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So I have some free time again to play some 40k these days. I'm a little confused about formations when building my lists. Initially I intend to take crusader squads for LRC dedicated transports, so Gladius strike force is off the list atm.

So my questions are, when taking a standard CAD:
1) how do formations work? Can I target separate units with each unit in the formation?
2) Can I use the formations in the codex with a CAD? E.g. 3 vindicators in one HS slot, and have whirlwinds/thunderfires in the other 2?
3) Points willing, Can I have as many formations as I can?
4) If I take 3 crusader squads and give them each an LRC dedicated transport, can the 3 Landraiders work as a formation?


Thanks for the help Dakkadakka

1) unless told otherwise, a formation is just a set group of units. They follow all normal rules for units
2) no idea why you mean. Reread choosing an army. Note a cad is a detachment, and so are formations. You cannot have one unit belonging to more than one detachment. Besides which, 3 vindicators is simply one unit: a vehicle squadron. Not a formation.

3) you may take as many detachments as you have points for. A formation is a type of detachment...

4) again, no. That isn't what a formation is. That would just be a few individual vehicle units, that are not part of the same unit.

djz05 wrote:
So I have some free time again to play some 40k these days. I'm a little confused about formations when building my lists. Initially I intend to take crusader squads for LRC dedicated transports, so Gladius strike force is off the list atm.

So my questions are, when taking a standard CAD:
1) how do formations work? Can I target separate units with each unit in the formation?

Formations are detachments and work just like your CAD would work, except for their special rules. Usually those just give some kind of benefit to all units of the formation, but unless explicitly stated your units are just regular units.

2) Can I use the formations in the codex with a CAD? E.g. 3 vindicators in one HS slot, and have whirlwinds/thunderfires in the other 2?

Yes! Formations are detachments. As long as all your units are part of a detachment, your army is considered Battle-forged.

Battleforged Examples:
Example "bare minimum":
CAD of 1 Captain and 2 Tactical Squads
Supression Force formation of 1 Whirlwind Squadron consisting of 2 Whirlwinds and 1 Land Speeder squadron consisting of 1 Land Speeder

3) Points willing, Can I have as many formations as I can?

Yes, and you may use the same formation over and over again if you like - the only limitation is that you may not have unique models more than once (e.g. Formations that MUST have one specific character in them).

Example "Needs more Whirlwinds":
CAD of 1 Captain, 2 Scout Squads and 3 Whirlwind Squadrons consisting of 3 Whirlwinds each
Supression Force formation of 1 Whirlwind Squadron consisting of 3 Whirlwinds and 1 Land Speeder squadron consisting of 1 Land Speeder
Another Supression Force formation of 1 Whirlwind Squadron consisting of 3 Whirlwinds and 1 Land Speeder squadron consisting of 1 Land Speeder

4) If I take 3 crusader squads and give them each an LRC dedicated transport, can the 3 Landraiders work as a formation?

No, any unit may only be part of one detachment. If the Land Raiders are the dedicated transport of the crusader squads, they're already part of that CAD.
BUT the following List would be Battleforged AND achieve what you want to do:

CAD of 1 Captain, 3 Crusader Squads
Land Raider Spearhead formation of 3 Land Raider Crusaders

You can then embark the Crusaders onto those Land Raiders (during deployment or gameplay, your choice as usual)

*edit* One more thing: You do not HAVE to have a CAD. You could simply pick 3 Formations and that's it, for example like this:

Land Raider Spearhead formation of 3 Land Raider Crusaders
1st Company Task Force of 3 Assault Terminator Squads
Librarian Conclave of 3 Terminator Librarians ML2

For #4 nekooni is almost completely correct.

Everything he said is 100 percent true for CADs, ADs, codex specific detachments using an FOC, and individual formations. It is still mostly true for the Formation of Formations-style detatchment(since we are speaking of Space Marines, that would be the Gladius Strike Force); in those the individual units can still only occupy 1 formation at a time, but those formations also benefit(and must be selected via) from the overall formation. Again in the case of the gladius this means you can activate the tactical doctrine(provided by the gladius) and you scouts in a 10th co strike force formation benefit(as long as they were bought for the gladius and not taken separately).

