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2015/09/21 12:03:34
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
This has to be one of the most disgraceful, undemocratic things I've read in years. We are not a banana republic!!
For non-Brits, here's a brief summary of the situation.
Britain has a Conservative government (Republicans)
Jeremy Corbyn is the new leader of the opposition Labour Party (Democrats)
Corbyn's opposition to NATO and Britain's nuclear deterrent is well known. Parliament will vote in the next 1-2 years on the question of Britain's nuclear deterrent being renewed.
I'm no Corbyn fan myself (for other reasons) but if the people of Britain voted him in as Prime Minister, that is the democratic will.
For a serving general to be saying what he said, is an attack on British democracy. If identified, he should, IMO, be stripped of his medals and honours, and kicked out of the army.
In the unlikely event that Corbyn is elected, and the unlikelier event that such a mutiny took place, then the mutineers should be placed in front of a firing squad!!!
For centuries, the penalty for mutiny in the British army was death.
You may think I'm going OTT, but this story has really got my blood boiling!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/09/21 12:11:18
Subject: Re:British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
As a point of confusion for a yank, I thought that in a parliamentary system you guys didn't actually vote on your own PM? I was given to understand that you just voted for your party rep, and then the party appoints its own leader. Is that not how it works?
Jimsolo wrote: As a point of confusion for a yank, I thought that in a parliamentary system you guys didn't actually vote on your own PM? I was given to understand that you just voted for your party rep, and then the party appoints its own leader. Is that not how it works?
That's true. You vote for Members of Parliament, and they vote for the leader of their party. If the party wins a majority, then the leader becomes Prime Minister.
Effectively, the voters will know who they want to be PM before they cast their vote.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/09/21 12:16:45
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
Each party has a leader who is selected in different ways depending on the party, normally by paid up party members voting.
After a general election in which the whole electorate has the chance to vote for their local MP, the leader of the party with the most seats is invited by the Queen to form a government.
However it is also possible for a party in power to lose its PM (Blair resigned, for instance, but he might have died of a heart attack) in which case the party selects a new PM without the need for a general election.
This has to be one of the most disgraceful, undemocratic things I've read in years. We are not a banana republic!!
For non-Brits, here's a brief summary of the situation.
Britain has a Conservative government (Republicans)
Jeremy Corbyn is the new leader of the opposition Labour Party (Democrats)
Corbyn's opposition to NATO and Britain's nuclear deterrent is well known. Parliament will vote in the next 1-2 years on the question of Britain's nuclear deterrent being renewed.
I'm no Corbyn fan myself (for other reasons) but if the people of Britain voted him in as Prime Minister, that is the democratic will.
For a serving general to be saying what he said, is an attack on British democracy. If identified, he should, IMO, be stripped of his medals and honours, and kicked out of the army.
In the unlikely event that Corbyn is elected, and the unlikelier event that such a mutiny took place, then the mutineers should be placed in front of a firing squad!!!
For centuries, the penalty for mutiny in the British army was death.
You may think I'm going OTT, but this story has really got my blood boiling!
Speaking as a concerned feren devil, you guys need to nip that in the bud right now. You can enter banaba republic land any time you like, but you can never leave.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 12:18:29
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/21 12:21:56
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
This has to be one of the most disgraceful, undemocratic things I've read in years. We are not a banana republic!!
For non-Brits, here's a brief summary of the situation.
Britain has a Conservative government (Republicans)
Jeremy Corbyn is the new leader of the opposition Labour Party (Democrats)
Corbyn's opposition to NATO and Britain's nuclear deterrent is well known. Parliament will vote in the next 1-2 years on the question of Britain's nuclear deterrent being renewed.
I'm no Corbyn fan myself (for other reasons) but if the people of Britain voted him in as Prime Minister, that is the democratic will.
For a serving general to be saying what he said, is an attack on British democracy. If identified, he should, IMO, be stripped of his medals and honours, and kicked out of the army.
In the unlikely event that Corbyn is elected, and the unlikelier event that such a mutiny took place, then the mutineers should be placed in front of a firing squad!!!
