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My wargaming group has expanded lately but the audience is alot more casual they love collecting models but i cant get many games in, they enjoy narrtive set ups and miniture games but still find alack of pick up and play issues with them.
Well i would like to create some loose rules to skirmish it up with 40k, so im going to doing a rules convertion that will include smaller (hopefully thinned and straightforward) rules for play, codex datacards for all the units and a new points system.
I with post up in this tread as it is completed for help and crit. Any ideas/crit of the bat please feel free!

EDIT: So far i have a completed first draft and a complete vanilla marines and a crons dex. There is a points system.

First draft of turn sequence: TURN PHASE:
Hero phase: Psychic Powers and leadership commands.
The Warlord may use its command power and any other powers, other units may use powers. Psychers may use psychic abilities, these maybe countered by enemy Psychers or other able units. A Psychers may use a number of abilities equal to its mastery stat.

Movement phase: May move units six inches or run them +D6 inches, unless otherwise stated.
Models in units must remain within 2 inches of each other once they have finished movement. Models may run adding D6 inches to its move. Models that run may not charge in the assault phase. Models that run may only fire non heavy weapons and may only fire snap shots in the shooting phase. Models may not move within 3 inches of enemy models.

Shooting phase: Units may shoot ranged weapons.
Each unit with ranged weapons may fire a weapon per model, unless a different number of weapons is stated in there profile. Each model may pick a different target for its shooting, for each unit choose all targets before rolling any dice.

Assault phase: Units within 12 inches of the enemy may charge.
Models that did not run may charge in the assault phase. Models charge 2D6 inches. Only units that are within 12 inches of enemy models may declare charges regardless of their max charge. Charging units may throw one of each grenade type they have at the target unit, each grenade must be thrown by a different model. Models with non-blast ranged weapons that are charged may fire overwatch, overwatch is fired before any models are moved.

Assault Sub Phase: Initiative and making attacks.
Once models have made there charge moves, pick a close combat, units in base to base contact are in close combat. Each player rolls a die for each unit they have in the close combat adding there models initiative to the roll along with any modifiers. Models that charged this turn gain +1 initiative. Units now attack in descending order, any units that drew when taking their initiative test attack at the same time. When it is a models turn to attack they may pile in towards the closes enemy model by the shortest route possible up to 3 inches, to try to get into base contact. Once piled in all models that are within 3 inches of an enemy model in base to base contact may attack. Models may attack with either any two weapons they carry that have the melee or pistol damage type or they may use the generic Melee attack listed at the bottom of their weapons as ‘Base Attack’. Models may not leave combat until it has been fully resolved, with one side having been killed off. Keep track of how much damage a unit has both taken and given out if the combat is not resolved as this is used in the battleshock phase.

Battleshock phase: Units that took casualties take a leadership tests.
Units that took casualties during the turn must take a leadership test. Add the losses of a unit to a D6 roll if it is higher than its highest leadership you lose that many additional wounds on that unit.
Units that are still in close combat that took more unsaved wounds than they gave out during the assault phase suffer a penalty to their leadership equal to the difference in the close combat damage.

EDIT:

Snippit of Special rules(section will be greatly reduced from BRB due to Data Cards containing compressed versions):

Special rules:
Snap Shots: These shots only hit on a 6, blast weapons and spray weapons may not snap shot. Snap shots never create additional hits.
Over Watch: Models firing Over Watch fire snap shots but with the following changes. Spray weapons auto hit with D3 hits. Vehicles may not fire overwatch.
Mortal wounds: Only invulnerable saves can be taken against these wounds.
Psychers: Psychers know any abilities on their Data Card, they also know the generic psychic abilities below. To cast a psychic power roll a die higher than its casting value. A Psychers may use a number of abilities equal to its mastery stat. Each ability may only be used once a turn. Each ability is active till your next hero phase unless otherwise stated. Psychers can also summon, the casting value and mastery cost of a summons is on the compatible units Data Card.
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• Force shield. CV-3: pick a friendly unit in line of sight and within 18 inches its gains a 5+ invulnerable save. This can be the caster.
• Incinerate. CV-4: pick an enemy unit in line of sight and within 24 inches its takes D3 mortal wounds.
• Prescience. CV-4: pick a friendly unit in line of sight and within 12 inches its gains a 1+ to initiative and to hit. This can be the caster.
• Psychic Shriek. CV-3: pick an enemy unit in line of sight and within 18 inches its takes -D3 to its leadership.
• Infinity Gate. CV-5: you may pick a friendly unit within 3 inches to join the psycher through the gate, redeploy the units anywhere at least 12 inches from enemy models, roll a D6 for each 10 accompanying models, on a 1 the unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. This counts as moving.
• Shock Wave. CV-3: any enemy unit within 1 inch suffers -1 to its initiative and to hit rolls.
• Empower. CV-4: the psycher gains +1 to hit and to wound on its close combat attacks, these attack deal mortal wounds.
• Doom Bolt. CV-5: the psycher must spend double the mastery to cast this ability, pick a point within 18 inches all units within 6 inches take D3 mortal

