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I recently acquired some bikers that could be easily made Blood Angels or Word Bearers.

So, opinions?

I'd say DA because chaos bikers aren't that good.

Chaos bikers are great if you take them from the Khorne Daemonkin codex- specifically, "the gorepack" formation. Actually, it's the Fleshhounds in that formation that are really great- but you have the ability to take a lot of quick units and free up your fast attack slots.

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
Chaos bikers are great if you take them from the Khorne Daemonkin codex- specifically, "the gorepack" formation. Actually, it's the Fleshhounds in that formation that are really great- but you have the ability to take a lot of quick units and free up your fast attack slots.

Yah, the flesh hounds are the real good deal there, the fact that they haven an ok unit attached to their formation (bikes) just makes it better, but they are definitely not better than their loyal counterparts, both CSM/KDK aren't fearless and need to invest extra points if you want them to. They don't have access to grav weaponry like the loyalist... dunno if BA got it thou.

The answer is never BA in 7th. Ever.

Martel732 wrote:
The answer is never BA in 7th. Ever.

And yet a better army then CSM

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The answer is never BA in 7th. Ever.

And yet a better army then CSM

Debatable. I'm actually leaning towards CSM, personally. I guess that would make BA the worst list in the game.

Martel732 wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The answer is never BA in 7th. Ever.

And yet a better army then CSM

Debatable. I'm actually leaning towards CSM, personally. I guess that would make BA the worst list in the game.

Debatable. I've seen some BA lists actually do well against most armies, and I think BA have an advantage against a non-dataslate/allies CSM army.

Helldrakes and plague marines are better than anything BA have for sure. The rest of it seems like a giant wash of suckitude.

Martel732 wrote:
Helldrakes and plague marines are better than anything BA have for sure. The rest of it seems like a giant wash of suckitude.

'And They Shall Know No Fear', + Grav guns + more points efficient MSU builds + Drop Pods = BA's trump Chaos Marines.
The ally options end up swinging things massively in favour of BA's to boot, as Chaos Marines only have Daemons (and if you're lucky to have access to it), IA13.

There's simply no arguing that a book designed for 6th edition and which hasn't seen any new unit options for over 15+ gakking years is better than a book that's at least had the 7th edition treatment, alongside the option to pick and choose from a huge buffet of obnoxious allied shenanigans.

Allies dont make a codex good.

Drop pods dont work that well for ba, really.

Helldrakes are very effective vs scat bikes and black knights, units that BA have basically no answers for.

Martel732 wrote:
Allies dont make a codex good.

Drop pods dont work that well for ba, really.

1. A superb selection of allies to cherry pick from may not make the parent codex itself suddenly "good", but it most certainly does remove a good deal of otherwise "crappiness" from the parent codex.
You might not have a BA Librarian with Telepathy & Gravcents, but BA's can indeed take non-Furious Charging Librarians with Telepathy and Gravcents.

Chaos Marines get none of that love, with their singular 'best' allied option being unable to fully (ab)use the Battle Bros rules.


2. You can still get MSU Sternguard chalk full of combi-gravs in a Drop Pod for cheap. You can still reliably drop any of your special weapons right on top of their preferred target with almost 0 risk.
You know what Chaos Marines don't have any access to? Deep Strike mitigation of any kind.

Units that aren't in C:BA don't make C:BA good. I don't know how many times we have to go over this. I don't have a codex called "Imperium of Man". I have Blood Angels.

"You know what Chaos Marines don't have any access to? Deep Strike mitigation of any kind. "

But BA are a terrible drop list. It turns off our chapter tactic and our firepower is a joke compared to other chapters.

And MSU plague marines is pretty damn nasty.

Dimensional key - chaos artifact. Kill a model in close combat and ALL friendly units that deep strike do not scatter rest of game.

That is the ONLY way for them to mitigate deep strike mishaps though.

Martel732 wrote:
The answer is never BA in 7th. Ever.

WHAT???
But with Blood Angels you can create a dreadnought army (100% dreadnoughts) with a warhound titan for 2000 points!

commander dante wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The answer is never BA in 7th. Ever.

WHAT???
But with Blood Angels you can create a dreadnought army (100% dreadnoughts) with a warhound titan for 2000 points!

I kinda feel BA may be a bit better over Chaos at present. Or just no winning answer with each.

