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Hello everyone! So I have recently received my Mechanicum Red Book from Forge World, and on perusal saw the Ordo Reductor Matrix of Ruin detachment.

Having always had a fascination with the Auxilia Myrmidon, do you guys think the Matrix of Ruin would be a good way of fielding a Destructor sub-cult? Or should I stick with the conventional Taghmata list?

Also, for an army designed to be used against threats both in 30k and in 40k, which weapon load out options do you guys think is the best for Destructors and Thallaxi?

For Thallax, it depends on how you use them. 3-man units with a melta can deep strike behind vehicles (hooray for the tank hunters upgrade, too). Otherwise, I like to field them as "line" units with plasma fusils in 6-man units when possible.

For Myrmidon Destructors, it really comes down to two choices, in my opinion. Volkite Culverins to put the hurt on infantry and light vehicles (and don't forget that preferred enemy reroll), or conversion beamers for heavier targets.

Agreed. The Photon Thruster is the best 'tactical' weapon upgrade - it's AP2, fires two shots at a time, and with Lance it can theoretically glance heavy tanks to death.

It's also the most expensive, has Gets Hot and isn't especially great at any single role. Plasma Fusils kill anything sub-terminator better, and multimeltas handle tanks and heavies more efficiently.

It depends what supporting units you've got. S6 AP3 is easy to lay your hands on in a mechanicum army because phase-plasma fusils and mauler bolt cannons both put out many, many shots. You can easily compromise cover saves with assorted upgrades, as well, and you're not especially vulnerable to massed small arms. AP2 weaponry and anti-heavy tank units are your main requirements.

Alright. I've also considered not giving the units any special weapons, but chainblades and meltabombs and the Ferrox upgrade for Rage and Rending. Terrible idea?

I hate conversion beamers on the Destructors - it is very easy for the enemy to get his valuable units within 42". I agree on the culverins.

What about the Radiation Engines and Graviton Imploders? I personally love Rad-Engines in my normal taghmata games so far...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Alright. I've also considered not giving the units any special weapons, but chainblades and meltabombs and the Ferrox upgrade for Rage and Rending. Terrible idea?

I've looked over the army lists a great deal, but I don't have any practical experience on the tabletop. Do you really want your Thallaxi in close combat? The Ursarax (no models, I know ) and Secutors fill that role a lot better.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Hello everyone! So I have recently received my Mechanicum Red Book from Forge World, and on perusal saw the Ordo Reductor Matrix of Ruin detachment.

Having always had a fascination with the Auxilia Myrmidon, do you guys think the Matrix of Ruin would be a good way of fielding a Destructor sub-cult? Or should I stick with the conventional Taghmata list?

Also, for an army designed to be used against threats both in 30k and in 40k, which weapon load out options do you guys think is the best for Destructors and Thallaxi?

Huzzah! welcome aboard, brother!

The matrix of ruin is a terrible way to field myrmidon destructors - you can't take allies or fortifications and there are no real benefits to filling the heavy support slots with something which isn't a tank as tanks become scoring in the enemy deployment zone. I don't know if you'll gain any benefit from the movement rules that come with the matrix of ruin as I don't have my book with me (at uni right now) but it restricts your HQ selection too.
So it might not be your cup of tea, but maybe you have some minotaur's lying around?
Matrix of ruin is really for the 'tread-heads' and artillery fiends if I'm honest.

I'm a big fan of the phased plasma fusil on thallax in cohorts of 6 but I don't bother with the icarian upgrade - thallax are much more useful than a casual anti-air irritation!

you have unmanned turrets or mechanicum flyers available as a proper anti-air threat.

I like my destructors to have irradiation engines for torrent templates of AP3 - bail them out of a triaros while shooting for maximum effect.

Alright. I've also considered not giving the units any special weapons, but chainblades and meltabombs and the Ferrox upgrade for Rage and Rending. Terrible idea?