• ‘Summons’
Stabilizing: A Psycher must concentrate all their power to summon forth and stabilize a unit of warriors. When you successfully cast a summon the Psycher may not summon any other models until the current unit is destroyed, any summoned units are brought forth at the minimum squad size. If a Psycher breaks concentration to cast a different power the unit they were stabilizing is destroyed and removed from play.

wounds.
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Warlords: Any model in your army maybe your warlord, usually it is advantageous to pick a model with command abilities or a high leadership. If your model does not have a command ability you may use the generic one listed below instead of your army’s warlord traits table.
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• Inspiring presence: All units within 6 inches of the warlord may reroll leadership tests in the Battleshock phase.

Age of sigmar is widely criticised for its obscene lack of balance, rules, or cohesion. It's not pick up and play so much as "well, people had these models, and we can't completely invalidate everything, so here's this little gakky rough draft of some rules we did last week."

I understand your feelings but that doesnt help us move forward, please try and be constructive i would i appreciate it

Regardless of what you think of the game, the form is whats important, 3 page rules and character cards makes the game pick up n play, the codex n BRB format does not.

I will state now there is a pts system called threat lvl and first draft is roughly 3x the size of AOS rules.

also cohesion?

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
So AOS has opened this game up to a larger audience granted its killed WFB for some and for that im sad but role with the times n all.

This likely to be unpopular but has anyone had people they known either start or increase there war gaming due to AOS pick up n play nature?
Well i have and am now getting in alot more fantasy action, the problem? i like 40k more, so i dont want GW to AOS 40k as i like it how it is but id also like some loose rules to skirmish it up with 40k AOS style, so im starting a 40k AoS convertion.
I with post up in this tread as it is completed for help and crit. Any ideas/crit of the bat please feel free!

Sorry, but I don't know what's the point in this. There's already a low point 40k "Skirmish" variant - it's called Kill Team and it's much better than AoS.

If you want to use more miniatures and keep it "skirmish style", play 40k...?

This thread has a definite stench of Kerosene

Kill team is quite different. It adds rules it does not thin them.
Do not accuse me of flame bating. That is in fact what you are doing. if you dont care for this then please dont post. unless you have questions or insight.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
TURN PHASE:
Hero phase: Psychic Powers and leadership commands.
The Warlord may use its command power and any other powers, other units may use powers. Psychers may use psychic abilities, these maybe countered by enemy Psychers or other able units. A Psychers may use a number of abilities equal to its mastery stat.

Movement phase: May move units six inches or run them +D6 inches, unless otherwise stated.
Models in units must remain within 2 inches of each other once they have finished movement. Models may run adding D6 inches to its move. Models that run may not charge in the assault phase. Models that run may only fire non heavy weapons and may only fire snap shots in the shooting phase. Models may not move within 3 inches of enemy models.

Shooting phase: Units may shoot ranged weapons.
Each unit with ranged weapons may fire a weapon per model, unless a different number of weapons is stated in there profile. Each model may pick a different target for its shooting, for each unit choose all targets before rolling any dice.

Assault phase: Units within 12 inches of the enemy may charge.
Models that did not run may charge in the assault phase. Models charge 2D6 inches. Only units that are within 12 inches of enemy models may declare charges regardless of their max charge. Charging units may throw one of each grenade type they have at the target unit, each grenade must be thrown by a different model. Models with non-blast ranged weapons that are charged may fire overwatch, overwatch is fired before any models are moved.

Assault Sub Phase: Initiative and making attacks.
Once models have made there charge moves, pick a close combat, units in base to base contact are in close combat. Each player rolls a die for each unit they have in the close combat adding there models initiative to the roll along with any modifiers. Models that charged this turn gain +1 initiative. Units now attack in descending order, any units that drew when taking their initiative test attack at the same time. When it is a models turn to attack they may pile in towards the closes enemy model by the shortest route possible up to 3 inches, to try to get into base contact. Once piled in all models that are within 3 inches of an enemy model in base to base contact may attack. Models may attack with either any two weapons they carry that have the melee or pistol damage type or they may use the generic Melee attack listed at the bottom of their weapons as ‘Base Attack’. Models may not leave combat until it has been fully resolved, with one side having been killed off. Keep track of how much damage a unit has both taken and given out if the combat is not resolved as this is used in the battleshock phase.

Battleshock phase: Units that took casualties take a leadership tests.
Units that took casualties during the turn must take a leadership test. Add the losses of a unit to a D6 roll if it is higher than its highest leadership you lose that many additional wounds on that unit.
Units that are still in close combat that took more unsaved wounds than they gave out during the assault phase suffer a penalty to their leadership equal to the difference in the close combat damage.

