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The way i see it, short of rediscovering dark age tech, humans are pretty much fighting a losing battle. They are struggling to maintain the status quo while forces like Necrons and tyranids are just ramping up. So here is my question:

If in say 500-1000 years the full host of tyrandis makes it to the galaxy and the Necrons are fully awakened and regain most of the use of their tech (Orrey, planet killer bases, star imploding dental dams, you know standard necron stuff) who would win that fight?

I place this scenario, because I feel like the only other faction/force that can contend with either of these factions would be Orks, but due to their disjointed nature, they will never be more than a regional threat. Anything that would require most of the orks to band together in the face of necron or tyranids would already be too huge for the disorganized orks to repel. Orks are great at holding planets but not so great at beating back invaders, especially endless swarms of nids or continuously reanimating crons. They would enjoy it and fight to the last spore, but i think the only thing they could realistically achieve would be an endless stale mate on individual planets. and then the tyrandis would strip the planet bare or the Necrons would simply destroy the planet,. in addition the command structure and technology level of orks would be easily matched and exceeded by both of the previous factions. all you would need in the fluff is a group of death marks or a huge swarm of tryandis to overwhelm even someone like Ghaz.

In the face of overwhelming technology and/or numbers, no other faction can match these things and would eventually be ground down under neath the crons or nids. Again this is just the way I see it. If you disagree please let me know who you think could win

Necrons. Tyranids Actively avoid them now because it's a net loss of biomass. in a Necron vs. Tyranid fight, Tyranids only loose, because A) like I said, no new biomass, and B) Necrons suffer very low losses due to warping away "wounded" and other shenanigans.

Chaos consumes them both as the galaxy is dragged screaming into the warp.

There are three major players for victory in 40k: Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons.

Who it will be depends on many factors and is difficult to say.

If they're whirring, they're not silent. >>

 Furyou Miko wrote:
If they're whirring, they're not silent. >>

Haha that irked me too; 'soft whirring' would be better.

Animus wrote:
Chaos consumes them both as the galaxy is dragged screaming into the warp.

Not really, what would happen is that the EoT expands covering the galaxy, but Chaos is self-destructive and will quickly kill the mortals that feed it which ends in Chaos retreating from the galaxy. Both the Tyranids and the Necrons will survive. The Tyranids will continue their voyage in search of food, harvesting the last remains of biomass in the galaxy and then leaving it for the next one. And the Necrons end alone and sad as they can't recover their souls.

The Necrons would win because the Tyranids are going to run out of biomass. They are not able to recover the losses they suffer fighting Necrons, which is why Tyranids avoid Necron worlds like the plague.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The Necrons would win because the Tyranids are going to run out of biomass. They are not able to recover the losses they suffer fighting Necrons, which is why Tyranids avoid Necron worlds like the plague.

The Tyranid's main source of resources are planets, not the enemy forces. If a Tomb World is rich in resources, the Tyranids will be able replenish their loses. Of course the Necrons can start destroying anything that may interest the Tyranids.

Thanks for the responses so far.

I dont think Chaos, daemons or otherwise, would win because they require mortal sentient beings with souls for power, and Necrons and Tyranids are not that. Chaos hasn't been shown to be able to corrupt nids and AFAIK cannot corrupt Necrons as they have no soul or presence in the warp.

as a side note:
Whirring can be silent, like feeling a pressure differential from a spinning fan or motor. it doesn't necessarily make audible noise but moves or vibrates the air in a frequency above or below the human hearing range. like standing in front of a fan and feeling the pulses of air or a low frequency humming that you feel in your body rather than hear.

Nids can be corrupted, as they are living creatures, but it depends on how many of them are present vs the local strength of the Warp.

If the Warp-taint is particularly strong, it can "drown out" the Shadow in the Warp. Once that happens, the bugs go feral, and some get possessed. Then? Then things go very bad for the Tyranids.

