Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Warhammer already got a end time event where Chaos won. What do you think the end time for 40k would be if it also happens? Would Chaos also win in 40k just like fantasy?

Most obvious choice would probably be Chaos flooding the galaxy or Tyranids main fleet arriving
Secondary most likely choice would be Orks uniting, Necron fully awaken, or Imperium.with the Emperor's resurrection and the return of the Primarchs.
Impossible choices would be Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and the other xenos empires.

Wild cards might be Old One's return, Omega C'tan, or maybe whatever is chasing the Tyranids if they decide to go with this. Or maybe Enslaver Plague?

Which race or races do you think might be the victor/survivors for the end times?

You have to realise that the End Times storyline was not an honest progression of any narrative (it actually went completely contrary to the Storm of Chaos event), it was simply a cynical way to reboot the universe.

The only reason they'd do an End Times-style event is if they wanted to reboot or totally refresh the product line. And with 40k being their bread and butter, there's almost zero chance Games Workshop will take such a risk. If it did start to go down the tubes, then they'd likely have Chaos win, just so they can magically reboot everything. Or use some Old Ones/Necron/Eldar magic button to reset everything.

I wouldn't expect them to have it make sense, or be true to the story. After all, the story only exists to sell models and books. Once the models and books stop shifting, necessitating a reboot, the last thing they'll care about is narrative consistency in a failed product.

I don't imagine that would happen until the 40K product line started to fail. That being said, Orks winning would be really cool.

An End-Times event for 40k would be fine if they didn't can the entire universe afterwards like they did with Fantasy.

I'm honestly one of the rare few who's happy they don't advance the story. The premise is fine enough for me, and there's virtually infinite space in a Galaxy of millions of worlds to tell compelling stories.

I think most of the advancements they've made since Rogue Trader have actually reduced the magic for me each time. I prefer it when they tell stories in 40k a horizontal fashion, not a vertical one. As in stories that expand the universe without actively progressing things or making large retcons.

The Tau are a great example. I have nothing against them as say a minor Xenos species in a single sector, but represent them as such, Making them a major army gives them undue prominence and dilutes the rest of the premise. Keep them as a side story, and a minor army. Why do people need their factions to be huge threats in some fashion to field them? Regional or local threats are fine, especially considering how stretched the major factions are. I know the Tau are local, but they're pitched as a potential sucessor to the Imperium if left unchecked.

The Necrons are a cool addition. Just not when they change/reveal the backstory to accomodate them. If we don't know the ins and outs of the DAOT, then why do we know in detail soemthing that happened hundreds of millions of years ago? Just hint at it. Have them as a mysterious, vague presence, with a backstory shrouded in myth. It worked for everyone else.

Necromunda is a great example of that for me. An entire scenario and model range that added to the story without advancing it or taking away from anything else that exists. Horizontal storytelling, not vertical.

This is how I think the end would happen for 40K -

The Emperor Dies which causes:
- Warp rift starts to fully break open on Terra
- The Primarchs (Leman Russ, Corvus, Vulkan, Dorn (possibly)) emerge from the rift fighting against a tide of Daemons
- The Custodes evacuate the Primarchs from the Imperial Palace and then Terra
- The High Lords and any other high level officials evacuate Terra as well.
- The Warp rift expands until it becomes a new, smaller Eye of Terror.
- The Lion awakens on the Rock (the emperor's death having signalled the Imperium's need)
- The Loss of the Astronomicon causes warp travel across the Imperium to become more deadly (millions if not billions of ships are lost), forcing ships to make tiny warp jumps in order to go anywhere accurately.

The Dark Eldar send forth all their raiding fleets, eager to make use of all the confusion in the Imperium at large.
With so many Deldar gone hunting, Primarch Khan uses the opportunity to escape from Comorragh.

The Daemon Primarchs (Fulgrim, Angron, Magnus, Lorgar, Perturabo, Mortarion) stalk forth from the Original Eye of Terror with all the forces they can muster.
Cadia falls under the newest Black Crusade (led by the Daemon Primarchs who sacrificed Abaddon).
The forces of Chaos sweep across the galaxy and seem unstoppable.

The Necron awakening rapidly accelerates causing the Eldar to go on total war footing (focussing all their effort on the Necrons, leaving Chaos to the Imperium to deal with). The Eldar and the Necrons battle across the Galaxy, fighting each other with reckless abandon and largely ignoring other threats unless attacked by them.

The Main Tyranid fleets arrive and the Tau Empire (whilst initially planning to expand into the now confused Imperium) is forced to focus everything on fighting back the Tyranids. Elsewhere, the Nids cut great swathes through Galaxy, seemingly unopposed by the crippled Imperium.

Orks create some Waaaghs and have some fun.

The subsequent chaos (forgive the pun), causes the majority of the Imperium to turn to prayer as they have never done before.
This causes the Emperor to finish his ascension into a warp God.

