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I love the idea of the stomp rule. Just stepping on infantry as a gargantuan monster feels right to me.
But why is it so run over infantry with vehicles in 40k ? Most 40k vehicles just look to be build to to squash some troopers with and allmost all of them go faster then nomal troopers can run.

[edit] This is not a question about how the current tank shock rules make it hard to splat them. Those rules are quite clear.
This is a question about why it is made that hard.


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It seems completely insane that bikes get unavoidable impact hits (HoW) while you can always evade landraiders and dark eldar skimmers at full ramming speed if you keep your nerves.

oldzoggy wrote:
I love the idea of the stomp rule. Just stepping on infantry as a gargantuan monster feels right to me.
But why is it so run over infantry with vehicles in 40k ? Most 40k vehicles just look to be build to to squash some troopers with and allmost all of them go faster then nomal troopers can run.

[edit] This is not a question about how the current tank shock rules make it hard to splat them. Those rules are quite clear.
This is a question about why it is made that hard.

Honestly, I think the reason was to get away from the Parking Lot games. Being able to run over infantry is extremely useful, the last time it was used to great effect in the real world was I believe in Desert Storm where the Army and Marine Tanks would literally bury the Iraqi's in their fighting lines by running them over with bulldozer blades attached to the front of the tanks.

The current iteration of Tank shock make it borderline impossible to do this and I do believe it was to weaken vehicles so people didn't take 4-10 a game

Same reason you can't fire into melee: it'd make a particular playstyle crazily powerful.

Bad Rule writing, if you ask me.
What should have been instructions to move the Model by the shortest distance before checking to see if any of the Crunch conditions had been met became instructions to move the Model in a way that avoids those conditions....

Thematics.

Same as the AP system, prior to 3rd edition 40k used the same save system as Warhammer Fantasy. When they introduced the AP system in its place they stated in a "designers notes" (I forget if it was WD or the actual rulebook) that the AP system was introduced so people would play Space Marines properly, IE: advancing proudly across open ground instead of hiding behind bushes.

The ineffective nature of Tank Shock in the game rules reflects the fact that the game designers want it to be an ineffective tactic, just like Space Marines hiding behind bushes.

Death or Glory more or less represents that. If the unit fails the attack, it's dead.

It would be pretty fun having a rhino plow its way through an entire board of gaunts with the driver laughing like the joker mwahahahaha

2e had it, 3e removed it and intro'd tank shock which is a spastic mechanic. Eventually the time came to escalate sales and they needed a rule to push the new $200 kits, presto, you can buy your way to nostalgia.

Deffroller...
I don't know if it still exists in the newer Orks codex, but it mowed us down loads in the older book.

It exists.

But you wouldn't know it because it's sooo bad now.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Death or Glory more or less represents that. If the unit fails the attack, it's dead.

wrong actually, the rule is that 1 model from the squad chooses to death or glory and if it can't immobilize or wreck/destroy the vehicle then that ONE model is destroyed utterly, everyone else just gets out of the way.

In its current iteration there is absolutely no reason to ever sit there and be tank shocked because the only penalty to running away from it is that you have to move to the side or backwards a bit.

And for the Deff Rolla Question.

Last Codex the Deff Rolla inflicted D6 S10 hits automatically on the squad/vehicle it hit. THEN if they chose to death or Glory the Deff Rolla inflicted another D6 S10 hits on that same squad. It was pretty awesome.

The new codex has the Deff Rolla inflicted D3 S10 hits on a squad ONLY if it chooses to death or glory AND it fails to disable the vehicle. So you can literally negate the effectiveness of the Deff Rolla simply by choose not to death or glory and by moving 3 inches to the side. .....useless.

Because it made command and conquer suck.

Probably the tanks aren't moving at full speed, even when they do in the game, since they are already in the actual combat they might have to move carefully due to enemy weapons, shocking their own troops, etc.

So if the movement is slowed in combat conditions as I think usually is when a vehicle + infantry assault goes irl tanks/vehicles try to stay near their troops for support it wouldn't be so hard to avoid it as in the rules.

Within the context of the rules and the 40K 'Verse:

I'm a Tau Fire Warrior. I can move 6" in the move phase, run 6" in the shooting phase, and assault 2d6". I could potentially move 18" +d6 more in the post assault phase (Fire Warrior's are known for their 1337 close combat skillz). Oh look! It's a Rhino! at 14". Don't have to worry about that until next turn. Pew pew pew. <next turn> Oh look! It's a Rhino moving at cruising speed! pew pew pew <next turn> OK. Finally! Looks like that Rhino can tank shock us. How is it still alive? Oh well. Make my leadership test and step out of the way. What's that? My Pathfinder buddies light it up with marker lights? Fire Warriors! Stand and fire! pew pew pew

Guess the point I'm making is that when your vehicles in the game move at about the same speed as the infantry, it's surprising that you can tank shock at all.

Because like in the real world, its really hard to purposely run someone over if they know you are coming and can do something about it.

That incident in Desert Storm was actually an army Engineering Battalion and they didn't have infantry support so rather than keep taking fire the commander ordered them to fill in the trenches. He actually was booted out because of that. Whiney peacenik scum said it was cruel and lobbied higher despite the fact it saved his men from the people shooting at them and eliminated an enemy strongpoint. Its the Iraqi's fault they didn't run to get out of the way.

agree, even at 60 MPH you'd be able to hit one or two guys in a squad, but thats about it. Most would be able to get out of the way.


