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Is the Knight Errant ever worth taking over the Paladin? The Thermal Cannon looks ok but not as good in general as having two battle cannon shots. It's a large blast melta but unless there's a tightly spaced vehicle squadron you're realistically only going to be hitting one vehicle with it which doesn't make it much better than a multi melta. I suppose you could hit terminator squads with it but the melta rule is no use there.

The battle cannon just seems more versatile with its range and ordnance although I suppose it would struggle against 2+ saves. Any experiences and advice appreciated.

There is no reason to take the errant over the paladin. Anything the battle cannons have trouble shooting at (such as 2+ armor) the paladin can just kill with its D-weapon

I have to disagree. Its situational. Between the two, you want an Errant if you need to kill 2+ save models. The Paladin is better suited to longer range, anti-MEQ. The actual better Knight is the Warden, who's rate of fire fulfills both roles.

SJ

for a 'Knight of the line', Paladin all the way. The swiss army knife of Knights, thgeres nothing you cant do.

if you want a thermal cannon, take it on the crusader, so you can pop the tank, then scythe down the occupants in the same phase. Otherwise you're a little at odds being very specialised & relatively short-range

Eh, The errant is warming up to me. the thermal cannon has it's uses (blowing up vehicles) and such, and there are times I wish I had AP2 instead of 3. Still, I guess it's what you prefer.

Why play the Errant when you can play the Warden? Avenger Gatling Cannon trumps the Thermal Cannon in every respect due to Rending. Otherwise, if it has to be between the Paladin and Errant, definitely Paladin. Battle Cannon is mathematically better at killing than the Thermal.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why play the Errant when you can play the Warden? Avenger Gatling Cannon trumps the Thermal Cannon in every respect due to Rending. Otherwise, if it has to be between the Paladin and Errant, definitely Paladin. Battle Cannon is mathematically better at killing than the Thermal.

Maybe it's a chaos knight so you can't take Warden. (That's pretty much why read this thread)

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why play the Errant when you can play the Warden? Avenger Gatling Cannon trumps the Thermal Cannon in every respect due to Rending. Otherwise, if it has to be between the Paladin and Errant, definitely Paladin. Battle Cannon is mathematically better at killing than the Thermal.

Maybe it's a chaos knight so you can't take Warden. (That's pretty much why read this thread)

The OP never mentions Chaos once in their initial post.

And yet the question was paladin vs. errant.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
And yet the question was paladin vs. errant.

which I answered. Paladin. All the way.

I agree with ya.

I disagree - the errant is my first choice if I can only take 1 of the 2 in question.

My original trio is 2 errants and a paladin. The errants primary weapon wants you to close with the enemy and that's fine since you pack a D weapon in combat.

The paladin seems to encourage you to hang back and shoot but if you want 2 battle cannon shots, there are more points efficient ways of getting that in most armies.

The Thermal Cannon is a unique weapon and only available on knights. Its flexible, fairly reliable and more dangerous to armoured targets as you close.

True the warden is probably better than either the paladin or errant but in a choice between the 2 (and without a context or list to work out which will work best) I would go errant.

3 Paladins = Your other army better bring melta and lascannons

3 Errants= Your other army better be full of scat bike equivalent fire power.

To clarify, my question was with chaos knights in mind; I should have been clearer that I wasn't considering the other knight types that chaos don't get access to. So the choice for me would be a single knight in the LoW slot, either a Paladin or Errant, which essentially boils down to taking a rapid fire battle cannon or a thermal cannon.

it seems the Paladin is a more popular all round option but some are advocating the use of an Errant as well. The battle cannon has greater range and firepower with 2 shots, but it's true that you'd want the knight to be moving towards the enemy to make use of the D chainsword, so the thermal cannon is going to be in range before long anyway.

On a side note, can a knight fire the 2 shots from its battle cannon at different targets? That might help me decide.

Which is the best knight against WraithKnights?

I thought it would be the Errant.

Against wraithknights (where your target has a 3+ save) the battle cannon fire is just better. The extra point of strength is nice, but going from a 4+ to a 3+ to wound doesn't make up for not getting 2 shots.

