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I started a thread where I asked people to make suggestions about what they thought Ork units would look like if they got the same treatment that Eldar, Necrons and SM codices got, but instead of getting that people tended to comment on how they didn't want the power creep to continue, and they didn't want orks to be OP....kind of missing the point I was trying to make. So anyway now I will put forward a list of what I think Ork Units would look like if treated the same way as those codices listed above.

Warboss gains an additional Toughness, wound and Weapon skill and has the option to take a 4++ for 10-15pts.
Weirdboy: is automatically Lvl2 and pays the 25pt upgrade to be lvl3. His leadership is increased to 9 to make more sense with the ridiculous Perils table.
Painboy, -15pts, and can be fielded as a group of IC of up to 3 that counts as a single HQ choice.
Big Mek, SAG and KFF have a 50% reduction in price. Meks in MA can have a SAG.
Boyz 1point cheaper. No cost to upgrade Gunz and Nob upgrade only costs 5points not 10 and he can take a powerklaw for 15pts.
Gretchin: gain access to weapons that make them worth anything. IE they can take weapon platforms of some sort or they all have access to rng 36-48 weapons.
Nobz: SIGNIFICANT PRICE DROP, im talking about 1/3rd price reduction, power klaws only costing 15 and EA only costing 2pts.
Burna Boyz: Burna's ALWAYS count as AP3 weapons, can upgrade to Skorcha boyz for 2pts a model.
Tank Bustas: Rokkitz become Rng 36 and Assault 2.
Meganobz: Meganobz come standard with a 4++ and +1 toughness. Gain access to ranged weapons worth anything.
Dakka Jet, Burna Bomba, Blitza Bomba: Gain AV11, built in gitfindas raising BS to 3 and BS4 when strafing. Supashootas Gain +1S and +2 Shots per gun. Blitza bomb gains +1 strength and Burna Bomba has all its weapons gain +1S
Warbikers: +1S, SKilled Riders, Allowed to Turbo boost AND assault during a Waaagh
Nob Bikers: reduced in price by 10pts a model
Deff Koptas: +1S, option to take a Nob and gain +1 shots with Rokkitz TL
Lootas: D3+3 Shots per turn, or D3+1 shots per turn but +1S
Mek Gunz: Massive boost to all weapons, atm Kannonz, lobbas, KMKs are the only useful ground weapons while the traktor kannon is good in general for Anti Air.
ALL ORK WALKERS: gain a 4++ save OR become MC's with a good armor save.
Stompa: Drops about 200pts.
Ghazkull: becomes a MC, Gains 1-2 Toughness, Swings his PK at initiative, gains a permanent 4++ and +2 attacks.

So you didn't address Mob Rule, which is by far the worst offender in the book?

Also think that several of these need nerfing but I hadven't the time to say what I think they should be changed too.

they don't need nerfing because that isn't what this about ,ghazkuul is making a case of WHAT IF. BTW I did see your other thread and how people missed the point. I think most of these are still tame if we got a new codex tomorrow.

-Ork Waagh Weirdboy Konklave - group of 5 plus psykers- gain extra power if they all choose the ORK psychic powers -

not to mention there is no rerollables yet. the decurions have allowed some sort of rerollable jink or something.

I'm thinking some unending tide rules which is a buffed greentide--(Which btw I have had wiped on more than one occasion) for every 10 orks killed per turn roll a D6 and that many orks rejoin the tide.

You have buffed up the units so far but haven't added formation / detachment rules yet either. those usually provide a huge bonus.

tank bustas could be range 36 to match missile launchers but they also don't aim. possibly more of a barrage style tank busta formation similar to the demolisher ravenwing one.

I'm less familiar with orks than I am with most armies, but I do face them a fair bit. Some of these proposals seem reasonable, others seem fine but strange, and others seem like they're probably too good. I'll address the last two types. You can assume anything I don't mention seems either totally fine or even super-cool in my book.

Gretchin: Aren't gretchin with long-ranged guns just called "artillery"?

