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Nope Mr Jnr is right, the lastest latest update is worded differently to the one we looked at,

 Azreal13 wrote:
But isn't a tabling always a 100/0?

Scoring is explained in the tournament rules I linked in my last post.

I bet it is.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I bet it is.

Here it is again, in case you missed it: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/b4/38/b4383976-fa2a-4062-a271-b18ad854530a/x-wing_tournament_rules_v322.pdf

Scoring is discussed on page 3, if you're interested.

Nope, didn't miss it.

Don't spam the forum, you're on thin ice Azrael

Is there somewhere i can access those rules outside of the ffg site?

It refuses to work on my phone

 jokerkd wrote:
Is there somewhere i can access those rules outside of the ffg site?

It refuses to work on my phone

Not to my knowledge. It's a PDF though, have you tried downloading it?

Yeah, it just tries for a few minutes and then fails.
It's always been a problem. I cant even access the site with the stock browser. I have to use chrome

No... tabling can be as close as 100/88 if I understand things right.

Big ships will be around after a couple of months. We saw the exact same thing with the desperately needed phantom nerf.

1. Nerf happens, there is much rejoicing/gnashing of teeth as people overreact on both sides
2. People leave game and sell off collections because of an "unfair nerf".
3.meta shakes out for a couple months
4. Players realize that, what do you know, nerfed ship is actually still viable, its just not the auto include it used to be. Now it needs to have thought put into taking it just like everything else.

Give people time to get used to the meta and they'll reappear. Theyll be leaner, and have more support, but they'll be back

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Big ships will be around after a couple of months. We saw the exact same thing with the desperately needed phantom nerf.

1. Nerf happens, there is much rejoicing/gnashing of teeth as people overreact on both sides
2. People leave game and sell off collections because of an "unfair nerf".
3.meta shakes out for a couple months
4. Players realize that, what do you know, nerfed ship is actually still viable, its just not the auto include it used to be. Now it needs to have thought put into taking it just like everything else.

Give people time to get used to the meta and they'll reappear. Theyll be leaner, and have more support, but they'll be back

They won't have to come back because they won't leave.

A fat Decimator is still a great investment, regardless of the scoring change. Likewise, Fat Han is going to be just as annoying as he currently is. I expect them to still be pretty common in the meta and we'll probably be seeing lots of them at Worlds in November (I wish I was going but I couldn't get a spot!).

I don't know, I still think many people will drop fat ships cold turkey because of the tlt/mov nerf.

The phantom got a nerf not even remotely as bad and it essentially disappeared for a while.

Obviously a few will still run it but I would expect to see mainly brobot lists and shuttles, with very few fat turrets.

We won't know till worlds though obviously. I could easily be wrong on this

I don't think we'll see that many Brobots either, honestly. Someone posted some metrics from several events around the North-East, and Brobots haven't been having strong showings.

I enjoy the list, but I think it seems to be one doing better on paper than in practice.

 Azreal13 wrote:
But isn't a tabling always a 100/0?

no, the winner got 100 but the loser still got points for what he killed.


Why are tlt so overhyped on the Internet? They can really only be taken on HWK or Y wings and frankly can't do enough damage, esp against high agility ships. 3 red dice which can't be modified most of the time just can't do enough damage. How are all these internet wiseacres getting guaranteed damage every roll?

I agree, I've always maintained they're strong, but not as strong as some seem to believe. My real world experiences have borne that out. There are ways of countering them, if you aren't able to do so, that's a weakness in your list that needs addressing or a failure of oneself as a player.

You did miss the K Wing though, Miranda synergises very well with a TLT.

I've found btl-a4 + tlt to very effective

buckero0 wrote:
Why are tlt so overhyped on the Internet? They can really only be taken on HWK or Y wings and frankly can't do enough damage, esp against high agility ships. 3 red dice which can't be modified most of the time just can't do enough damage. How are all these internet wiseacres getting guaranteed damage every roll?

It's called probability. The two three dice attacks capped at two damage have a higher chance of not missing completely then a standard three dice attack with no cap. They don't put up big numbers because they aren't designed too; they're a complete counter to high health, low agility point fortresses (like Fat Han) and they offer a steady trickle of damage. It becomes a game of attrition because massed TLTs will out damage Fat Han, who's sole trick to staying alive is C-3PO shenanigans (which only works once per round) and not punishing damage. Since each TLT attack is a separate attack, C-3PO can only trigger once and the Falcon only has one native agility meaning eight volleys of three dice capped at eight total damage per round is going to get more than enough damage through.

In multiples, they work well against high agility ships and ships that need tokes to stay alive because the sheer amount of dice they roll. The attack dice have a greater chance to hit than the defense dice have to roll evades, forcing ships like named Phantoms and Fel to use up their tokens because of how many dice are being rolled against them.

They're a good weapon but they aren't the end-all-be-all either.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
No... tabling can be as close as 100/88 if I understand things right.