Not terrible - they're fast around the board, and have good strength and can tank small arms fire and melee attacks well. But whilst Ferrox upgrades, chainblades, and meltabombs aren't bad, I would always, always fill out the weapon upgrade slots.

Compare the firepower of three lightning guns to one plasma fusil and two lightning guns and it's not even close. You get something like two and a half times the killing power against marines by taking a plasma fusil upgrade.

Indeed! I've already picked up on the triaros + flamers thing.

The reason I wanted to use the Matrix of Ruin is the 4 heavy support slots without giving up first turn, -and- I don't have any other troops choices besides Thallaxi and only two Castellax models anyways.

It could be possible to run an Allied Legio Cybernetica detachment to my regular Taghmata detachment to get 4 heavy supports, of course...

As for close combat, the Usarax I don't like as much because they're a lower strength (heavy chainblades make the Thallaxi str 7 and AP5) and the thallaxi have access to meltabombs.

Secutors are worse than destructors in CC in my experience, as the secutors only have power axes and nothing else, while the Destructors have power fists and preferred enemy (stuff).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

locarno24 wrote:

Alright. I've also considered not giving the units any special weapons, but chainblades and meltabombs and the Ferrox upgrade for Rage and Rending. Terrible idea?

Not terrible - they're fast around the board, and have good strength and can tank small arms fire and melee attacks well. But whilst Ferrox upgrades, chainblades, and meltabombs aren't bad, I would always, always fill out the weapon upgrade slots.

Compare the firepower of three lightning guns to one plasma fusil and two lightning guns and it's not even close. You get something like two and a half times the killing power against marines by taking a plasma fusil upgrade.

In the Red Book, Ferrox can't take any weapon upgrades.

And I have no need for AP3, really. The single unit of myrmidons in a tank with rad-engines tends to vaporize any 3+ save unit I wish.

Perhaps a bodyguard of scyllax could fill your CC option? they're more expensive than a cohort of thallax, but definetly better suited to CC. they can't be your compulsory troops choices is the bad side.

The legio cybernetica list has some nice tricks up it's sleeve - the magos dominus combined with compulsory troop castellax is a mini-deathstar! (imo)

Yeah, I do have 2x castellax which is the minimum troops size for Cybernetica, and the Patris Cybernetica rule is freaking awesome.

As for CC, I actually usually kit out my HQ as a malagran, and stick him with the rad-engine myrmidons. He almost always gets the charge, as 4d3 preferred enemy AP3 fleshbane hits is usually enough to deter people (plus 1d3 from his machinator array flamer).

Is it true that the Destroyers still have Preffered enemy everything? because that makes the fleshbane flamers Heldrake levels of awesome.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Is it true that the Destroyers still have Preffered enemy everything? because that makes the fleshbane flamers Heldrake levels of awesome.

Yes, Myrmidon destructors have Preferred Enemy: Everything.

They're freaking fantastic if you're willing to pay upwards of 80 points a model.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Yes, Myrmidon destructors have Preferred Enemy: Everything.

They're freaking fantastic if you're willing to pay upwards of 80 points a model.

Yep, but another reason why I like to run them with the Volkite Culverins, as that is the cheapest option. A unit of six with Volkite still runs about 400 points.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Yes, Myrmidon destructors have Preferred Enemy: Everything.

They're freaking fantastic if you're willing to pay upwards of 80 points a model.

Yep, but another reason why I like to run them with the Volkite Culverins, as that is the cheapest option. A unit of six with Volkite still runs about 400 points.

I only use units of 4 - do you think you -need- units of 6? I would need two more orders. I suppose if I am running a Myrmidon Cult I should just get 3 squads of 10

I don't know that I need a unit of 6 Volkite Myrmidons, but I do like it. That unit will statistically paste 10 marines in one turn of shooting, with even more damage to lesser troops. And 24 S6 shots will certainly hurt any light vehicle. But, the unit does attract a lot of attention, and that T5 W2 statline only goes so far with a 3+/5++

Hmm.

