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The terminators that hate chaos...

Which terminator would you rather field? The psychic charged force weapon grey knights that deep strike turn one or the hatred, split fire, bs2 over watching, twin link deep striking, power fist deathwing?

Owning both, neither are top tier, but right now, IMO, Deathwing are far superior

Deathwing. They got some sexy rules and wargear.

Grey Knights for me, more than just from gaming perspective the fluff and cinematic feel go so well with them.

My mate and I play these guys vs each other often and imho they are pretty evenly matched depending on the gear the GKs get, force weapons ruin my termies more often than id like especially the stupid fishing spear halberds, although the 5 powerfists/chainfists are nice when you ploop down near some rhinos or walkers.

GKs, they are troops and they are better looking IMO.

If you're talking about the odd squad in a list, then they're both as good/bad as each other. You should also group Space Wolf terminators with those two.

If you're talking about a list built around them, then it's a different matter. I was a pure Deathwing player in 5th. Now play Grey Knight Terminators. Why ?

Deathwing terminators are too expensive - 7pts more per model than GKT.
GKT have more tools to deal with 'stuff' than DW.
GKT are a troops choice and allow you to take a Terminator list either in a CAD or Nemesis Strike Force without going unbound
GKT have better support in the codex - Lvl3 Libs, Draigo, (Gate, Sanctuary); Dreadknights

Bartali wrote:
If you're talking about the odd squad in a list, then they're both as good/bad as each other. You should also group Space Wolf terminators with those two.

If you're talking about a list built around them, then it's a different matter. I was a pure Deathwing player in 5th. Now play Grey Knight Terminators. Why ?

Deathwing terminators are too expensive - 7pts more per model than GKT.
GKT have more tools to deal with 'stuff' than DW.
GKT are a troops choice and allow you to take a Terminator list either in a CAD or Nemesis Strike Force without going unbound
GKT have better support in the codex - Lvl3 Libs, Draigo, (Gate, Sanctuary); Dreadknights

I agree with most of this as a DA player myself. The biggest thing is that we can't do all terminator CAD anymore. And since we can't have our terminator formations DS on turn 1 anymore, we can't really take a "pure death wing" list.

The only thing I don't entirely agree with is the better support part. The whole of the Ravenwing is built to synergize with deathwing. You could argue it either way, but I have found reliable success having multiple small units of bikes to bring down my terminators without scattering and then using them to tie up the nearby unit (s) for the next turn terminator assault. This is before even getting into how powerful ravenwing list can be built, but then the terninators are supporting them, instead of the other way around.

In a vacuum, GK terminators vs DA terminators would be close. It would come down to mostly luck on the table where a bad charge/to hit/save roll would be the real determining factor.

I think the Deathwing/Ravenwing mechanic is something that GW have been wanting people to use since at least the 4th ed codex, but it's never quite worked. It ends up being expensive, and wastes the RW as a delivery mechanism for the DW

I've not played DW since mid 6th, so this may have changed of course....

This topic is awesome as I own a huge grey knight termie army for my son, and am currently in the process of building deathwing for myself!

It is a tough one. Both are pretty evenly matched. Also depends on the opponent. If facing Daemons then Grey Knights, but if facing Chaos Space Marines then I would take Deathwing. Of course, if you combine the two into one force to take on both CSM's and Daemons (aka, the Pandorax campaign), then that is one fun army to play.

Someone mentioned better support units. Draigo is still really awesome and the GK librarians are really good, but the Deathwing now have really powerful librarians in terminator armour with their new Interromancy power which is very, very good at messing up enemy HQ units.

In any case, I love both types of terminator so cannot choose. Both are definitely a lot cooler than the terminators from other chapters.

Grey knight terminators can benefit from ravenwing tactics in the way deathwing termies can right? Might be an interesting alliance!

 Smotejob wrote:
Grey knight terminators can benefit from ravenwing tactics in the way deathwing termies can right? Might be an interesting alliance!

Definitely, teleport homers galore on the Ravenwing bikes will ensure no scatter for deepstriking GK terminators and Dreadknights

Ooh, I might just have to give that a go in one of my future games

Don't forget - an allied Inquisitor with Servo Skulls is still a thing if you're after no scatter deep strikes, especially if you're doing it turn 1 with the Nemesis Strike Force

I am painting some marines as exorcists and think iy would be fun to run a deathwing/ravenwing type army, where the marines play as ravenwing and the grey knights piggy back off of them. The bikes would fill the low ap shooting gk lack. Low model count is still a thing but should be fun!

I'd definitely give the edge to Grey Knight Terminators. GW still doesn't realize Deathwing ain't worth 40 a pop.

What are the best things DW have going for them ?

I wish Deathwing, but as it is, they're way overpriced compared to GK.

Grey Knights easily. More warp energy and Force weapons are great! Some of the toughest things in the game are Monstrous Creatures and most of them aren't Eternal Warrior.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
What are the best things DW have going for them ?

The short story from the old Deathwing Space Hulk expansion. Love that story.

Bartali wrote:
Don't forget - an allied Inquisitor with Servo Skulls is still a thing if you're after no scatter deep strikes, especially if you're doing it turn 1 with the Nemesis Strike Force

Servo skulls are good, but you still technically scatter when deep striking close to them. You simply scatter 1d6 less. One downside to them though is that you hope to get the first turn before your enemies move within 6 inches of a skull and remove it from play.

I'm going to chime in with another view point. I have an all termi force that I play for fluff reasons. I personally run Space Wolves. You can get run non-CAD, non unbound easily and get some nice ,IMHO, formations.

Also they Hate the Thousand Sons.


SW termis get alot of wargear options. You can mix and match pretty much anything. PF/LC, LC/SS. Also frost weapons are awesome. 5 more point more than a regular power weapon gets you an additional +1 str.

You can take Land Raiders as DT or just deep strike.

To legally run this you need the Champions of Fenris book. Which gives you a Force Org of 1hq, 2 elites minimum. Pretty much you swap elite and troop slots. Also all "Grey hunters" which your termis are get +1 WS

Since its a suppliment you have to use that books Relics and traits which are pretty decent.

Formations for all termis are awesome.

I know its not exactly what you were asking about but its an alternative. My army is built on the Wolves dex but modeled all chaos as word bearers anointed.

 Smotejob wrote:
I am painting some marines as exorcists and think iy would be fun to run a deathwing/ravenwing type army, where the marines play as ravenwing and the grey knights piggy back off of them. The bikes would fill the low ap shooting gk lack. Low model count is still a thing but should be fun!

Fluffy, and the Locator Beacons on the Bikes help bring the GK right where you want them!

SJ

If GK termies had storm shields they would win, hands down. But since an equivalent CC loadout (hammers) costs the same but GK trades a 3++ for a storm bolter, I'd have to give the edge to Deathwing. Force and hammerhand are good but often unnecessary when you're already doing 3 S8 AP2 attacks/model on the charge, and if you're primarily shooting with your terminators you're doing it wrong.

It IS important to note that Deathwing would cost 250 in that loadout. So that IS more points to spend for the Grey Knights for a comparison.