing milky consistency.
Dry your brush on paper towel. Get rid of both the water you can see, and the water that can leech off the bristles.
Get paint onto your brush. Then wipe the excess again into the paper towel. When looking at the brush, you want to see the silhouette of the brush, not a gob of paint on it.

Okay so you apply that, and it's disappointingly thin. It's not the instant result that your brain wants. That's fine, that's perfect in fact. Put that figure down, and do the next. Go down the Lin and then start again with the first you picked up, assuming it's dry. Two or three passes of colour is around the sweet spot for most of us amateur painters. Different colours are thicker and thinner. White can be very thin.

If it sounds over worked, you did say you want these to be future-proofed for your enjoyment. This is how to get a smooth surface so that if needs be, you can go back and touch up in future years without resorting to re priming.

Prime white, wash black, drybrush white can be devilishly hard to pull off. The nuhln oil really stains the white, leaving it a mucky uneven grey. The amount of dry rushing required can leave a lot more uneven texture than desired, plus the starkness of white to black is usually top much.

I would suggest a wash of highly diluted grey (use klear or lahmian medium), and paint multiple coats to darken it.

Also, praxetti white (drybrush compound) is your friend in this endeavor.