I find 4 of each is usually enough, but more is perhaps a good idea. Why not 40 volkite shots or 10 Fleshbane torrents?

I can't wait to expand my 40k Admech army with some 30k stuff, I already have 6 thallax and 2 castellax, and my list grows. It's neat because the 30k units are easily subbed in for 40k counterparts. Hopefully the rumored IA book we're supposed to be getting will give us some neat toys. Here's hoping for cult mech thallax troops!

I think I'm going to get some Myrmidons and more Thallax next. Myrmidons are an excellent stand-in for Kataphrons, and are excellent units when used as themselves too.

Fortunately, my local meta just lets me use Mechanicum in 40k, so no need for the new Cult Mechanicus or Skitarii stuffs.

I want to have it all

Haha well maybe so!

So, if any tactics discussion is still happening, what do you all think is the best Mechanicum LOW under or around 1000 points?

Ordinatus? Knight (x2)? Warhound? 2x Macharius (using the boxout)?

Given that there is an enemy SH/GC on the table then the ordinatus might be best for it's dispersion field nuetering enemy shooting against it for the first few turns.

I've got a warhound and knights - i'd prefer to take the warhound over the knights because of the weaponry available on it.
With the knights it's tricky to choose which ones to take, but i get no such issues with the warhound - plasma blastgun and a TBTLD every time!

 SirDonlad wrote:
Given that there is an enemy SH/GC on the table then the ordinatus might be best for it's dispersion field nuetering enemy shooting against it for the first few turns.

I've got a warhound and knights - i'd prefer to take the warhound over the knights because of the weaponry available on it.
With the knights it's tricky to choose which ones to take, but i get no such issues with the warhound - plasma blastgun and a TBTLD every time!

But the Ordinatus is cheaper and arguably better against other superheavies, with a chance to one-shot the Warhound while the Warhound couldn't one-shot the Ordinatus (at least without rolling fantastically well).

Sure, but i don't own an ordinatus.




edit: yet...

Well nor do I! But it is worth considering!

No, you misunderstand - the first line of my response:

Given that there is an enemy SH/GC on the table then the ordinatus might be best for it's dispersion field nuetering enemy shooting against it for the first few turns.

that was me trying to say "the ordinatus may be best" and recognising the awesomeness of it's dispersion field.

I've got a warhound and knights - i'd prefer to take the warhound over the knights..

And this was me giving my opinion on which i use out of the selection you specified that i actually own, with the hope of clarifying the better of the other two options.


All good?

Oh sorry! I caught the dumb.

So do you think the Ulator or Belicosa Ordinatus is better?

I like the big sonic gun ordinatus. How many chances do you get to go to a hardware store to make the template for your weapon? That'll be one long sheet of plexiglass cut to 7" wide, please.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I like the big sonic gun ordinatus. How many chances do you get to go to a hardware store to make the template for your weapon? That'll be one long sheet of plexiglass cut to 7" wide, please.

Haha fantastic.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So do you think the Ulator or Belicosa Ordinatus is better?

Ohh. Tough call!
I dearly love the sonic destructor, but i'm getting the feeling that i'd want the volano cannon.

The variable firing modes with the Ulator are fun, but only deliver S5 to infantry and S8 to MC's and tanks - volcano cannon delivers 'D' to whatever is under it.

The jury is out on whether the extra targets under the template and hitting stuff out of LOS is worth the 375 point difference - you could take a knight with it for that!
I recon it's very situational - in a massive apoc game (10,000+pts) it would be the lynchpin of the army - everthing else would be manouvering to enable the best possible ordinatus shot!
Any other big game and i'm going for the Sagittar for the consistency of firepower and the indentured imperial knight with the points difference.

What do you think?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Oh sorry! I caught the dumb.

So do you think the Ulator or Belicosa Ordinatus is better?

Ulator by a billion miles! It's gonna kill - everything. You won't get it in games less than 4.5k though- well, at least not until it comes to 40k anyway, then I expect you'll see it quite frequently...