As someone that plays both, I actually have to give it up to Chaos... There are just more options there. I bring a Knight with my Blood Angels, but I run pure Chaos when I bring my Corsairs. I don't NEED to take anything extra with Chaos unless I want to. It has all the options I need. Blood Angels don't have the options that vanilla has and I'm usually left needing more in the army.

I feel that this has gone off topic a bit with comparing the merits of Chaos Space Marines over Blood Angels. The post is about a specific unit, namely the bikes.

I would say for me personally, Nurgle bikers are the best bikers on account of their extra toughness and potential for gifts on the champion. However, against other Chaos biker types/marks I would go for Blood Angels on account of their access to grav-gun weaponry, furious charge and +1 initiative on the charge if taking the baal detachment. Attach a priest on a bike and they get +1 weapon skill and fnp on top of all that.

 Slaphead wrote:
I feel that this has gone off topic a bit with comparing the merits of Chaos Space Marines over Blood Angels. The post is about a specific unit, namely the bikes.

I would say for me personally, Nurgle bikers are the best bikers on account of their extra toughness and potential for gifts on the champion. However, against other Chaos biker types/marks I would go for Blood Angels on account of their access to grav-gun weaponry, furious charge and +1 initiative on the charge if taking the baal detachment. Attach a priest on a bike and they get +1 weapon skill and fnp on top of all that.

You forgot that they won't run away from the table/get swept in combat or that it is a cheaper option point wise. So yeah, again go loyalist

Do Nurgle bikers get poison weapons?

Martel732 wrote:
Do Nurgle bikers get poison weapons?

Nop, only T6 for 30% over the cost of a vanilla bike. You can also get a banner to give them fear for the price of a melta

Martel732 wrote:
Do Nurgle bikers get poison weapons?

Of course not.

Chaos Bikers are great units for their codex. They're still however the worst bikers of all the various Marine flavours, with the best use being as a cheap tax to get super powered Flesh Hounds in a Gorepack formation.

Ahh Martel. Forever lamenting the Blood Angels and decrying them as the worst army in 40k.

They're not great, granted. They need to be updated to the current Space Marine and Dark Angel codexes, yes. They're FAR from the worst army or codex in the game.

I'm not saying they're comparable to Eldar, or other top end new codexes mentioned above, but they're certainly no dumpster fire either.

Bottom line, we all know you hate the current Blood Angels rules/codex Martel. Stop screeching it from the rooftops every chance you get. It's gotten old, and stale, and quite frankly kinda tiresome to those of us who enjoy playing Blood Angels in the current codex despite it's flaws.

Back on topic: I concur with making the bikers Blood Angels also. Furious Charge + Grav guns and a Sanguinary High Priest on a bike to give them feel no pain and +1 WS, what's not to love?

Just my opinion. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Chaos bikes with the icon of vengance are boss for even more lulz add a lord on bike with Daemonheart and Sigil + your choice of weapons and marks.

Also in the ba vs Chaos debate I'm giving it to csm as I've found unless they really spam a unit my csm laugh at them

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Chaos bikes with the icon of vengance are boss for even more lulz add a lord on bike with Daemonheart and Sigil + your choice of weapons and marks.

Also in the ba vs Chaos debate I'm giving it to csm as I've found unless they really spam a unit my csm laugh at them

Sorry to burst your bubble, but point for point, Loyalist Bikers are superior in every way as they're much cheaper, have much better IC synergy (hello Smash***** and/or Chappies w/Zealot!), come with ATSKNF, and get the down rightly godly Grav weaponry.
Spammable, Relentless grav weaponry alone makes Loyalist bikers an outright hard counter to 99% of the entire Chaos codex... And then for added lols, Vanillas and DA's can take scads of them as Obsec units.

Chaos Bikers are fantastic MSU units for spamming Relentless Plasma guns or cheap double Meltas within their own army. But Loyalist Bikers leave them in the dust, with only Bloodclaws being on the low end of the Loyalist options.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Chaos bikes with the icon of vengance are boss for even more lulz add a lord on bike with Daemonheart and Sigil + your choice of weapons and marks.

