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So apparently I am awful at math and overcosted my lord by 100 points, so I redid my list for 1000, 1500, 2000 points.

1000 points

Lord
Daemon Heart
Slaughterer's Horns
Prophet of the voices
Blade of the Relentless
GoM
180p

Troops
Possessed
8
MoK
Banner of Wrath
Rhino (DT)
-Dirge Casters
287

Cultists
35
24 Autoguns
174p

Elites
Chosen
5x Plasmaguns
Draznicht's Ravagers
Rhino (DT)
Combi Plasma
175p

Heavy Support
Vindicator
Siege Shield
Warpflame Gargoyles
135p


(1500 points)
Additions

Fast Attack
Raptors
2x Meltaguns
Melta Bombs
120p

Heavy Support
Predator
TL Lascannon
Sponson Lascannons
140p

Predator
TL Lascannon
Sponson Lascannons
140p

Fortifications
Void Shield Generator
2 additional Void Shields
100p

(1850 points)

HQ
Belakor
350


(2000 points)
Additions

Troops
Cultists
15
Flamer
75p

Fast Attack
Spawn
MoN
36

Spawn
MoN
36

1997 Total

god... fine just say the word..."Semi - competitive"

I am over it.

Btw good luck.

Why not play KDK msu?

 Filch wrote:
god... fine just say the word..."Semi - competitive"

I am over it.

Btw good luck.

Why not play KDK msu?

Whats wrong with semi competitive?

I dont feel like buying the book or buying daemons and I like possessed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright, I think this is more competitive than I would admit

If you like possessed- Daemonkin Possessed are WAY better as they get MoK and DoK. You don't need Daemons to run a Daemonkin Army, just works better using both.
It's worth checking out... While KDK isn't the most competitive book out there, it is miles ahead of the CSM codex. There is no such thing as a competetive CSM army ...

Yeah that looks pretty boss, Not the biggest fan of fortifications or the Vindi, but that's my own personal taste.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Yeah that looks pretty boss, Not the biggest fan of fortifications or the Vindi, but that's my own personal taste.

I had a vindicator and I didnt want to buy another Predator

I know that feeling, it's just so short ranged, I find it always gets popped before it fires or people stay out of its range.

What do you think the cultists are for?

Are you really looking for a competitive list here? I'm super not trying to be a jerk but you don't seem to have the models that would let you make a "strong" CSM list. To be honest I have to agree with the above statement too that there is no such thing as competitive CSM. In order to be competitive you might want to look at the new imperial armor for chaos renegades. Allying with them may be your best option. Or use Khorne deamonkin with some belakor ally for invisibility. Those would be my suggestions.

Epartalis wrote:
Are you really looking for a competitive list here? I'm super not trying to be a jerk but you don't seem to have the models that would let you make a "strong" CSM list. To be honest I have to agree with the above statement too that there is no such thing as competitive CSM. In order to be competitive you might want to look at the new imperial armor for chaos renegades. Allying with them may be your best option. Or use Khorne deamonkin with some belakor ally for invisibility. Those would be my suggestions.

Pause and ask yourself, "Is this a CSM list?"

If I wanted to run Khorne daemonkin, I would have. The easy, "Play KDK" doesnt help in anyway shape or form. I want to run a word bearer esque CSM force with some form of competitiveness.

And to run Belakor, I would have to include him at the 2000 point limit, so he isnt really a viable option

Huh? I field Belakor in 1500 and 1850 pt lists.
Not saying you have to field Belakor- but this doesn't even look like a semi-competetive attempt at a list. You've got way too many crap units with crap upgrades. Points wasted all over on pointless upgrades to "ok" units. None of CSM's best units are in the list. Neither of your HQ's have any type of invuln saves... You've given your Lord a combat familiar, plasma pistol,gift of mutation, ichor blood- plus a whole slew of artifacts.... But no Sigil or at least an Aura?????? EDIT- you've got 5++ from Prophet of Voices on Lord.. Drop that plasma pistol for an Aura on the Sorcerer.