----------------------------------- The Stalemate:

Legion of the Damned Ships pour forth from the new Eye of Terror (where Terra was so it would probably be called the Eye of Terra). Legion of the Damned Angels (Really just the Emperor's Daemons) appear across the galaxy to shore up the Imperium's defences. The Warp Calms across Imperial space allowing ships to travel through the warp in stability.

Girlyman's stasis crypt turns off and he rises, healed by the boons of the Emperor.

Alpharius/Omegon reveal their true colours and rip the heart out of the newest Black Crusade and delaying it considerably to allow the Imperium time to gather its strength.

The Loyalist Primarchs (Leman, Corvus, Vulkan, Lion, Khan, Rowboat, Dorn(possibly)) unite and lead a Crusade to meet the forces of Chaos rampaging across the Galaxy. Alpharius/Omegon is already in open battle against Chaos.



Summary:

In the End, the Galaxy will be divided in two with the forces of Chaos on one side (pouring forth continuously from the Eye of Terror) and what remains of the Imperium (supported by the Emperor) on the other. There are more Loyalist Primarchs but that is balanced by the fact that the Chaos Primarchs are Daemons too. In effect, the galaxy becomes like WWI with a static front that never moves very much either way.

All the Orks in the Galaxy are attracted to the great battle across the middle and do what they do best.

Both Chaos and the Imperium respond to Eldar/Necron Engagements in their space respectively.

Both Chaos and the Imperium respond to Tyranid incursions in their space respectively.

Tau are stuck in a bitter duel to the death with Tyranids.

Deldar keep on raiding indiscriminately.

 Otto Weston wrote:
(led by the Daemon Primarchs who sacrificed Abaddon).

I would like it if they sacrificed Abbadon to bring back Horus.
I don't know how that would work. An Old One Artifact maybe?

The way I imagine it, given the location of both Terra and the EoT, that would take up the western half of the galaxy, with the eastern side being a 4-way roiling hellscape of war between the Necrons, Tyranids, Tau, and Eldar.
The primary thing is that the Tau would need some kind of defense or reason that they wouldn't get wiped.
I think that they're stronger than everyone gives them credit for, but they would still get consumed by the vastly larger Tyranid Force, unless the Tau are just fighting a tendril (maybe a primary tendril?).
The whole point could revolve around that they're going to all die, which is pretty grimdark I guess.

Roks fall, everyone dies.

Just want to watch GW burn to the ground.

 Mantorok wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
(led by the Daemon Primarchs who sacrificed Abaddon).

I would like it if they sacrificed Abbadon to bring back Horus.
I don't know how that would work. An Old One Artifact maybe?

The way I imagine it, given the location of both Terra and the EoT, that would take up the western half of the galaxy, with the eastern side being a 4-way roiling hellscape of war between the Necrons, Tyranids, Tau, and Eldar.
The primary thing is that the Tau would need some kind of defense or reason that they wouldn't get wiped.
I think that they're stronger than everyone gives them credit for, but they would still get consumed by the vastly larger Tyranid Force, unless the Tau are just fighting a tendril (maybe a primary tendril?).
The whole point could revolve around that they're going to all die, which is pretty grimdark I guess.

There's no bringing back Horus. The Emperor absolutely obliterated his soul when he killed him. Not even the Ruinous Powers can fix what's wrong with Horus now.

 Psienesis wrote:

There's no bringing back Horus. The Emperor absolutely obliterated his soul when he killed him. Not even the Ruinous Powers can fix what's wrong with Horus now.

I know, but I want Horus back. Horus was awesome and deserves to be in 40k, especially if everyone else is coming back.
Maybe the Emperor-as-god recreates him?
That would bring back Horus.
I mean, he made them all the first time....

Much can be said about the Emperor.

"Forgiving", however, is not one of those things.

 Psienesis wrote:
Much can be said about the Emperor.

"Forgiving", however, is not one of those things.

He did love his sons though.

Even when Magnus destroyed his Webway, he didn't want him killed, Tzeentch made it so Russ received that instead.
He was even unwilling to believe that Horus was actually evil, and wanted to return him to his side.

The Emperor was ruthless and unforgiving when confronted with the weakness of men.
But he did love his children.

 Otto Weston wrote:
This is how I think the end would happen for 40K -

The Emperor Dies which causes:
- Warp rift starts to fully break open on Terra
- The Primarchs (Leman Russ, Corvus, Vulkan, Dorn (possibly)) emerge from the rift fighting against a tide of Daemons
- The Custodes evacuate the Primarchs from the Imperial Palace and then Terra
- The High Lords and any other high level officials evacuate Terra as well.
- The Warp rift expands until it becomes a new, smaller Eye of Terror.
- The Lion awakens on the Rock (the emperor's death having signalled the Imperium's need)
- The Loss of the Astronomicon causes warp travel across the Imperium to become more deadly (millions if not billions of ships are lost), forcing ships to make tiny warp jumps in order to go anywhere accurately.

