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Hi all,

Could someone explain to me why in rulebook (don't remember page number), it's under: Unit types -> Vehicles -> Vehicles and Cover -> Picture 2
Rhino get's 4+ cover save from the ruin?
It doesn't look like being within the ruin (and that rule does not apply to vehicles in general);

Are vehicles exception to the 5+ cover being obscured by anything? Thus ruins grant them 4+ when we shoot at vehicles just through them (25% obscured ofc)?
Yet if it would be single Marine behind that ruin he would receive only 5+ cover right?

It's a 5+ cover by all the rules, but the example box is a straight c+p from 6th when it would have gotten a 4+. Most people (including me) still play that being obscured by ruins grants a 4+ (Despite that not being RAW)

Vehicles receive cover if they are obscured by anything not just ruins. Starting at 25%. If the facing is fully obscured, the vehicle improves its cover by 1.

Ruins giving 4+ cover makes more sense then them giving 5+ but this is currently no longer in the rules and thus a house rule and should be discussed before the game.

Well it's not only picutre.
Last bullet point in Vehicles and Cover - Obscured Targets:
"If the target is obscured (...), it must take a cover save against it, exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a Wound (for example, a 5+ cover save for a Citadel Wood, a 4+ cover save for a ruin and so on)."

It look's like vehicles receive better save than anything else by being obscured by ruins. And it is the RaW.

Hack and Paste at it's finest....
These pictures where first used in what Edition?

The text is fine, the picture is just unclear.

The cover save for being obscured by ruins is 5+. The cover save for being in ruins is a 4+.

If you look at the pucture beneath you can see that the ruins are on some flag-stones(can barely make out a difference between the flagstones and the same color dirt behind it); the flagstones are likely the border for the ruins piece, therefore the rhino likely has a track(or, gasp, 2!) on the flagstones therefore IN THE RUINS!.

But on a more serious note: all pictures are simply illustrations for the text, the text in the rule is the actual rules. Captions under the text are explaining the situation as an example and their specifics should be ignored for the written rules.

Or as I have stated for years now: ignore the pretty pictures and follow the written rules, the pictures are just pretty.

Ok, thanks

Though vehicles never benefit from being "in" terrain - they must always be at least 25% obscured to receive the benefit.

I know, the 1-2 tracks-links in the terrain for the better save was a joke; that is why the actual rules bit begins with "on a more serious note"

So does an imperial knight with a toe in ruins get a 4+?

No. Not without additional special rules(which they don't normally have)

Why does the rhino get the save but not a knight? Cause at a walker?

Rhinos do not get a save for being in the terrain; just obscurred by it.

No vehicles get a save for being in terrain whithout additional special rules.

Ruins say a model in a ruins gets a 4+ cover. I don't get what you mean?

 Icelord wrote:
Ruins say a model in a ruins gets a 4+ cover. I don't get what you mean?

Rules then go on to say that being in terrain doesn't apply to vehicles - they must be obscured.

 Icelord wrote:
Ruins say a model in a ruins gets a 4+ cover. I don't get what you mean?

Please see the second bullet point of 'Vehicles and Cover - Obscured Targets' in the Vehicles section of the rulebook.

Thank you!

So a vehicle may never get a 4+ cover save?

 deviantduck wrote:
So a vehicle may never get a 4+ cover save?

It can if it is obscured by a ruin according to this rule:

Last bullet point in Vehicles and Cover - Obscured Targets:
"If the target is obscured (...), it must take a cover save against it, exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a Wound (for example, a 5+ cover save for a Citadel Wood, a 4+ cover save for a ruin and so on)."

Would this be a fair interpretation?:

-A rhino is on the CLEAR bottom floor of a large Ruin. There is nothing between it and the unit firing at it. It then gets no save at all.

-Now, there is a partially demolished wall, or a row of barrels, in the ruin, obscuring the Rhino in the ruin from the unit firing at it. The Rhino can now take the 4+ Ruins Cover Save.


EDIT: Ah, DeathReaper posted just as I was typing this out.

Things might start to get interesting if the rhino is in ruin area but is obscured by something else then the ruin.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Things might start to get interesting if the rhino is in ruin area but is obscured by something else then the ruin.

Why?

It doesn't get complicated. Vehicles need to be obscured. Read the section on terrain and it tells you what cover you get from things like walls, as well as the cover save the you get from being in a ruin if you're a model with wounds. For vehicles, as has been stated, you need to be obscured by terrain, not just in it. So a rhino in rubble that doesn't obscure 25% of the rhino will receive zero cover, even though a wraithknight in that place will get a 4+. Do the rules make sense? No. Are they clear? Yes.

The rhino gets a cover save from whatever is obscuring it. Nothin else

Then were does the +1 to cover save apply when the facing target of the vehicle cannot be seen? So a vehicle can hardly bee seen but may the corner from an obscured ruin. Does it get a 3+?

Yes, sort of.

What you need for that situation is to be at pretty much that perfect angle where you are in 1 arc(lets say the front), but the vehicle is completely blocked in los from the front of the vehicle; now you are also off to the side of the vehicle(still withing the front X radius, i.e. the open triangle in that "X" on top), and so can see the side of the vehicle: the vehicle now gets the 3+ cover from the 4+ terrain that it is behind.