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Makumba wrote:

How do the tau balance anything. Do they keep in check eldar or necron or grav marines, so other armies can get a better chance?

He's saying them getting nerfed is one less army up there with Eldar thus improving balance


If it even happens. Which remains to be seen

Dman, Tau are fine remember:

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

No, kidding aside, how can we possibly tell if Tau are top , mid or shelf tier without a full codex, full playtestng, tourney battles, allies-in, nerfs and new rules to be tested?

Hope....dangles on a string, like slow spinning perfection.....

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:
I'm disappointed in the look of the new stealth suit....thing.

All the new suits are looking the same now a days they should each visually differ I mean they could have given the new suit a stealth look just for aesthetics like hard corners like a stealth bomber I know it won't make sense in the world but it would give it a different look to yet another thrown together from spare tau parts battlesuit



Also when do we get:

That's already out. It's called Dropzone Commander.

Seriously now, is that scratch built or an actual mini? If so from where? First thing I saw that, I thought of Heavy Gear.

Looks like it was put together using bits from (at least) 2 piranha kits and a hammerhead/skyray kit, probably more.

It's a scratch built metal gear made from tau bits.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Makumba wrote:

How do the tau balance anything. Do they keep in check eldar or necron or grav marines, so other armies can get a better chance?

He's saying them getting nerfed is one less army up there with Eldar thus improving balance


If it even happens. Which remains to be seen

It doesn't improve anything, if the army to beat is eldar and necron. If a new army comes and can't do this. Then necron and eldar are still at the top, and at best you get less balance, because suddenly the weaker armies have a harder time. Balance can be achived in two ways. Either all armies are bad, but then the game wouldn't probably be fun. Or if all armies are OP. You can't have more balance by having one army dominate others, and maybe two keeping up with it, while others are downright worse.

Good.
That's one less army that's pounding 75% of the other armies into oblivion with repetitive cheesey units.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Good.
That's one less army that's pounding 75% of the other armies into oblivion with repetitive cheesey units.

Then bad news for you: the new Tau releases are disappointing because they are not cheesy enough to keep up with the 25%. They are still at least a league above the 75%, don't worry about that.

For example, a Stormsurge with the mega-shotgun and the Skyfire support system just annihilates Tyrannids of all shape and form. It hard-counters Flyrants so hard, it isn't even funny. Yet, in these forums, it is considered a "subpar" unit .

Not overpowered. They got a superheavy and an mc the latter of which being hard to target via shooting.
Not disappointed at all.

I'm pretty confidant that the Tau's Decurion set-up and their various formations will put them on an equal footing against the other 7.5 ed. codices... Combined alongside their basic advantages such as their Supporting Fire/Overwatch bonuses, Markerlights and various wargear, I'm willing to bet wearing a bloody Maple Leafs jersey that Tau will quickly be declared even more OP than Kraftworld Cheesedar within a few days of the codex release.

Wait. We are complaining that Tau suck even before the codex is released? Just look what happened last time. Codex was released, Tau was boring and sucked.

We all know how that turned out for a while, lots of crying and gnashing of teeth because of how Over Powered Tau were at the time.

Davor wrote:
Wait. We are complaining that Tau suck even before the codex is released? Just look what happened last time. Codex was released, Tau was boring and sucked.

We all know how that turned out for a while, lots of crying and gnashing of teeth because of how Over Powered Tau were at the time.

Well, isn't Dakka's no.1 hobby to constantly b**** & whine that the sky is always falling?!

Still, I'll give Dakka some incredibly slight credit... We're only saying that the new Tau are obviously going to suck. When Daemons were coming out, the amount of elitism and "proof" that they were 1000% unplayable and would auto-lose every single game was something to truly behold...
Followed up of course by those same vocal geniuses crawling back barely a couple weeks later and bemoaning how Daemons had just broken 40k with their OP cheese.

Dman137 wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
@dman please stfu your giving us csm players a bad name please I'd quite happily take my csm vs you and I'd probably slaughter you lol. From the impression I g you don't understand tactics and rely on raw power to win

Hahahah you give yourself a bad name. As for you beating me, yeah man your the best #1 haha I only play against real generals and by the sound of it you sound like your a 13 year old kid who just got his first army. Play a few games get some experience and then you can play me.