It can actually be closer than that if the last ship is a Nashtah Pup.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
Why are tlt so overhyped on the Internet? They can really only be taken on HWK or Y wings and frankly can't do enough damage, esp against high agility ships. 3 red dice which can't be modified most of the time just can't do enough damage. How are all these internet wiseacres getting guaranteed damage every roll?

It's called probability. The two three dice attacks capped at two damage have a higher chance of not missing completely then a standard three dice attack with no cap. They don't put up big numbers because they aren't designed too; they're a complete counter to high health, low agility point fortresses (like Fat Han) and they offer a steady trickle of damage. It becomes a game of attrition because massed TLTs will out damage Fat Han, who's sole trick to staying alive is C-3PO shenanigans (which only works once per round) and not punishing damage. Since each TLT attack is a separate attack, C-3PO can only trigger once and the Falcon only has one native agility meaning eight volleys of three dice capped at eight total damage per round is going to get more than enough damage through.

In multiples, they work well against high agility ships and ships that need tokes to stay alive because the sheer amount of dice they roll. The attack dice have a greater chance to hit than the defense dice have to roll evades, forcing ships like named Phantoms and Fel to use up their tokens because of how many dice are being rolled against them.

They're a good weapon but they aren't the end-all-be-all either.

I recognize the probability, I don't recognize the hype or crying that 4 TLT Ys are unbeatable and broken and have ruined the game. Maybe our area is different than others, but there are way more high agility 3-4 ship builds playing than FAT ships. Y wings are probably better as a TLT platform than HWK s but they go down pretty quick to mass fire, and once you lose a turret or two you just can't put enough damage on in my experience. Frankly, I can't do damage with only 3 red dice reliably and would prefer having more dice than the multiple shots

buckero0 wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
Why are tlt so overhyped on the Internet? They can really only be taken on HWK or Y wings and frankly can't do enough damage, esp against high agility ships. 3 red dice which can't be modified most of the time just can't do enough damage. How are all these internet wiseacres getting guaranteed damage every roll?

It's called probability. The two three dice attacks capped at two damage have a higher chance of not missing completely then a standard three dice attack with no cap. They don't put up big numbers because they aren't designed too; they're a complete counter to high health, low agility point fortresses (like Fat Han) and they offer a steady trickle of damage. It becomes a game of attrition because massed TLTs will out damage Fat Han, who's sole trick to staying alive is C-3PO shenanigans (which only works once per round) and not punishing damage. Since each TLT attack is a separate attack, C-3PO can only trigger once and the Falcon only has one native agility meaning eight volleys of three dice capped at eight total damage per round is going to get more than enough damage through.

In multiples, they work well against high agility ships and ships that need tokes to stay alive because the sheer amount of dice they roll. The attack dice have a greater chance to hit than the defense dice have to roll evades, forcing ships like named Phantoms and Fel to use up their tokens because of how many dice are being rolled against them.

They're a good weapon but they aren't the end-all-be-all either.

I recognize the probability, I don't recognize the hype or crying that 4 TLT Ys are unbeatable and broken and have ruined the game. Maybe our area is different than others, but there are way more high agility 3-4 ship builds playing than FAT ships. Y wings are probably better as a TLT platform than HWK s but they go down pretty quick to mass fire, and once you lose a turret or two you just can't put enough damage on in my experience. Frankly, I can't do damage with only 3 red dice reliably and would prefer having more dice than the multiple shots

Considering how rare having 4 dice is, I don't think that's an issue. If you struggle to cause damage with 3 Dice, then the damage cap shouldn't matter.

I think part of the hype/rage is the 'easy' mode of an all turret list, the turret list can pretty much fly like poop and not lose shots whereas the high agility / high output lists have to fly honest and a couple of ships missing a turn or two of shooting means
the TLT plinking starts to match the other lists output

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
I think part of the hype/rage is the 'easy' mode of an all turret list, the turret list can pretty much fly like poop and not lose shots whereas the high agility / high output lists have to fly honest and a couple of ships missing a turn or two of shooting means
the TLT plinking starts to match the other lists output

Which is why i run 2 with btl-a4 upgrades. You have to consider your moves but being able to keep a target in arc pays off

buckero0 wrote:
I recognize the probability, I don't recognize the hype or crying that 4 TLT Ys are unbeatable and broken and have ruined the game. Maybe our area is different than others, but there are way more high agility 3-4 ship builds playing than FAT ships. Y wings are probably better as a TLT platform than HWK s but they go down pretty quick to mass fire, and once you lose a turret or two you just can't put enough damage on in my experience. Frankly, I can't do damage with only 3 red dice reliably and would prefer having more dice than the multiple shots

Well, you asked what they hype was about and I told you. A lot of super competitive X-Wing players rely on math, and mathematically the TLT is a great weapon. TLT spam is not unbeatable and I never said as such. The ships that can take it all have drawbacks and good players can exploit those drawbacks. Still, it's a reliable weapon and you'll see it often.