The Gladius adds a new dimension of complexity in detatchments, but also provide some great benefits.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
For #4 nekooni is almost completely correct.

Everything he said is 100 percent true for CADs, ADs, codex specific detachments using an FOC, and individual formations. It is still mostly true for the Formation of Formations-style detatchment(since we are speaking of Space Marines, that would be the Gladius Strike Force); in those the individual units can still only occupy 1 formation at a time, but those formations also benefit(and must be selected via) from the overall formation. Again in the case of the gladius this means you can activate the tactical doctrine(provided by the gladius) and you scouts in a 10th co strike force formation benefit(as long as they were bought for the gladius and not taken separately).

The Gladius adds a new dimension of complexity in detatchments, but also provide some great benefits.

Well, technically the units in a Demi-Company are still only members of the Demi-Company formation, it's just that they also benefit from the Gladius Strike Force detachment special rules.

nekooni wrote:
Well, technically the units in a Demi-Company are still only members of the Demi-Company formation, it's just that they also benefit from the Gladius Strike Force detachment special rules.

Gladius, and the other similar detachment-formations, include the following exception to the standard "can only belong to one detachment" rule:

Forces of the Space Marines - Choosing an Army wrote:Although units cannot normally belong to more than one Detachment, units from a Formation that is part of a Gladius Strike Force are an exception. They count as part of both their Formation and the Detachment {...}

Forces of the Space Marines - Choosing an Army wrote:Although units cannot normally belong to more than one Detachment, units from a Formation that is part of a Gladius Strike Force are an exception. They count as part of both their Formation and the Detachment {...}

Damn, my memory failed me. I only remembered the part following that which says "and have all associated Command Benefits and special rules. " - for some reason I thought that the "additional membership" was limited to just gaining all the Command Benefits and special rules.

Thanks for the answers, I appreciate it. Gladius just confuses me right now so I'll take one step at a time.

Personally I'm excited about the vindicator squadron and thunderfire squadron. I have 3 of each that I've wanted to bring into games but the old force org chart limits it. Now I can have all the tanks and artillery I want.

djz05 wrote:
Thanks for the answers, I appreciate it. Gladius just confuses me right now so I'll take one step at a time.

When you get down to it it's really simply.

You have to bring one Demi-Company formation and at least one of the Auxiliary formations (e.g. Supression Force).

The Demi-Company could consist of:

1 Captain
1 Assault Marine Squad
3 Tactical Marine Squads
1 Devastator Marine Squad

The Supression Force could consist of:
1 Whirlwind Squadron of 2 Whirlwinds
1 Land Speeder Squadron of 1 Land Speeder

From there on you can add stuff as well - a Dreadnought Squadron or Command Squad can be added to the Demi-Company, you can increase the Squadron size for the Whirlwinds or the Land Speeders - or simply add more formations: You can bring any (and as many) Auxiliary formations you like and up to 3 Command formations.

And you can add a second Demi-Company which - if you take a Chaptain in one and a Chaplain in the other - allows you to purchase Rhinos, Razorbacks and Drop Pods for free (you still have to pay for any upgrades though).

In terms of Benefits the Gladius SF is straight forward: You get to use each of the Combat Doctrines once and it affects all units with the Chapter Tactics special rule that are part of the Gladius SF.

Last thing to note is that Demi-Companies allow you to exchange the Dev and Assault Marines for other units (eg Land Speeder, Assault Bikes (the super-cheap option), Centurions).

Personally I'm excited about the vindicator squadron and thunderfire squadron. I have 3 of each that I've wanted to bring into games but the old force org chart limits it. Now I can have all the tanks and artillery I want.

Then you might also get exited over the Armoured Task Force: 3 Squadrons of either Vindicators,Predators and/or Whirlwinds (can be just a single tank each), a Techmarine and 0-3 Squadrons of Thunderfire Cannons. So with your guys you could go for 3 Squadrons of 1 Vindicator each plus Tech Marine plus 3 Squadrons of Thunder Fire Cannons of 1 Cannon each. Or fill up the other two slots with one Predator each and make the 3rd slot a full 3-tank squadron of Vindicators, gaining the special blast from being a full-strength Vindicator squadron.