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Made in ua
Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter




Ukraine, Mariupol

Recent game I had a conflict with my opponent about cover saves in river. My point is that river does not confer any save because:
When one of the following rules refers to a model being ‘in cover behind’ a piece of terrain, this means that the model is at least 25% obscured by the scenery, and therefore eligible for a cover save. On the other hand, when one of the following rules refers to a model being ‘in’ a piece of terrain, this means that model, or some part of it, is actually standing on the piece of scenery, whether it is obscured from view or not.

and
Difficult terrain slows down models wishing to move through it. It includes areas of rubble, woods, ruins, rocky outcrops, boggy ground, low walls, tanglewire, barricades, steep hills, streams and other shallow water, as well as terrain features that combine several of these types. Unless specifically noted otherwise, a model in cover behind difficult terrain has a 5+ cover save.

You cannot be behind river (stream, shallow water) so you newer can have cover save from it.
Am I right? And why stream and shallow water are mentioned in BRB? Can they somehow confer cover save?

4000
FB 2000
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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




General rule of thumb when starting a game, make sure you both agree what does, and does not grant cover.

It is totally dependent on the players. Terrain for epicnes can make a battlefield look stunning. Terrain for gameplay is a hassle because it's always in the way! So it's not uncommon to have a terrain 'area' without physical trees and rocks to obscure your models.

Using that logic, sure, I can see a river granting cover. So long as they play it where they are slowed by difficult terrain.
   
Made in ca
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker





Ottawa, Canada

Adding to what Datastream said - if you have any dispute then rolloff
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






Option 1: talk with your opponent before the battle about terrain 7th terrain rules are not the best ones ever. This is not the only thing that could come up. Discussing it before the battle is simple, discussing it while making the saves is almost a guarantee for heated discussions

option 2 : Make an half submerged copy of your army.
Like this

Spoiler:


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/08 14:57:15


Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while 
   
Made in us
Not as Good as a Minion





Astonished of Heck

Asadjud wrote:
Recent game I had a conflict with my opponent about cover saves in river. My point is that river does not confer any save because:
When one of the following rules refers to a model being ‘in cover behind’ a piece of terrain, this means that the model is at least 25% obscured by the scenery, and therefore eligible for a cover save. On the other hand, when one of the following rules refers to a model being ‘in’ a piece of terrain, this means that model, or some part of it, is actually standing on the piece of scenery, whether it is obscured from view or not.

and
Difficult terrain slows down models wishing to move through it. It includes areas of rubble, woods, ruins, rocky outcrops, boggy ground, low walls, tanglewire, barricades, steep hills, streams and other shallow water, as well as terrain features that combine several of these types. Unless specifically noted otherwise, a model in cover behind difficult terrain has a 5+ cover save.

You cannot be behind river (stream, shallow water) so you newer can have cover save from it.
Am I right? And why stream and shallow water are mentioned in BRB? Can they somehow confer cover save?

Many rivers and streams usually have vegetation growing on their banks. This vegetation can provide as much Cover as being waist deep in the water itself.

That's as good as I can think of, off hand.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
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Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

It's quite common for water features to grant cover to models in them.

 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

A bigger question for me is:
Did the Datasheet supplied with this Terrain say anything about the Cover Saves granted?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/08 19:54:52


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in ca
Irked Necron Immortal






Halifax, NS

Agreed with others. You should have agreed with opponent before game start, and if in contention roll off

But I would play it as 5+ Difficult terrain

 
   
Made in ie
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Dublin

From a purely common sense perspective, being submerged up to the waist in a body of water, milk or other fluid should provide a defensive penalty if anything, not a bonus. Whatever physical protection the water would provide is outweighed by the soldier movement being slowed, and therefore being a much easier target to hit.

The only exception I can think is if it was only a knee height body of water or less, with a high enough bank to take cover behind, beeing similar in function to a trench.

It's true that deep water would be useful to troops trying to avoid detection -sneaking along up to the neck in water, with the banks further obscuring them, but once detected they'd want to be out of that river. Certainly In modern combat, it's the last place a soldier would want to be if a firefight broke out.

I let the dogs out 
   
Made in ca
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





Nova Scotia

 thegreatchimp wrote:
From a purely common sense perspective, being submerged up to the waist in a body of water, milk or other fluid should provide a defensive penalty if anything, not a bonus. Whatever physical protection the water would provide is outweighed by the soldier movement being slowed, and therefore being a much easier target to hit.

The only exception I can think is if it was only a knee height body of water or less, with a high enough bank to take cover behind, beeing similar in function to a trench.

It's true that deep water would be useful to troops trying to avoid detection -sneaking along up to the neck in water, with the banks further obscuring them, but once detected they'd want to be out of that river. Certainly In modern combat, it's the last place a soldier would want to be if a firefight broke out.

...the whole time I was reading this, I was laughing at the fact that you mentioned milk as one of the fluids
   
Made in nz
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




Ankh Morpork

 anticitizen013 wrote:
...the whole time I was reading this, I was laughing at the fact that you mentioned milk as one of the fluids


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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/09 00:18:11


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a 5+ cover save for models actually in the river (or other shallow body of water). Water really does stop bullets pretty effectively, and it might be safe to assume it also protects from energy weapons as well (well, some energy weapons, but for rules purposes...). Of course, it's silly to say that models behind the river would have cover, unless there was some kind of raised obstruction on the bank or something.

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Made in ie
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Dublin

 anticitizen013 wrote:

...the whole time I was reading this, I was laughing at the fact that you mentioned milk as one of the fluids
The bloodletters and berserkers need great volumes of milk to pour on their Khorne Flakes.

I let the dogs out 
   
 
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