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 Skinnereal wrote:
Deffroller...
I don't know if it still exists in the newer Orks codex, but it mowed us down loads in the older book.

and was one of the worst non-weapons in the fracking game...

Saw an Ork Parking lot that had them on every tank and all they did was move as fast as they could, hit multiple units/tanks, turn around to do it again. Oh and Big Mek had a KFF to give the juicier ones a save. I would have been fine if it was a weapon upgrade and could have blown them off once in a while, I seemed to get that result all the wime but it wasn't a weapon.

fun times

fun times....

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
agree, even at 60 MPH you'd be able to hit one or two guys in a squad, but thats about it. Most would be able to get out of the way.


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 Skinnereal wrote:
Deffroller...
I don't know if it still exists in the newer Orks codex, but it mowed us down loads in the older book.

and was one of the worst non-weapons in the fracking game...

Saw an Ork Parking lot that had them on every tank and all they did was move as fast as they could, hit multiple units/tanks, turn around to do it again. Oh and Big Mek had a KFF to give the juicier ones a save. I would have been fine if it was a weapon upgrade and could have blown them off once in a while, I seemed to get that result all the wime but it wasn't a weapon.

fun times

fun times....

Eldar player complaining about an Ork having 1 OP thing...

Tank Shock can lead to funny things though, like a Trukk splatting a C'Tan because it failed to Stun/Immobilise/Wreck when the C'Tan did it's Death or Glory attack.

The more useful aspect of Tank Shock is to cause Morale checks, potentially making enemy units fall back - especially useful if they're near their edge of the board.

Superheavy Vehicles can Thunderblitz of course, which adds damage to the unit on top of the regular Tank Shock/Ram effects.

 GoonBandito wrote:
Tank Shock can lead to funny things though, like a Trukk splatting a C'Tan because it failed to Stun/Immobilise/Wreck when the C'Tan did it's Death or Glory attack.

The more useful aspect of Tank Shock is to cause Morale checks, potentially making enemy units fall back - especially useful if they're near their edge of the board.

Superheavy Vehicles can Thunderblitz of course, which adds damage to the unit on top of the regular Tank Shock/Ram effects.

the chances of actually immobilizing, wrecking or destroying a vehicle is not good enough to risk an expensive model. even a melta has to roll a 4+ to immobilize

How about when people take advantage of fomation free vehicles to create situations where the models cant move out of the way. For example a rhino or two position themselves into a V shape around a squad (or even a monstrous creature lol) and make it so the unit is unable to move back or out of the way, then tank shock, facing the death or glory, and if it survives the death or glory, a rhino could kill a wraithlord.

Not that likely, until GW made making a parking lot easy with battle company.

oldzoggy wrote:
I love the idea of the stomp rule. Just stepping on infantry as a gargantuan monster feels right to me.
But why is it so run over infantry with vehicles in 40k ? Most 40k vehicles just look to be build to to squash some troopers with and allmost all of them go faster then nomal troopers can run.

[edit] This is not a question about how the current tank shock rules make it hard to splat them. Those rules are quite clear.
This is a question about why it is made that hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It seems completely insane that bikes get unavoidable impact hits (HoW) while you can always evade landraiders and dark eldar skimmers at full ramming speed if you keep your nerves.

GW basically didn't want vehicles to have an "assault" capability. I think the "tank shock" rules work reasonably well for how most infantry would respond to a tank running at them (they'd scatter and get out of the way unless stuck in an entrenched hole).

However, I think that tanks are atrociously incapable in an assault. There should be some danger in assaulting a vehicle, treads crushing and grinding, anti-gravitic motors blasting people around, turrets swaying around to throw people off, etc.

Here is an incredibly bad diagram of what im talking about made on my phone.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Death or Glory more or less represents that. If the unit fails the attack, it's dead.

wrong actually, the rule is that 1 model from the squad chooses to death or glory and if it can't immobilize or wreck/destroy the vehicle then that ONE model is destroyed utterly, everyone else just gets out of the way.

In its current iteration there is absolutely no reason to ever sit there and be tank shocked because the only penalty to running away from it is that you have to move to the side or backwards a bit.

And for the Deff Rolla Question.

Last Codex the Deff Rolla inflicted D6 S10 hits automatically on the squad/vehicle it hit. THEN if they chose to death or Glory the Deff Rolla inflicted another D6 S10 hits on that same squad. It was pretty awesome.

The new codex has the Deff Rolla inflicted D3 S10 hits on a squad ONLY if it chooses to death or glory AND it fails to disable the vehicle. So you can literally negate the effectiveness of the Deff Rolla simply by choose not to death or glory and by moving 3 inches to the side. .....useless.

Please note that a Deffrolla also increases your AV by 2 in a ram (S10 ram and you're AV16) and lets you reroll difficult terrain checks. But yeah the Deffrolla doesn't work vs infantry anymore. I still use my rolla because it's what I've got modeled on one of my wagons. It's not the worst thing in the world but the ram is pretty much always better.

If I hadn't used my ram as the replacement jaw for the destroyed Stompa I picked up, it'd be on my Battlewagon.


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The days before the FAQ where grabbin' claws, boarding planks and deffrollas were the best anti air in the game were among the most fun id ever had with my orks.