Burna Boyz: These guys already consistently do some pretty serious damage to me. Do they really need to be improved? They're generally taken in squads of 5 or 10, right? So you'd only be paying 20 points to make the squad capable of harming a wider variety of targets, wounding many MCs on 5s, roasting everything T3 on a 2+, and ignoring the armor (and cover) of anything not in power armor or better. It's not that people couldn't deal with it (they already cripple most things they attack, and they'd still die just as easily as now), but is it really necessary for them? Maybe this would work better as part of a formation that has you take a trio of burna boyz or something so that if you jut really love flamers, you can be rewarded for your specialization. Or am I overestimating how effective they are currently?

Tank Bustas: This is another unit that seems like it's already pretty solid as it is. What's the issue you've encountered with them that makes you want to power them up? Also, wouldn't a range boost and a consistent number of shots equal to the average number of shots from a loota make them start to compete heavily with lootas? You'd give up a little bit of range and the possibility of more shots for a more consistent damage output, higher strength, and melee anti-tank.

Meganobz are only Toughness 4 by default, right? T5 seems like it's probably fine, though anything strength 3 is only going to be wounding you on 6s in challenges, which seems a bit much. T6 would probably be a bit overkill. Marines wounding on 5s seems reasonably fluffy, but 6s is rather nasty. Plus, you'll push people even further towards spamming lots of big guns rather than being willing to take you on in assault, which is probably less fun for everyone involved. Assuming they're T5 base with your changes, you'll potentially be able to make biker nobz tougher than Nurgle bikers with a pain boy. That's another thing that can be dealt with, but I'm not sure how much fun that is to face. Nurgle bikers are tough, but at least they aren't also packing a power claw each. It would put the unit in thunderwolf cavalry territory, only worse in some ways. You wouldn't have invul saves, but a jink save and FNP is probably better in most situations anyway. I know *I* probably wouldn't enjoy playing against it much, but I'm not fond of death star units in general.

War bikers: "Skilled rider" seems a bit strange for an ork. "Skilled" isn't really the word that comes to mind when I think of an ork doing reckless stunts on a bike, but I guess you could probably fluff it as ork luck/craziness keeping him safe or something. Let me put this to you: if an ork on a bike has skilled rider, what bike unit in the game *shouldn't* have skilled rider? Maybe make skilled rider a bonus for a kult of speed formation/detachment? That way, if you're heavily-invested in bikers, you don't have to worry about losing a big chunk of guys to terrain accidents, and it helps to distinguish the "dedicated" bikers from average joe orks, thus preventing all orks on bikes from having a level of dexterity that even an eldar windrider can't match.

Charging after turbo-boosting is a cool idea, but it seems a bit much. You're basically saying bikers can assault anywhere on the table turn 2 provided they don't flub their charge roll. Maybe give them fleet on turns you waaagh so that their average charge is better instead? And again, this feels like something that would fit better as a deatchment/formation rule than as a default rule. Would nob bikers also get these benefits?

Also, why +1 strength? Is it to help with HoWrath attacks? If so, I'd probably rather just see them get a rule for +1 HoWrath attacks.

Koptas: See above about the bonus to strength. The extra rokkit shot thing would be fine if priced appropriately, but it shouldn't be a cheap thing. Koptas are already one of the better ork units out there (you can make an odd little death star with them), and their shooting is nothing to sneeze at. They're even one of the scarier units in the game to be overwatched by with their TL high-quality guns. Do you really feel they need a boost? The ork players around here seem to run these guys with no complaints.

Lootas: No thanks. ^_^; I realize that lootaz are inconsistent, but they're pretty fantastic for their points. If you roll hot on your number of shots and/or to-hit rolls, you can put out a terrifying about of dakka. D3+3 shots would more than double their average damage output, and they're already making most things in the game sweat as is. +1 strength would be more reasonable, but then you might be stepping on tankbusta toes. I don't know. Maybe I'm biased by my non-orky viewpoint. Are there any ork players out there who *don't* consider lootas to be a pretty fantastic choice already? If you really want to boost them, how about a wargear option called, "Looted Gubbinz," or something that lets you choose or roll for some minor buff before the game starts. Like rerolling 1s to hit, boosting the AP by 1, or adding 1 to their number of shots once per game?

Walkers: Why would they have an invulnerable save that a dreadknight has to use psychic energy to emulate, a dreadnaught can't get (outside of SW), and a wraithknight's shield can't emulate? Letting them buy a personal-use KFF as an upgrade would be cool, but an automatic 4++ would have to increase their costs by a fair bit. Especially on a walker that's already pretty beefy like an 'orkanaught.