If there's anyone who seems like they're coming into the wrong side of puberty, it's you Dman137.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Davor wrote:
Wait. We are complaining that Tau suck even before the codex is released? Just look what happened last time. Codex was released, Tau was boring and sucked.

We all know how that turned out for a while, lots of crying and gnashing of teeth because of how Over Powered Tau were at the time.

Well, isn't Dakka's no.1 hobby to constantly b**** & whine that the sky is always falling?!

Still, I'll give Dakka some incredibly slight credit... We're only saying that the new Tau are obviously going to suck. When Daemons were coming out, the amount of elitism and "proof" that they were 1000% unplayable and would auto-lose every single game was something to truly behold...
Followed up of course by those same vocal geniuses crawling back barely a couple weeks later and bemoaning how Daemons had just broken 40k with their OP cheese.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where everything is terrible until proven OP.

At least there are some voices of reason around here willing to point out that we barely know anything about the new Tau. For all we know at this point, they could end up being more powerful than Craftworld Eldar (shudders).

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Davor wrote:
Wait. We are complaining that Tau suck even before the codex is released? Just look what happened last time. Codex was released, Tau was boring and sucked.

We all know how that turned out for a while, lots of crying and gnashing of teeth because of how Over Powered Tau were at the time.

Well, isn't Dakka's no.1 hobby to constantly b**** & whine that the sky is always falling?!

Still, I'll give Dakka some incredibly slight credit... We're only saying that the new Tau are obviously going to suck. When Daemons were coming out, the amount of elitism and "proof" that they were 1000% unplayable and would auto-lose every single game was something to truly behold...
Followed up of course by those same vocal geniuses crawling back barely a couple weeks later and bemoaning how Daemons had just broken 40k with their OP cheese.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where everything is terrible until proven OP.

At least there are some voices of reason around here willing to point out that we barely know anything about the new Tau. For all we know at this point, they could end up being more powerful than Craftworld Eldar (shudders).

Personally, I'm expecting that once the dust settles and the non-knee jerking Tau players spend some time with the new codex, that their Decurion/Gladius style detachment will at least put them on a fairly even footing against the new Vanilla/DA/Necron codices.

Who knows, they might even get a formation or two for the likes of Pathfinders and/or a Firebase Cadre that makes Scatbike spam & Ravenwing shenanigans cry!

In all fairness, when Tau came out the knee jerk reactions was that the ability to deal with heavy armored vehicles would be really nerfed and that it would boil down to a few major builds.
For example, Broadsides and Riptides both have 2 weapon options with one being obviously superior.
Targeting arrays were gone and cover removal was easier so marker light spam would be a thing.

For the most part the knee-jerk reaction was right. Though a lot of Tau's power came from allies and the supplement later anyways.

The Tidewall and Ghostkeel are going to make tears. You know. i think I got a position I want to sit a Stormsurge in. Or better yet a Ta'unar.

Muahah! The rules are out and holy feth is it amazing.

I knew you couldn't give us complete crap GW, you just has to throw out one really powerful unit or fortification in this case. I'm so... SOO... glad I preordered mine. Pathfinders just got 10x more useful with this wall.

Is it just me, or is whenever a new codex is released, the expectations are opposite to the result?

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Is it just me, or is whenever a new codex is released, the expectations are opposite to the result?

I dunno. Everyone expected that the latest Eldar codex would be broken as all get out, and what do you know they were right!

 Gamgee wrote:
The Tidewall and Ghostkeel are going to make tears.

As a Tau player it actually makes me upset how good that wall is.
It's a fortification that moves, redirects shots in the worst way, and lets units shot as if they haven't moved.
For mobile Tau fortifications, I just wanted wall emplacements that you deepstrike after turn 1.

I fully support the new Tearwall. I might buy a Stormsurge now because of it. It all depends on if it gets save. I got my Tearwall in the first few seconds of it being online. Muhahaha.

Makumba wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Makumba wrote:

How do the tau balance anything. Do they keep in check eldar or necron or grav marines, so other armies can get a better chance?

He's saying them getting nerfed is one less army up there with Eldar thus improving balance


If it even happens. Which remains to be seen

It doesn't improve anything, if the army to beat is eldar and necron. If a new army comes and can't do this. Then necron and eldar are still at the top, and at best you get less balance, because suddenly the weaker armies have a harder time. Balance can be achived in two ways. Either all armies are bad, but then the game wouldn't probably be fun. Or if all armies are OP. You can't have more balance by having one army dominate others, and maybe two keeping up with it, while others are downright worse.