Actually, the Heralds of Ruin Kill Team is very good for what it is. Small scale, campaign options, great customisability. I'd advise you take a look at it, it's very good.
Less rules are used and it's far more balanced than current 40k. Rules are also generally free to get and the codexes are free to download.
I'm sorry if this dampens your spirits, but it would save you a great deal of time, instead of making something when it already exists.

Thanks i will take a look, only kill team id seen was the semi official ones that are quite old, plus they seemed lacking. Dont worry it hasnt dampened my spirits too much i'll probably still do my own regardless of the effort as i find it 'fun' lol but im unsure if i continue to post it up here, which is a shame as i would like to share with others.

Edit: had a quick look over Herald kill team its good and i recommend others look to but its does not entirely do what i was aiming for but im sure it will influence my rules. Thanks again.

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
Kill team is quite different. It adds rules it does not thin them.
Do not accuse me of flame bating. That is in fact what you are doing. if you dont care for this then please dont post. unless you have questions or insight.

No HQ, Heavy Support, Flyers, Allies
No 2+ saves, no models with more than 3 Wounds
No vehicles with more than 33 total Armour Value points
No units may Deep Strike

You MUST pick a character OR your highest Ld unit to be a Leader
You MUST pick 3 non-vehicle Specialists, who each get assigned a Special Rule
Each model operates individually as its own unit, not as a squad
If reduced to half its models, a Kill Team starts taking Ld-based Break Tests

Where does this not thin the rules?

My insight is simple - you're wasting your time with this. It's a laudable endeavour, but it's not really going to add something that can't already be found?

Thank you for elaborating, but I was aiming for doesnt intend on me to tell my friend ive got a version of 40k to try but you cant use half your stuff and each model is it own unit. already play miniature narrative games like that(ie use similar kill team style interaction rules), looking for a straightforward version of 40k ala AOS(with out holes) IMO kill team doesnt thin the rules so much as leave out parts as its on a more intimate scales with a specific thematic scope, and it does add rules in to help those interactions, ie like the break tests you mentioned, but im not here to knock kill team i like kill team and appreciate people suggesting it.

Sorry if my description was lacking or anything, and i guess i appreciate the sentiment of helping with my time management, but i cant help shift the feeling that isn't an entirely accurate portrait of peoples agenda. Maybe if i expand further and we can drop the AOS references and just look at it as something different, ive not meant to offend anyone im just not happy being pigeon holed. In fact im gunna change the opening statement to hopefully be more clear and not mention AOS.

The thing is, you have to understand how the game works in order to be able to play it. Every game, from monopoly to D&D to 40k, has rules you have to learn in order to play. 40k isn't vastly complex, and the rules section of the rulebook is actually pretty thin. Simplifying the rules, I think, is what you're after, to make it easier for noobs to get in and start playing a game with little introduction. If you want to try, go for it, I'm interested to see what you come up with, but be aware a decent intro to 40k can be accomplished with a small 800 point game composed purely of infantry and a quick game can be a kill team game... With just infantry.

Of course, if your gaming group really wants to play they would actually learn the rules and only play small games so they don't take up a day or an entire afternoon.

 McNinja wrote:
The thing is, you have to understand how the game works in order to be able to play it. Every game, from monopoly to D&D to 40k, has rules you have to learn in order to play. 40k isn't vastly complex, and the rules section of the rulebook is actually pretty thin. Simplifying the rules, I think, is what you're after, to make it easier for noobs to get in and start playing a game with little introduction. If you want to try, go for it, I'm interested to see what you come up with, but be aware a decent intro to 40k can be accomplished with a small 800 point game composed purely of infantry and a quick game can be a kill team game... With just infantry.

Of course, if your gaming group really wants to play they would actually learn the rules and only play small games so they don't take up a day or an entire afternoon.

Yeah its a shame(and great) that everyone's minds aren't the same in this respect, I have no issue with the rules have played since 4th and would be happy to teach people and i have and will continue, but for what ever reason some people just don't absorb the tables and stats well (hell i have this issue with celebrities and phone numbers lol) so i guess i just want to make it more fun for them to not feel burdened and for me not be repeating my self(the 50th game of necrons vs space marines and still getting questions about how they interact?! its like all 4's seriously? lol :( ). so Id like a rule set that has unit cards where the info needed to use the unit is right there plus a small like maybe 5-6 pages of rules so its more medium depth board game level rules than its current inception, it certainly not going to be to everyones tastes hell parts kinda make we wince but just wanted share incase anyone had a friend that was kinda interested or had models but didnt enjoy playing to try it anew, and of course to get feed back on things that have been scratched/changed/decided by me.

Some of things i would really like help on is re-balancing i thought if was going to mess with the rules this much hell i might as well go all out, so ive rewritten/converted stats and weapons and devised a new damage system, hay it might all be trash but id like some varied feed back to make sure!