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Thinking of rocking a list with fate weaver and 2 lords of change. Is it worth paying for their greater gifts hoping for either the 4+ fnp? All daemons can harness maelific powers right? Lastly, their offensive output. Can they really punish units offensively? Could anyone give me a 7th edition primer on them?

Well I used to use one quite a bit, two greater and one lessor gift. Swap the lessor for the staff of smash. Then roll on divination and fly around the board shooting things and being really hard to kill.

Or you can run around and summon daemons like there is no tomorrow, but the staff and boons turn him into a melee beast.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Well I used to use one quite a bit, two greater and one lessor gift. Swap the lessor for the staff of smash. Then roll on divination and fly around the board shooting things and being really hard to kill.

Or you can run around and summon daemons like there is no tomorrow, but the staff and boons turn him into a melee beast.

I'm just concerned about getting him into combat when he has to land for a full turn first. Nurgle DP just seem smashier and can hover with a 2+ jink. Are lords of change strong with the tzeentch powers? How does flickering fire work with the new rules? Here's the list I'm thinking:

Fateweaver
Lord of change, ML 3, grimoire, lesser
Lord of change, ML 3, lesser
Belakor

10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
20 daemonettes

8 screamers of tzeentch

You could potentially run the grimoire from a swooping LOC onto a gliding LOC and roll for cursed earth to use the gliding one as melee. It's a big investment.

This list with a LoC Warlord went 12th at Nova, so it obviously has its uses

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/12th-Todd-Silber-NovaOpen-2015.pdf

Flickering fire under the new rules ain't so good.

But if you roll well on div and gifts, you get to reroll everything.

Lords of Change that get Precognition (Divination power) are pretty good - re-rolls To Hit, To Wound and Save is amazing. Always buy them a Lesser Reward and swap it for the Staff of Change so they're S8 too. I'd rate them over a Bloodthirster (the Unfettered Fury/Wrath of Khorne ones anyway - Insensate Rage's Strength D is just too good) for general melee combat effectiveness.

I'd generally not Swoop with a FMC unless it's being used purely as a gunboat (like Flyrants) or as a Force Multiplier (like Fateweaver). You might be able to pull it off if you dumped all your Warp Charge into firing off Flickering Fire/the otherTzeentch Witchfires but then you've dumped all your Warpcharge into getting off Flickering Fire....

So did you guys think my list was decent?

I just get worried about keeping them alive if they're swooping. My list has 16+d6 warp points. I was thinking putting a point in demonology, and 2 points in divination. Belakor and fateweaver fly around and psychic shriek stuff and invis, while hopefully grimoired screamers and invisible daemonettes apply a lot of ground pressure. The lords of change summon and flickering fire at warp charge 2, and belakor hovers while jinking with a 2+.

I just thought instead of buying disc heralds, I can just buy Lords of change.

Lord of Changes just aren't that great in 7ed. As a CC unit it has the punch (especially with precog) but aren't that durable unless you get real lucky with greater rewards and psychic powers. And now that they have to stand around on the ground for at least one turn they are probably going to die before they do alot. As a flying gunboat they aren't great with the new psychic phase as it takes a lot of warp charges to do much damage.

They are functional with a little luck and are totally viable for casual play. They just aren't competitive.

If you're taking Be'Lakor just stand them within 6" of him and cast Shrouding on yourself every turn. Bam all your LOCs have 2+ Jinks now and you can laugh. Besides that, dont bother taking the Daemonettes or Screamers, invest in 2 Greater and 1 Lesser on your LOC without the Grimoire. That way he can be a tanky guy and generally will be focus fired. With any luck you can get him into CC and wack some people with your Staff of Go F-Yourself.

Your Horrors should be using their lives to summon more Daemonettes and Pink Horrors. Maybe invest in a Herald of Tzeentch with Portaglyph so you can potentially get more WCs and Daemonettes each turn by chance. Helps saturate your WCs and gives expendable troops your opponent might have to dedicate fire upon in order to move you off an objective.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
If you're taking Be'Lakor just stand them within 6" of him and cast Shrouding on yourself every turn. Bam all your LOCs have 2+ Jinks now and you can laugh.

2+ re-rollable Jink saves on the Lords of Change at that as well, since Tzeentch Demons re-roll saving throws of 1. Expect all the firepower to be directed at Belakor in that case.

The advantage there, is that Be'Lakor can swoop up the table at minimum swooping speed, whilst the Lords Of Change can glide and run (since they probably won't have a shooting phase).

That means they can keep up with him, but he's Swooping and hence Hard To Hit, whilst they've got rerollable 2+ cover save trickery.

As with most daemon armies, start with Be'Lakor.
That would also be a way to deliver non-nurgle daemon princes and bloodthirsters up the board. Nice thought!

locarno24 wrote:
The advantage there, is that Be'Lakor can swoop up the table at minimum swooping speed, whilst the Lords Of Change can glide and run (since they probably won't have a shooting phase).

That means they can keep up with him, but he's Swooping and hence Hard To Hit, whilst they've got rerollable 2+ cover save trickery.

As with most daemon armies, start with Be'Lakor.
That would also be a way to deliver non-nurgle daemon princes and bloodthirsters up the board. Nice thought!

Wow that's nasty.

In my list...

Invis daemonette blob, shrouding belakor and protect LOC, grimoire screamers with cursed earth for 2++ reroll able, and cursed earth fatey for a 3++ reroll ones.