One Errant in a big force can be nice. It's all a balancing act; the Warden can take its gatling and a thermal cannon but then it lacks a destroyer melee weapon...which means it's going to be more hesitant advancing up the field.

If sticking purely with 'classic' knights, then one errant is probably enough unless you expect massed, massed 2+ saves.

Even then, as noted, gatling cannons are a better choice a lot of the time - certainly at handling big stompy monsters as they land multiple hits where a single blast only lands 1.

 Mantorok wrote:
Which is the best knight against WraithKnights?

I thought it would be the Errant.

Why? Both guns ignore the wraithknight's armor save. 2 shots wounding on 4+ is way better then 1 shot wounding on 3+

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:
Which is the best knight against WraithKnights?

I thought it would be the Errant.

Why? Both guns ignore the wraithknight's armor save. 2 shots wounding on 4+ is way better then 1 shot wounding on 3+

Well now that I say it out loud it makes me sound stupid.

The problem is that 3++ saves are just too easy to make for the wraithknight.

Maybe I should just use a vindicare.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
To clarify, my question was with chaos knights in mind; I should have been clearer that I wasn't considering the other knight types that chaos don't get access to. So the choice for me would be a single knight in the LoW slot, either a Paladin or Errant, which essentially boils down to taking a rapid fire battle cannon or a thermal cannon.

it seems the Paladin is a more popular all round option but some are advocating the use of an Errant as well. The battle cannon has greater range and firepower with 2 shots, but it's true that you'd want the knight to be moving towards the enemy to make use of the D chainsword, so the thermal cannon is going to be in range before long anyway.

On a side note, can a knight fire the 2 shots from its battle cannon at different targets? That might help me decide.

i think its better to ally as Come the Apocalypse to get a Crusader or GallantOr warden and either sit them in the opposite corner of your main CSM force. Never deploy 12" and never be 1" of each other to cause one eye open.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
To clarify, my question was with chaos knights in mind; I should have been clearer that I wasn't considering the other knight types that chaos don't get access to. So the choice for me would be a single knight in the LoW slot, either a Paladin or Errant, which essentially boils down to taking a rapid fire battle cannon or a thermal cannon.

it seems the Paladin is a more popular all round option but some are advocating the use of an Errant as well. The battle cannon has greater range and firepower with 2 shots, but it's true that you'd want the knight to be moving towards the enemy to make use of the D chainsword, so the thermal cannon is going to be in range before long anyway.

On a side note, can a knight fire the 2 shots from its battle cannon at different targets? That might help me decide.

No. The rapid-fire battlecannon is one weapon with two shots, not two seperate weapons.

If you're only taking one knight as a Lord Of War in a chaos list.....It depends on the army they're supporting. A chaos army can get nice amounts of ranged AP2 from plasma-wielding chosen, or ranged AP3 from baleflamer helldrakes, and so on. Equip the knight to cover the blind spot of the rest of the army.

Also; chaos knights are very much more a melee platform than their imperial equivalent; Daemon Knight of Chaos gives you a 5++ save on all facings - which is good, because as you advance you're inevitably going to get caught in crossfire (something knights hate) and a save in melee too. In addition, most of the Daemon Knight of rules help in assaults - reroll '1's with tzeench, extra attacks/stomps with khorne, reducing opponent's initiative with slaanesh. Plus, if you're up against a wraithknight, the foe-reaper chainsword's special rule - which is target-specific but terrifying - comes into play...

locarno24 wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
To clarify, my question was with chaos knights in mind; I should have been clearer that I wasn't considering the other knight types that chaos don't get access to. So the choice for me would be a single knight in the LoW slot, either a Paladin or Errant, which essentially boils down to taking a rapid fire battle cannon or a thermal cannon.

it seems the Paladin is a more popular all round option but some are advocating the use of an Errant as well. The battle cannon has greater range and firepower with 2 shots, but it's true that you'd want the knight to be moving towards the enemy to make use of the D chainsword, so the thermal cannon is going to be in range before long anyway.

On a side note, can a knight fire the 2 shots from its battle cannon at different targets? That might help me decide.