If you're looking for advice on tweaking a fun list to be a little stronger you can just say that... If you're looking for a
Competetive, or even semi-competetive list- this list is far from it.

I didn't say just Khorne deamonkin. I specifically said renegades from the new imperial armor since you clearly stated you don't want to run them.

Look man you posted these lists with the title competitive. But your lists aren't so I'm just trying to help. If you don't believe me or don't want to listen that's ok but I think you should listen to what I and others have to say.

You need to completely restart. Competitive CSM, or at least semi competitive, should include the following. Spawn, bikers, helldrakes(with the rise of msu marines these are finding success for me again), maulerfiends, cultists, and sorcerers. If you want pure CSM that's what you need to look at. A close combat army with invisibility and other buffs with a little shooting mixed in. That's my opinion but it has some 3 years of play testing to back it up. Like I said if you don't believe me buy and paint all those models and let me know how you like your army.

Epartalis wrote:
I didn't say just Khorne deamonkin. I specifically said renegades from the new imperial armor since you clearly stated you don't want to run them.

Look man you posted these lists with the title competitive. But your lists aren't so I'm just trying to help. If you don't believe me or don't want to listen that's ok but I think you should listen to what I and others have to say.

You need to completely restart. Competitive CSM, or at least semi competitive, should include the following. Spawn, bikers, helldrakes(with the rise of msu marines these are finding success for me again), maulerfiends, cultists, and sorcerers. If you want pure CSM that's what you need to look at. A close combat army with invisibility and other buffs with a little shooting mixed in. That's my opinion but it has some 3 years of play testing to back it up. Like I said if you don't believe me buy and paint all those models and let me know how you like your army.

Let me explain why this cant work and this should have been stated at the beginning.

The mainstream armies at my FLGS is Tau and Necrons (necrons less so). The Tau like to spam devil fish (at least 3/4) and piranhas. If my guys are not in a vehicle or in that void shield, they will fall. MoK doesnt change much when 40 some shots are going into a 3 model unit. The only thing the Tau cant kill is... Tanks. The guy I usually play struggled to kill 3 dreadnaughts with half his army but he shot off 80% of my troops in a single phase. When everything is a vehicle or in one, they wont be shot off turn one

EDIT- I completely forgot about belakor

If you really want to win then you ally a Eldar formation detachment that lets you take 12 Wraith Knights.

 Filch wrote:
If you really want to win then you ally a Eldar formation detachment that lets you take 12 Wraith Knights.

What kind of Eldar shenanigans is that?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Filch wrote:
If you really want to win then you ally a Eldar formation detachment that lets you take 12 Wraith Knights.

What kind of Eldar shenanigans is that?

Dude, it's their default Craftworlds War Host detachment. Take a single Windrider Host as a tax then you are permitted 12 Auxiliary choices. Of which one is called the Wraith Construct and can be one of a few monstrous creatures. One of which is a Wraithknight.

5 Wraithknights and 1 Windrider Host is a Battle-forged 1850 list. Leave it to Eldar to discover the 4th wall and use Destroyer weapons on the rulebook.

 Arkaine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Filch wrote:
If you really want to win then you ally a Eldar formation detachment that lets you take 12 Wraith Knights.

What kind of Eldar shenanigans is that?

Dude, it's their default Craftworlds War Host detachment. Take a single Windrider Host as a tax then you are permitted 12 Auxiliary choices. Of which one is called the Wraith Construct and can be one of a few monstrous creatures. One of which is a Wraithknight.

5 Wraithknights and 1 Windrider Host is a Battle-forged 1850 list. Leave it to Eldar to discover the 4th wall and use Destroyer weapons on the rulebook.

Feel free to notice I am playing CSM not Eldar

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Filch wrote:
If you really want to win then you ally a Eldar formation detachment that lets you take 12 Wraith Knights.

What kind of Eldar shenanigans is that?

Dude, it's their default Craftworlds War Host detachment. Take a single Windrider Host as a tax then you are permitted 12 Auxiliary choices. Of which one is called the Wraith Construct and can be one of a few monstrous creatures. One of which is a Wraithknight.