For centuries, the penalty for mutiny in the British army was death.
You may think I'm going OTT, but this story has really got my blood boiling!
Speaking as a concerned feren devil, you guys need to nip that in the bud right now. You can enter banaba republic land any time you like, but you can never leave.
For a serving general to be even thinking about mutiny, is a serious matter in my opinion. Frazz, if it were up to me, I'd throw him in the Tower of London for this treasonous talk!
I'm pretty sure that the Queen and Parliament still have this power.
If a high ranking American General talked about mutiny, I'm pretty sure you guys would want him thrown out of the military as well.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/09/21 12:24:36
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
In Britain, does the PM have a place in the chain of military command? (Presumably at the top?) Just curious. Also, Corbyn is notePM yet, is that correct?
Sorry, just gathering a little background info before coming to a conclusion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 12:25:35
Jimsolo wrote: In Britain, does the PM have a place in the chain of military command? (Presumably at the top?) Just curious. Also, Corbyn is notePM yet, is that correct?
Sorry, just gathering a little background info before coming to a conclusion.
The Queen is head of the Armed forces in the UK, but obviously, the monarchy, having lost the civil war centuries ago, is a token figurehead. Ultimately, the Prime Minister has the final say, and the monarch will sign it off.
Corbyn is not PM, the next election is 2020, a long time away, and it's unlikely he would win, given the conservative stance that the UK has adopted these days, but none the less, for certain military men to suggest this, is a disgrace. You can't rebel against a Prime Minister just because you disagree with their anti-nuclear or anti-NATO stance.
Plenty of room in the Tower of London for one more!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 12:30:48
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/09/21 12:31:23
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
This has to be one of the most disgraceful, undemocratic things I've read in years. We are not a banana republic!!
For non-Brits, here's a brief summary of the situation.
Britain has a Conservative government (Republicans)
Jeremy Corbyn is the new leader of the opposition Labour Party (Democrats)
Corbyn's opposition to NATO and Britain's nuclear deterrent is well known. Parliament will vote in the next 1-2 years on the question of Britain's nuclear deterrent being renewed.
I'm no Corbyn fan myself (for other reasons) but if the people of Britain voted him in as Prime Minister, that is the democratic will.
For a serving general to be saying what he said, is an attack on British democracy. If identified, he should, IMO, be stripped of his medals and honours, and kicked out of the army.
In the unlikely event that Corbyn is elected, and the unlikelier event that such a mutiny took place, then the mutineers should be placed in front of a firing squad!!!
For centuries, the penalty for mutiny in the British army was death.
You may think I'm going OTT, but this story has really got my blood boiling!
Speaking as a concerned feren devil, you guys need to nip that in the bud right now. You can enter banaba republic land any time you like, but you can never leave.
For a serving general to be even thinking about mutiny, is a serious matter in my opinion. Frazz, if it were up to me, I'd throw him in the Tower of London for this treasonous talk!
I'm pretty sure that the Queen and Parliament still have this power.
If a high ranking American General talked about mutiny, I'm pretty sure you guys would want him thrown out of the military as well.
MacArthur: I'm God I can do what I want.
Truman to MacArthur: You're fired.
MacArthur: er...
Truman: MPs, help him with his bags. Don't let him deel lonely while he's waiting. We wouldn't want him to fade away.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/21 12:33:11
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
Jimsolo wrote: In Britain, does the PM have a place in the chain of military command? (Presumably at the top?) Just curious. Also, Corbyn is notePM yet, is that correct?
Sorry, just gathering a little background info before coming to a conclusion.
The PM is not the commander in chief.
Corbyn is leader of the opposition and gets his chance to become PM at the next General Election in 2015 (unless the Conservatives lose a vote of confidence before then.)
This general's comments are similar to various comments made in the previous five years when the coalition government was reducing the armed forces.
For centuries, the penalty for mutiny in the British army was death.
We used to be old school like that. Now we aren't for some reason.