Also in the ba vs Chaos debate I'm giving it to csm as I've found unless they really spam a unit my csm laugh at them

Sorry to burst your bubble, but point for point, Loyalist Bikers are superior in every way as they're much cheaper, have much better IC synergy (hello Smash***** and/or Chappies w/Zealot!), come with ATSKNF, and get the down rightly godly Grav weaponry.
Spammable, Relentless grav weaponry alone makes Loyalist bikers an outright hard counter to 99% of the entire Chaos codex... And then for added lols, Vanillas and DA's can take scads of them as Obsec units.

Chaos Bikers are fantastic MSU units for spamming Relentless Plasma guns or cheap double Meltas within their own army. But Loyalist Bikers leave them in the dust, with only Bloodclaws being on the low end of the Loyalist options.

I disagree completely if your running 3 man min max squads then yeah your right but I don't I run atleast 5-6 bikes in the squad I run

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Chaos bikes with the icon of vengance are boss for even more lulz add a lord on bike with Daemonheart and Sigil + your choice of weapons and marks.

Also in the ba vs Chaos debate I'm giving it to csm as I've found unless they really spam a unit my csm laugh at them

Sorry to burst your bubble, but point for point, Loyalist Bikers are superior in every way as they're much cheaper, have much better IC synergy (hello Smash***** and/or Chappies w/Zealot!), come with ATSKNF, and get the down rightly godly Grav weaponry.
Spammable, Relentless grav weaponry alone makes Loyalist bikers an outright hard counter to 99% of the entire Chaos codex... And then for added lols, Vanillas and DA's can take scads of them as Obsec units.

Chaos Bikers are fantastic MSU units for spamming Relentless Plasma guns or cheap double Meltas within their own army. But Loyalist Bikers leave them in the dust, with only Bloodclaws being on the low end of the Loyalist options.

I disagree completely if your running 3 man min max squads then yeah your right but I don't I run atleast 5-6 bikes in the squad I run

That still doesn't change the fact that even BA bikers are hands down, superior to any similar unit build CSM's can take...

Nurgle Bikers escorting a Nurgle Lord w/P.fist + claw? yeah it's a great unit, but even BA's can take a better beatstick thanks being able to add a Chappy (for the ridiculously amazing Zealot rule) and a Grailpriest for FnP. On top of fielding Grav guns.

If we could at least give our Dark Apostles a bike of their own, our Bikers would near par with BA's. (though still light years behind Vanillas and DA's) As it is, our Bikers in end are simply on the wrong end of the Grav gun spectrum, and get out-Deathstared due to a complete lack of any real synergies.

" Stop screeching it from the rooftops every chance you get. It's gotten old, and stale, and quite frankly kinda tiresome to those of us who enjoy playing Blood Angels in the current codex despite it's flaws. "

There's always ignore. Feel free.

I guess it's fair to say that BA have the better bikers, but CSM probably have a marginally better codex.

"but they're certainly no dumpster fire either. "

Yes, they are. No answers to the new DA codex, new Necron codex, new Eldar codex, or new SM codex.

" They're FAR from the worst army or codex in the game. "

Tell me who is worse and I'll tell you why they aren't.

Martel732 wrote:
" Stop screeching it from the rooftops every chance you get. It's gotten old, and stale, and quite frankly kinda tiresome to those of us who enjoy playing Blood Angels in the current codex despite it's flaws. "

There's always ignore. Feel free.

I guess it's fair to say that BA have the better bikers, but CSM probably have a marginally better codex.

"but they're certainly no dumpster fire either. "

Yes, they are. No answers to the new DA codex, new Necron codex, new Eldar codex, or new SM codex.

" They're FAR from the worst army or codex in the game. "

Tell me who is worse and I'll tell you why they aren't.

I'm not going to argue with you Martel. You're not going to change your mind, and I'm not either. You can bring forth as much anecdotal "evidence" that Blood Angels are bad and I could give you just as much that they're still somewhat viable as a marine army if built correctly. Our opinions are our own, and the difference is yours is being paraded as fact when it it in fact your own opinion.

The fact remains that Blood Angels bikers are better than CSM bikers currently, and that's what the thread was about. Stop telling people not to play an army because in your opinion it's not up to scratch. Let people make their own choices while offering your opinion on it instead of stating your opinion as fact.

That's all I've got to say on the matter.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

" still somewhat viable as a marine army if built correctly."

Please PM me your "correct" builds, then.