 Tyran wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos consumes them both as the galaxy is dragged screaming into the warp.

Not really, what would happen is that the EoT expands covering the galaxy, but Chaos is self-destructive and will quickly kill the mortals that feed it which ends in Chaos retreating from the galaxy. Both the Tyranids and the Necrons will survive. The Tyranids will continue their voyage in search of food, harvesting the last remains of biomass in the galaxy and then leaving it for the next one. And the Necrons end alone and sad as they can't recover their souls.

Nope, the rulebook is quite clear on the matter. Chaos would consume the galaxy, ending space time and matter, leaving only Chaos.

Animus wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos consumes them both as the galaxy is dragged screaming into the warp.

Not really, what would happen is that the EoT expands covering the galaxy, but Chaos is self-destructive and will quickly kill the mortals that feed it which ends in Chaos retreating from the galaxy. Both the Tyranids and the Necrons will survive. The Tyranids will continue their voyage in search of food, harvesting the last remains of biomass in the galaxy and then leaving it for the next one. And the Necrons end alone and sad as they can't recover their souls.

Nope, the rulebook is quite clear on the matter. Chaos would consume the galaxy, ending space time and matter, leaving only Chaos.

But if there are no more souls to provide emotional energy to the warp it would calm and the Ruinous Powers would cease to be.

Animus wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos consumes them both as the galaxy is dragged screaming into the warp.

Not really, what would happen is that the EoT expands covering the galaxy, but Chaos is self-destructive and will quickly kill the mortals that feed it which ends in Chaos retreating from the galaxy. Both the Tyranids and the Necrons will survive. The Tyranids will continue their voyage in search of food, harvesting the last remains of biomass in the galaxy and then leaving it for the next one. And the Necrons end alone and sad as they can't recover their souls.

Nope, the rulebook is quite clear on the matter. Chaos would consume the galaxy, ending space time and matter, leaving only Chaos.

That doesn't sound like a fanboy response at all...

Animus wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos consumes them both as the galaxy is dragged screaming into the warp.

Not really, what would happen is that the EoT expands covering the galaxy, but Chaos is self-destructive and will quickly kill the mortals that feed it which ends in Chaos retreating from the galaxy. Both the Tyranids and the Necrons will survive. The Tyranids will continue their voyage in search of food, harvesting the last remains of biomass in the galaxy and then leaving it for the next one. And the Necrons end alone and sad as they can't recover their souls.

Nope, the rulebook is quite clear on the matter. Chaos would consume the galaxy, ending space time and matter, leaving only Chaos.

The rulebook isn't the only source on the matter. In the Valedor novel that possible future is shown, chaos consumes the galaxy and then burns itself and retreats.

... that still leaves a lifeless galaxy in its wake. The end results are not a Tyranid victory.

 Psienesis wrote:
Nids can be corrupted, as they are living creatures, but it depends on how many of them are present vs the local strength of the Warp.

If the Warp-taint is particularly strong, it can "drown out" the Shadow in the Warp. Once that happens, the bugs go feral, and some get possessed. Then? Then things go very bad for the Tyranids.

Everything with matter can be corrupted by Chaos. Necrons are even easier than Nids as they lack the protection of a "Shadow". And we have yet to see the warp-taint "drown out" the Hive Mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
... that still leaves a lifeless galaxy in its wake. The end results are not a Tyranid victory.

There is no such thing as a victory for the Tyranids, only food. They will simply continue their course to the next galaxy.

I believe it is referenced in current Codex: Nids where it works in reverse, the daemonic presence in an area (Nurgle's, iirc) is not particularly large, but they are handing the bugs their abdomens until enough bugs show up to strengthen the SitW to a point where it cuts the daemons off from the Warp and they vanish.

This implies that, in a reverse situation, adding more Warp to the mix will counter the SitW.

 Tyran wrote:
The rulebook isn't the only source on the matter. In the Valedor novel that possible future is shown, chaos consumes the galaxy and then burns itself and retreats.