And yes, I agree that it was very poor taste to say that. However, the article states that
He told the Sunday Times: “The Army just wouldn’t stand for it. The general staff would not allow a prime minister to jeopardise the security of this country and I think people would use whatever means possible, fair or foul to prevent that. You can’t put a maverick in charge of a country’s security.
“There would be mass resignations at all levels and you would face the very real prospect of an event which would effectively be a mutiny.”
They aren't taking up arms or refusing orders. Its a mass resignation. Hardly the same thing.
feeder wrote: Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.
2015/09/21 12:34:32
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
Er... if he's talking coup then your military has a duty (a ROYAL duty ) to deal with him. isn't that an offense against the Queen's rule? Don't mess with that chick. She'll bleed you, real quiet like...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/21 12:43:40
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
For centuries, the penalty for mutiny in the British army was death.
We used to be old school like that. Now we aren't for some reason.
And yes, I agree that it was very poor taste to say that. However, the article states that
He told the Sunday Times: “The Army just wouldn’t stand for it. The general staff would not allow a prime minister to jeopardise the security of this country and I think people would use whatever means possible, fair or foul to prevent that. You can’t put a maverick in charge of a country’s security.
“There would be mass resignations at all levels and you would face the very real prospect of an event which would effectively be a mutiny.”
They aren't taking up arms or refusing orders. Its a mass resignation. Hardly the same thing.
I have no problem whatsoever with senior officers resigning and leaving the army if they don't want to serve under a particular government - that is their right in a democracy.
But when they talk about fair means or FOUL, they've crossed the line
Er... if he's talking coup then your military has a duty (a ROYAL duty ) to deal with him. isn't that an offense against the Queen's rule? Don't mess with that chick. She'll bleed you, real quiet like...
Years ago Frazz, the British army would tie a mutineer to a cannon and open fire...very nasty.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 12:44:46
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/09/21 12:51:08
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
No no, years ago he would be hanged (but not to death), have his privates cut off, be disemboweled with his innards cooked in front of him, then quartered. In that order.
Old school English don't play around.
Sounds like its time for a little of Ye Olde Queen's Justice...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 12:51:57
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/21 13:10:40
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
To me its not clear that the person who made these comments is still in active service. Even though it says 'senior serving general' it sounds more like someone whos retired.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 13:11:19
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2015/09/21 13:43:28
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Corbyn's opposition to NATO and Britain's nuclear deterrent is well known. Parliament will vote in the next 1-2 years on the question of Britain's nuclear deterrent being renewed.
Wow, so, now Brits will get to choose between a genocidal maniac and a suicidal maniac?
The same people are fine with the current government's cuts to the military then? If they want to pull a hissy fit at every time the government pulls one on them then they're not exactly in the right career.
2015/09/21 15:17:52
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
chaos0xomega wrote: To me its not clear that the person who made these comments is still in active service. Even though it says 'senior serving general' it sounds more like someone whos retired.
If he were retired, nobody would blink an eyelid at these comments - they would dismiss him as going war crazy or something. No, this general is still serving.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote: No no, years ago he would be hanged (but not to death), have his privates cut off, be disemboweled with his innards cooked in front of him, then quartered.
In that order.
Old school English don't play around.
Sounds like its time for a little of Ye Olde Queen's Justice...
No such luck I'm afraid, Frazz. Damned Liberals got their way with their human rights act. Mutiny and treason are no longer punishable by death. A cosy jail cell is the punishment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 15:48:46
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/09/21 15:49:39
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
There are rumours that this has nearly happened in the past...............
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Mr Morden wrote: There are rumours that this has nearly happened in the past...............
Yeah, there was supposed to be a plot against Harold Wilson when he was Prime Minister. A lot of people thought he was a Soviet spy
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/09/21 15:53:18
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
Mr Morden wrote: There are rumours that this has nearly happened in the past...............
Yeah, there was supposed to be a plot against Harold Wilson when he was Prime Minister. A lot of people thought he was a Soviet spy
Spycatcher and al that - yeah. Difficult to know the truth.