Even then, I'm not sure I'd really want it on killakans. Isn't the whole point of kans that they're the cheapest melee walkers in the game? Maybe just let a big mek equipped with a KFF hook up with them in his own custom kan suit? Or is that already a thing?

Other than that, I'd at least be willing to try out the changes you've proposed.

Well the forge world meka dreads can but KFFs and no the orkanauts are not that beefy. I generally have them take one melt pen and I'm sitting there shooting my bs5 guns because I "got lucky and was only immobilized" They are both over priced. They should be around for 135 to 150 if you want to compare it to the wraithknight without making them SH. It's about 295 now I think and the more an author is 310 kitted out And can still get 1 shot.

I also vouch for some kind of loota buff. I tend to always roll a 1 or 2 for their shots. They could benefit from a +1 to their shots.

The tank Busta formation should be a must especially since every representation of them has some sort of barrage rokkit attack in GW games

Again this is not a post to discuss the positives and negatives. It is simply what can GW do to them decurion wise or through op units similar to how Eldar marines and crons do.

And yet again, almost everyone misses the point. This thread isn't about making Orks balanced this is how they might look if they got the Eldar/NEcron Decurion love that the last few codices have gotten. I am trying to balance orks about as much as GW is trying to balance the game.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
And yet again, almost everyone misses the point. This thread isn't about making Orks balanced this is how they might look if they got the Eldar/NEcron Decurion love that the last few codices have gotten. I am trying to balance orks about as much as GW is trying to balance the game.

Someone is a very sad pony/panda/whatever you are.


I actually like most of these changes though.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
And yet again, almost everyone misses the point. This thread isn't about making Orks balanced this is how they might look if they got the Eldar/NEcron Decurion love that the last few codices have gotten. I am trying to balance orks about as much as GW is trying to balance the game.

I'm afraid I'm a bit confused then, Ghaz. Are you:

A.) Trying to suggest changes that would realistically see the light of day and be fun to play with/against? If that's the case, we've responded accordingly.

B.) Trying to suggest abilities that should be tied to actual decurion-style formations and detachments. If that's the case, All these rules changes should really be arranged according to what sort of formations they'd be a part of.

C.) You're frustrated that orks were part of the 7.0 (rather than 7.5) series of books, and want to throw out OP suggestions (as opposed to option A's reasonable suggestions) as a form of satire aimed at GW or as a form of griping. In which case the rules would likely not be very fun to use or face off against, and I may as well suggest that all shootas and sluggas be strength d, and that ork armor provide a 2+ rerollable invul save.

Wyldhunt wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
And yet again, almost everyone misses the point. This thread isn't about making Orks balanced this is how they might look if they got the Eldar/NEcron Decurion love that the last few codices have gotten. I am trying to balance orks about as much as GW is trying to balance the game.

I'm afraid I'm a bit confused then, Ghaz. Are you:

A.) Trying to suggest changes that would realistically see the light of day and be fun to play with/against? If that's the case, we've responded accordingly.

B.) Trying to suggest abilities that should be tied to actual decurion-style formations and detachments. If that's the case, All these rules changes should really be arranged according to what sort of formations they'd be a part of.

C.) You're frustrated that orks were part of the 7.0 (rather than 7.5) series of books, and want to throw out OP suggestions (as opposed to option A's reasonable suggestions) as a form of satire aimed at GW or as a form of griping. In which case the rules would likely not be very fun to use or face off against, and I may as well suggest that all shootas and sluggas be strength d, and that ork armor provide a 2+ rerollable invul save.

or option D: read my original post, utilizing common sense and realize I was just trying to see what Ork units might look like if they received the same treatment. Don't read into it at all just post funny buffs that would put it in line with things like Fire Dragons getting AP0 or Necrons getting 4+ RP .

If we're going for funny, maybe give battlwagons an extra hull point for each additional vehicle chassis you manage to add onto its custom-converted hull or bring back the old rule about being able to transport as many ork boyz as you can physically fit into the back of a vehicle?

A maxed out squad of burna boyz can fire a strength d torrent? Shootas are now assault 5 'cause you found more dakka?