We have direct author to reader contact across multiple editions telling us that Chaos will obliterate space and time, leaving only Chaos.
The vision in Valedor is something an in-universe character sees and so is less reliable, even discounting the fact that prophecy is naturally unreliable.

 Psienesis wrote:
I believe it is referenced in current Codex: Nids where it works in reverse, the daemonic presence in an area (Nurgle's, iirc) is not particularly large, but they are handing the bugs their abdomens until enough bugs show up to strengthen the SitW to a point where it cuts the daemons off from the Warp and they vanish.

This implies that, in a reverse situation, adding more Warp to the mix will counter the SitW.

It doesn't cuts completely the Daemons from the warp, but it makes it considerably harder for them to maintain their material bodies and weakens them. Also the Daemons can't feed from the Tyranids, so they are constantly wasting energy, essentially they are starving.

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Nids can be corrupted, as they are living creatures, but it depends on how many of them are present vs the local strength of the Warp.

If the Warp-taint is particularly strong, it can "drown out" the Shadow in the Warp. Once that happens, the bugs go feral, and some get possessed. Then? Then things go very bad for the Tyranids.

Everything with matter can be corrupted by Chaos. Necrons are even easier than Nids as they lack the protection of a "Shadow". And we have yet to see the warp-taint "drown out" the Hive Mind.

this is categorically untrue. If something doesn't have a presence in the warp, it cannot be corrupted by chaos. machines even as lowly as bolters and las rifles have Machine Spirits that register in the Warp, Necrons however are completely null to the warp as a result of biotransference. So Chaos cannot corrupt necrons or any part of their society as their technoogy functions absent of the warp.

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Nids can be corrupted, as they are living creatures, but it depends on how many of them are present vs the local strength of the Warp.

If the Warp-taint is particularly strong, it can "drown out" the Shadow in the Warp. Once that happens, the bugs go feral, and some get possessed. Then? Then things go very bad for the Tyranids.

Everything with matter can be corrupted by Chaos. Necrons are even easier than Nids as they lack the protection of a "Shadow". And we have yet to see the warp-taint "drown out" the Hive Mind.

this is categorically untrue. If something doesn't have a presence in the warp, it cannot be corrupted by chaos. machines even as lowly as bolters and las rifles have Machine Spirits that register in the Warp, Necrons however are completely null to the warp as a result of biotransference. So Chaos cannot corrupt necrons or any part of their society as their technoogy functions absent of the warp.

Chaos has corrupted things like planets and even stars. Warp presence makes thing far easier, but it isn't necessary.

Animus wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos consumes them both as the galaxy is dragged screaming into the warp.

Not really, what would happen is that the EoT expands covering the galaxy, but Chaos is self-destructive and will quickly kill the mortals that feed it which ends in Chaos retreating from the galaxy. Both the Tyranids and the Necrons will survive. The Tyranids will continue their voyage in search of food, harvesting the last remains of biomass in the galaxy and then leaving it for the next one. And the Necrons end alone and sad as they can't recover their souls.

Nope, the rulebook is quite clear on the matter. Chaos would consume the galaxy, ending space time and matter, leaving only Chaos.

Wouldn't Chaos then cease to exist?
Chaos is a replicant of the current would, it exists because of the residual emitted warp energy of living souls.

Also I think Necrons would win, only because they can't really permanently lose parts unless they lose a tomb world, which is incredibly hard to do.
Tyranids have to feed, and they get nothing from Necrons.

However, I answered the eternal battle of bio vs mech cause I love Xenoblade.

 Mantorok wrote:
Wouldn't Chaos then cease to exist?
Chaos is a replicant of the current would, it exists because of the residual emitted warp energy of living souls.

Chaos transcends time and connects with more than one dimension.
The book says that Chaos will remain.