No. The rapid-fire battlecannon is one weapon with two shots, not two seperate weapons.

If you're only taking one knight as a Lord Of War in a chaos list.....It depends on the army they're supporting. A chaos army can get nice amounts of ranged AP2 from plasma-wielding chosen, or ranged AP3 from baleflamer helldrakes, and so on. Equip the knight to cover the blind spot of the rest of the army.

Also; chaos knights are very much more a melee platform than their imperial equivalent; Daemon Knight of Chaos gives you a 5++ save on all facings - which is good, because as you advance you're inevitably going to get caught in crossfire (something knights hate) and a save in melee too. In addition, most of the Daemon Knight of rules help in assaults - reroll '1's with tzeench, extra attacks/stomps with khorne, reducing opponent's initiative with slaanesh. Plus, if you're up against a wraithknight, the foe-reaper chainsword's special rule - which is target-specific but terrifying - comes into play...

I'd probably be taking the knight in a Daemonkin list where it would have to be Khorne, or in a Daemons list with the option to cheese it up a bitusing the Grimoire and Cursed Earth. Either way the rest of the army wouldn't be especially shooty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
An allied Imperial Knight is out of the question as a) it's horribly unfluffy b) I have the chaos version already and c) I'd certainly want to take advantage of the dirge caster that the chaos knights can take.

Allying IK with Chaos is fluffy. There were a number of Knight Houses that allied with the Dark Mechanicus. While hasn't been covered yet, we can assume the actual Chaos Knights are Knights fully absorbed into the Chaos forces, while allied Knights are honored bound but not yet turned.

SJ

I just built mine (FW) and went for the thermal cannon for my KDK army, the whole army is gonna move fwd, so the Knight will be among those units taking care of the range disadvantage, also having an AP2 melta large blast can help you open up near transport for the rest of your daemonkin to assault.

Saying that CSM have lots of AP2 due to the use of plasmas isn't really true, sure you can spam them but plasmas are expensive, and have that chance of blowint in your face, also S7 isn't great to deal with anything with a better AV than a rhino.

That being said, I magnetized the range weapon so that I can eventually try both, magnetizing is pretty simple actually and would recommend doing so.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Allying IK with Chaos is fluffy. There were a number of Knight Houses that allied with the Dark Mechanicus. While hasn't been covered yet, we can assume the actual Chaos Knights are Knights fully absorbed into the Chaos forces, while allied Knights are honored bound but not yet turned.

SJ

Yes I suppose that's a decent backstory that could explain it. I'd prefer to keep everything chaos though to take advantage of blood tithe, dirge casters and daemon inv saves, and not have to worry about spacing between models on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
I just built mine (FW) and went for the thermal cannon for my KDK army, the whole army is gonna move fwd, so the Knight will be among those units taking care of the range disadvantage, also having an AP2 melta large blast can help you open up near transport for the rest of your daemonkin to assault.

Saying that CSM have lots of AP2 due to the use of plasmas isn't really true, sure you can spam them but plasmas are expensive, and have that chance of blowint in your face, also S7 isn't great to deal with anything with a better AV than a rhino.

That being said, I magnetized the range weapon so that I can eventually try both, magnetizing is pretty simple actually and would recommend doing so.

indeed, that was partly the reason behind my post, whether to bother trying to magnetise the weapon options during assembly, or just go for the battle cannon if I'm never likely to take the thermal cannon. Looks like I'll just take the plunge and do the magnets, can you recommend any decent guide/tutorial for it?

I followed this guide (The link has the timer set to when he asssemble the weapons):

https://youtu.be/ZcWbEPE116M?t=2735




Basically you commit the arm to what you think you will be using the most and magnetize the barrels, both barrels (thermal and cannon) are hollow, this guy builds some sort of cone that ends on a magnet. I just cut one of the sprue pieces cut it so that it could fit inside the holes on the arm and barrel, glued them and added the magnets

I think it depends on what role it fits in your army. I prefer the Errant.

Mine are magnetized behind the plates behind the barrels, its kinda rough with the little ammo box and stuff but that's also just magneted, and also I didn't glue it at waist, so it is detachable.