Not always reliable but from Wiki:
On the BBC television programme The Plot Against Harold Wilson, broadcast on 16 March 2006 on BBC2, it was claimed there were threats of a coup d'état against the Wilson government, which was corroborated by leading figures of the time on both the left and the right. Wilson told two BBC journalists, Roger Courtiour and Barrie Penrose, who recorded the meetings on a cassette tape recorder, that he feared he was being undermined by MI5. The first time was in the late 1960s after the Wilson Government devalued the pound sterling but the threat faded after Conservative leader Edward Heath won the election of 1970. However after a coal miners' strike Heath decided to hold an election to renew his mandate to govern in February 1974 but lost narrowly to Wilson. There was again talk of a military coup, with rumours of Lord Mountbatten as head of an interregnal administration after Wilson had been deposed. In 1974 the Army occupied Heathrow Airport on the grounds of training for possible IRA terrorist action at the airport. However Baroness Falkender (a senior aide and close friend of Wilson) asserted that the operation was ordered as a practice-run for a military takeover or as a show of strength, as the government itself was not informed of such an exercise based around a key point in the nation's transport infrastructure
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
There was an interview with Tony Benn, where he said " he was informed that should he become prime minister he would be assassinated" .
So much for democracy.
around 3.10 .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 16:42:05
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2015/09/21 16:43:19
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
Given that he is threatening to mutiny if the British electorate vote for things that he personally doesn't like he really, really shouldn't be.
David Cameron should be ordering an enquiry into this ASAP. This general should be traced, and kicked out of the army for these disgraceful comments.
Unfortunately, Cameron is rather distracted by a certain farmyard animal.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/09/21 19:04:23
Subject: British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
Jimsolo wrote: As a point of confusion for a yank, I thought that in a parliamentary system you guys didn't actually vote on your own PM? I was given to understand that you just voted for your party rep, and then the party appoints its own leader. Is that not how it works?
That's true. You vote for Members of Parliament, and they vote for the leader of their party. If the party wins a majority, then the leader becomes Prime Minister.
Effectively, the voters will know who they want to be PM before they cast their vote.
Except that isn't in the slightest bit true.
People vote only for their local MP. Some people might vote for a party and not want a particular PM, in fact this is not uncommon.
Next on to the scare story concerned.
One general said a Corbyn premiership might result in a 'mutiny'. As even the independent placed this in quotes it is likely to be a metaphor.
Generals and senior civil servants do have a method of severe protest at government actions. It is rarely used on any large scale. The last time was in 2008 when Gordon Brown completely mishandled the economic recovery and massively spent the nation into outrageous debt. The protest involved a formal rersport of opposition and disownership of the policies concerned. In the case of the army it would be a metaphorical mutiny.
To quote the unnamed source:
“There would be mass resignations at all levels and you would face the very real prospect of an event which would effectively be a mutiny.”
Effectively a mutiny via massed resignation. Essentially what the general is referring to is a form of industrial action, or downing of tools. One thing we do know as it cant be a direct literal mutiny, it must be a metaphor as a mutiny (noun) involves naval personnel, to mutiny (verb) involves ignoring orders and not a coup as such.
Given that he is threatening to mutiny if the British electorate vote for things that he personally doesn't like he really, really shouldn't be.
David Cameron should be ordering an enquiry into this ASAP. This general should be traced, and kicked out of the army for these disgraceful comments.
So you disagree with industrial action then,.
Nice to have you aboard. You agree to remove the Trade Union strangehold and then we can look at the army.
After all this general has done nothing wrong, if we were to force people out of position for every time they talked about 'direct action' there would be no Trade Union movement left. Which might not be a bad thing, its only good for foundationing extreme left wing agendas and doesnt precious little for workers rights, or they might have opposed Blair more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 19:27:48
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2015/09/21 19:37:18
Subject: Re:British Army generals threaten to mutiny if Corbyn elected Prime Minister
We are not a banana republic!!
Legion: Dark Angels 
) to deal with him. isn't that an offense against the Queen's rule? Don't mess with that chick. She'll bleed you, real quiet like...