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Nids can be corrupted, as they are living creatures, but it depends on how many of them are present vs the local strength of the Warp.

If the Warp-taint is particularly strong, it can "drown out" the Shadow in the Warp. Once that happens, the bugs go feral, and some get possessed. Then? Then things go very bad for the Tyranids.

Everything with matter can be corrupted by Chaos. Necrons are even easier than Nids as they lack the protection of a "Shadow". And we have yet to see the warp-taint "drown out" the Hive Mind.

this is categorically untrue. If something doesn't have a presence in the warp, it cannot be corrupted by chaos. machines even as lowly as bolters and las rifles have Machine Spirits that register in the Warp, Necrons however are completely null to the warp as a result of biotransference. So Chaos cannot corrupt necrons or any part of their society as their technoogy functions absent of the warp.

Codex: Necrons disagrees.

Animus wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:
Wouldn't Chaos then cease to exist?
Chaos is a replicant of the current would, it exists because of the residual emitted warp energy of living souls.

Chaos transcends time and connects with more than one dimension.
The book says that Chaos will remain.

So Chaos can wreck WHFB and 40K and still remain?
What's left? Blood Bowl? The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit?
I don't know if GW has any other IPs under their belt.

Wait what Necrons were corrupted by Chaos? Maybe their plans but not their bodies.

 Psienesis wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Nids can be corrupted, as they are living creatures, but it depends on how many of them are present vs the local strength of the Warp.

If the Warp-taint is particularly strong, it can "drown out" the Shadow in the Warp. Once that happens, the bugs go feral, and some get possessed. Then? Then things go very bad for the Tyranids.

Everything with matter can be corrupted by Chaos. Necrons are even easier than Nids as they lack the protection of a "Shadow". And we have yet to see the warp-taint "drown out" the Hive Mind.

this is categorically untrue. If something doesn't have a presence in the warp, it cannot be corrupted by chaos. machines even as lowly as bolters and las rifles have Machine Spirits that register in the Warp, Necrons however are completely null to the warp as a result of biotransference. So Chaos cannot corrupt necrons or any part of their society as their technoogy functions absent of the warp.

Codex: Necrons disagrees.

I apologize, I was mistaken. I don't think chaos is a viable choice in this scenario because they still require mortal souls and emotions to power themselves.

Pardon me for what is potential fanboying, but wouldn't rule out the IoM of the near future. If Humanity can evolve to a fully-psychic race before the 'Nids or the 'Crons can get at them. I would say that they have a fighting chance. Not a guaranteed win, or even a very likely one, but a reasonable chance.

Animus wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:
Wouldn't Chaos then cease to exist?
Chaos is a replicant of the current would, it exists because of the residual emitted warp energy of living souls.

Chaos transcends time and connects with more than one dimension.
The book says that Chaos will remain.

Chaos will continue to exist. But without mortals to feed it, and the Chaos Gods interest shifting to some other planes/dimensions/universes, Chaos will be non existent in the 40k galaxy.

I wonder...perhaps some wiser heads here can fill me in on some of the details around true nature of the C'tan.

See, the C'tan were known to consume the souls of the entire Necron race (much like Slaanesh did to the Eldar.) That's a lot of souls. Souls which had quite a lot of jealousy, hate and self-loathing emotional essence to them. As they were siphoned off by the C'tan before they could dissipate ino the Warp, that's an entire galaxy-spanning race's worth of psychic energy being held in reserve by the C'tan themselves.

If Chaos was able to in any way consume a C'tan, or even one of the various Shards that exist...that would be a *massive* boost in Chaos' power. Consume enough C'tan, and you may even have another god of hatred or something be birthed in the Warp. The problem for Chaos is getting to the C'tan in order to transfer those souls into the Warp - currently they are 'trapped' in the physical world.

Now...if Chaos could pull *that* off, they would become a powerhouse that could potentially flatten their rivals.

Grateful to hear anyone else' input on this concept.