5 Wraithknights and 1 Windrider Host is a Battle-forged 1850 list. Leave it to Eldar to discover the 4th wall and use Destroyer weapons on the rulebook.

Feel free to notice I am playing CSM not Eldar

My bad, I thought this for a competitive list. Competitive players tend to know the codex of their enemies. It's a Sun Tzu principle.

 Arkaine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Filch wrote:
If you really want to win then you ally a Eldar formation detachment that lets you take 12 Wraith Knights.

What kind of Eldar shenanigans is that?

Dude, it's their default Craftworlds War Host detachment. Take a single Windrider Host as a tax then you are permitted 12 Auxiliary choices. Of which one is called the Wraith Construct and can be one of a few monstrous creatures. One of which is a Wraithknight.

5 Wraithknights and 1 Windrider Host is a Battle-forged 1850 list. Leave it to Eldar to discover the 4th wall and use Destroyer weapons on the rulebook.

Feel free to notice I am playing CSM not Eldar

My bad, I thought this for a competitive list. Competitive players tend to know the codex of their enemies. It's a Sun Tzu principle.

My enemies play Tau and Necrons.

Furthermore not everyone has 50+ bucks to shell on every dex' and all of them but Orks, CSM and Sisters get updated every other week with new BS.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Furthermore not everyone has 50+ bucks to shell on every dex' and all of them but Orks, CSM and Sisters get updated every other week with new BS.

Lol. Dont buy from GW if you dont have to. Plus, KDK was basically created to sell one model so...

Just saying it's idiotic to expect people to know or own every codex.

I own every codex bar Imp Knights and KDK and I know pretty much every army

i LOVE crimson slaughter because the lord is fun with the sword that powers up as he kills. in practice, he never seems as good as I wish.. even with the horns and the daemonhart I always end up underperforming.

that said, taking a sorceror who gets divination and rerolls is insane.

chaos knight of khorne from daemons.. grimoired. invisible if you want. divination for prescience. and adding 1 on the D-table against MC and GC? wraithknights don't stand a chance.

or a full rapier battery with prescience.. awesome. only crappy part is it's an artifact and we can only have one div sorceror. unless there's a way to take it from imperial guard renegade forgeworld books i havent yet seen.
or an allied lord of change. or maybe ahriman if he gets faq'ed?

point being, CSM can be competitive with new 7th list building. unfortuntaely your original list is really soft. possessed, raptors, predators etc. chosen, vindicators. none of it is cost efficient and it's not likely to win you much.

i do think that bezerkers could work if you want that world eaters theme but youd have to run like 60 of them. deploy as far forward as possible and just go nuts. half will die before they make it to combat. the other half might be able to make up for it. but you could do better with more cost effective options.

three squads of 5 spawn sounds fun too.

raoiley wrote:
i LOVE crimson slaughter because the lord is fun with the sword that powers up as he kills. in practice, he never seems as good as I wish.. even with the horns and the daemonhart I always end up underperforming.

that said, taking a sorceror who gets divination and rerolls is insane.

chaos knight of khorne from daemons.. grimoired. invisible if you want. divination for prescience. and adding 1 on the D-table against MC and GC? wraithknights don't stand a chance.

or a full rapier battery with prescience.. awesome. only crappy part is it's an artifact and we can only have one div sorceror. unless there's a way to take it from imperial guard renegade forgeworld books i havent yet seen.
or an allied lord of change. or maybe ahriman if he gets faq'ed?

point being, CSM can be competitive with new 7th list building. unfortuntaely your original list is really soft. possessed, raptors, predators etc. chosen, vindicators. none of it is cost efficient and it's not likely to win you much.

i do think that bezerkers could work if you want that world eaters theme but youd have to run like 60 of them. deploy as far forward as possible and just go nuts. half will die before they make it to combat. the other half might be able to make up for it. but you could do better with more cost effective options.

three squads of 5 spawn sounds fun too.

I like how you didnt read the comments.