The Dark Eldar send forth all their raiding fleets, eager to make use of all the confusion in the Imperium at large.
With so many Deldar gone hunting, Primarch Khan uses the opportunity to escape from Comorragh.

The Daemon Primarchs (Fulgrim, Angron, Magnus, Lorgar, Perturabo, Mortarion) stalk forth from the Original Eye of Terror with all the forces they can muster.
Cadia falls under the newest Black Crusade (led by the Daemon Primarchs who sacrificed Abaddon).
The forces of Chaos sweep across the galaxy and seem unstoppable.

The Necron awakening rapidly accelerates causing the Eldar to go on total war footing (focussing all their effort on the Necrons, leaving Chaos to the Imperium to deal with). The Eldar and the Necrons battle across the Galaxy, fighting each other with reckless abandon and largely ignoring other threats unless attacked by them.

The Main Tyranid fleets arrive and the Tau Empire (whilst initially planning to expand into the now confused Imperium) is forced to focus everything on fighting back the Tyranids. Elsewhere, the Nids cut great swathes through Galaxy, seemingly unopposed by the crippled Imperium.

Orks create some Waaaghs and have some fun.

The subsequent chaos (forgive the pun), causes the majority of the Imperium to turn to prayer as they have never done before.
This causes the Emperor to finish his ascension into a warp God.

----------------------------------- The Stalemate:

Legion of the Damned Ships pour forth from the new Eye of Terror (where Terra was so it would probably be called the Eye of Terra). Legion of the Damned Angels (Really just the Emperor's Daemons) appear across the galaxy to shore up the Imperium's defences. The Warp Calms across Imperial space allowing ships to travel through the warp in stability.

Girlyman's stasis crypt turns off and he rises, healed by the boons of the Emperor.

Alpharius/Omegon reveal their true colours and rip the heart out of the newest Black Crusade and delaying it considerably to allow the Imperium time to gather its strength.

The Loyalist Primarchs (Leman, Corvus, Vulkan, Lion, Khan, Rowboat, Dorn(possibly)) unite and lead a Crusade to meet the forces of Chaos rampaging across the Galaxy. Alpharius/Omegon is already in open battle against Chaos.



Summary:

In the End, the Galaxy will be divided in two with the forces of Chaos on one side (pouring forth continuously from the Eye of Terror) and what remains of the Imperium (supported by the Emperor) on the other. There are more Loyalist Primarchs but that is balanced by the fact that the Chaos Primarchs are Daemons too. In effect, the galaxy becomes like WWI with a static front that never moves very much either way.

All the Orks in the Galaxy are attracted to the great battle across the middle and do what they do best.

Both Chaos and the Imperium respond to Eldar/Necron Engagements in their space respectively.

Both Chaos and the Imperium respond to Tyranid incursions in their space respectively.

Tau are stuck in a bitter duel to the death with Tyranids.

Deldar keep on raiding indiscriminately.

You forgot about Kaldor Draigo

 Mantorok wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Much can be said about the Emperor.

"Forgiving", however, is not one of those things.

He did love his sons though.

Even when Magnus destroyed his Webway, he didn't want him killed, Tzeentch made it so Russ received that instead.
He was even unwilling to believe that Horus was actually evil, and wanted to return him to his side.

The Emperor was ruthless and unforgiving when confronted with the weakness of men.
But he did love his children.

No? It was Horus, as the Warmaster, who told Russ to wipe out Prospero. At the time, Russ had no reason to doubt the command.

And then Horus struck Ollanius Pious down, and the Emp knew he was too far gone. And so the Emp Ended him. Forever.

I concur, Horus is beyond gone. To bring back would be a major retcon and would really change the dynamic of how his fight with the Emperor ended.

Hierophant wrote:
You have to realise that the End Times storyline was not an honest progression of any narrative (it actually went completely contrary to the Storm of Chaos event), it was simply a cynical way to reboot the universe.

That's not strictly true, the Felix and Gotrek books are set against the beginnings and growth of the end times, from long before they became an actual product. Arek Daemonclaw's failed invasion followed by Archaon taking over, Nagash making moves to return, Teclis investigating the roots of it all. Storm of magic aside, the core novel series was definitely telling that story (although I'm not saying for a second that it was planned or deliberate.)

I think 40k could survive a progression, Abaddon on terra, the Emperor dead and the imperium shaken to the point of break down. No reason why not, no races would have to be destroyed, the imperium would still exist, but without it's symbolic heart, and we'd have a new and expanding eye of terror. Throw in some bigger nid monsters, some new tau suits and new walkers/mc for all and no harm is really done.

Also, the Tales of the End Times is the entire setting of 40k. It ends when you put the models away in the box for the last time and walk away, deciding that the galaxy ended however you want to.

Isn't the current time point of 40k called 'The Time of Ending' anyway?

It's hinted in some places that the Chaos Forces will betray Abaddon; many have lost interest in the Long War, instead hoping to bring about what they call 'the Eternal War'.