The fact is there isn't perfect balance, but we can be happy when we get closer. Endarterectomy is ridiculously OP, having a couple. Armies that compete with them doesn't improve balance, having them on the majority of the rest of the games level and drawing back towards it like I hope the new Tau release has done, does much more to improve balance.

You don't normalise the entire rest of the game in the direction of the outlier. You tweak the outliers back in line with the majority. Elder need nerds, is simple as that. If they don't get nerds, making a couple of other armies just as OP to compete with them just throws out balance even further.

 SHUPPET wrote:

You don't normalise the entire rest of the game in the direction of the outlier. You tweak the outliers back in line with the majority. Elder need nerds, is simple as that. If they don't get nerds, making a couple of other armies just as OP to compete with them just throws out balance even further.

I dont know about needing Nerds. They already have their fair share of fanboys/fangirls, probably even a few geeks, and even a few wierdos who go all in for the pointy ear thing. But Nerds. Surely not.

I'm pretty sure you meant to say nerfs. But its late, and I'm tired, and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Eldar do need more Nerds.

The new Tidewall seems ok, but really easy to mitigate movement through deploying terrain.

Relentless for models on it is good though.

 Jayden63 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

You don't normalise the entire rest of the game in the direction of the outlier. You tweak the outliers back in line with the majority. Elder need nerds, is simple as that. If they don't get nerds, making a couple of other armies just as OP to compete with them just throws out balance even further.

I dont know about needing Nerds. They already have their fair share of fanboys/fangirls, probably even a few geeks, and even a few wierdos who go all in for the pointy ear thing. But Nerds. Surely not.

I'm pretty sure you meant to say nerfs. But its late, and I'm tired, and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Eldar do need more Nerds.

Whoops, this stupid iPad doesn't realise "nerf" is a word haha


But yeah eldar needs nerds and Some geeks too.

You don't normalise the entire rest of the game in the direction of the outlier. You tweak the outliers back in line with the majority. Elder need nerds, is simple as that. If they don't get nerds, making a couple of other armies just as OP to compete with them just throws out balance even further.

When was it the last time GW made eldar bad, when they got a new codex ? Oh yes, never. So the only way to get any form of balance is not to hope that one day GW will nerf eldar and that is good that other armies are weaker, but to give all other armies good enough rules to play vs eldar, and other armies. I don't see the logic of weaker armies bringing more balance to the game, when we know that when the time comes for eldar to get a new book it will be powerful again.

Makumba wrote:

You don't normalise the entire rest of the game in the direction of the outlier. You tweak the outliers back in line with the majority. Elder need nerds, is simple as that. If they don't get nerds, making a couple of other armies just as OP to compete with them just throws out balance even further.

When was it the last time GW made eldar bad, when they got a new codex ? Oh yes, never. So the only way to get any form of balance is not to hope that one day GW will nerf eldar and that is good that other armies are weaker, but to give all other armies good enough rules to play vs eldar, and other armies. I don't see the logic of weaker armies bringing more balance to the game, when we know that when the time comes for eldar to get a new book it will be powerful again.

Their 4th edition codex literally shoehorned them into abusing one specific build due to how bland & otherwise mediocre everything else was... But then that's what happens when Jervis decides to do a 180 within a week of the final codex draft being completed, and wants to instead simplify the crap out of everything.
So we got bland'tastic & overly simplified codices for Eldar, Dark Angels & Chaos Marines, then a shift towards 'more options but still relatively simplified' with Orks & Daemons, before the flood gates opened and Marines - Guard - SW's - BA's - DE - GK's - Newcrons.

And yes, you never go ahead and ramp everything up to the nines with super power creep! That's exactly how GW successfully destroyed 7th edition Fantasy, which became the single worst edition that game had ever seen!

I don't think the Mr. Missile Arm suit is over priced, it's just compared to the eldar version he looks over costed. I find it to be a remarkably balanced model.

The wall is the first decent new thing for Tau.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The wall is the first decent new thing for Tau.

"Broken" != "Decent".

First Codex leaks are out. We're nerfed. :(

Our formations will have to be stupid broken to make us competitive.