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New Tau is

So, one Battlesuit Commander and Codex for me then

also http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/667092.page

Discuss what you like/hate/are-indifferent-on with the new Tau range.

I had a very early prediction to this (in the "breachers are poo" thread) I'm wondering if Tau will be called the new eldar by Christmas haha.

Aside from price, I only have a few minor gripes:

-Lack of new chassis vehicle or variant on current chassis: C'mon, it can't be ALWAYS SUITS ALL THE TIME. Surely the devilfish chassis could've received a pulse driver/missile platform?

-Ghostkeel not being a HQ choice. :( The Tau elite slots (if playing CAD) are cramped enough as it is

-Alien auxiliaries: Maybe the more recently encountered species said "Sorry but no" when confronted with the greater good

-Lack of walker vehicle. I'm talking like a mech warrior equivalent like the KX139 and so on but crossed with say, an AT-TE.

The new kits are on the whole pretty well done though I won't be getting any. The redesigned drone sprue is excellent (huge fan of the tau drone) though it'd be nice if they were 4 to a sprue and could make 4 of gun/shield/marker drones.

I agree with all what SpincCycleDreadnought said.
Just a bit disappointed by some of the formations, which seems a bit overpowered (always hitting the vehicle in the rear without any cover ? Seriously ? )
If I had to make Tau, it will be an infantry and vehicles heavy army (this kits are so beautiful).

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:


-Lack of walker vehicle

But Tau walkers aren't vehicles, they're MC's. It's like you want to run the risk of your unit being crippled or one-shotted by enemy anti-tank.

 Lukash_ wrote:

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:


-Lack of walker vehicle

But Tau walkers aren't vehicles, they're MC's. It's like you want to run the risk of your unit being crippled or one-shotted by enemy anti-tank.

The distinction between Walker and MC is bizarre. In the case of Tau Battlesuits, they initially wanted them to be treated as what amounted to Bikes(being 'ridden' rather than 'piloted').

But then we get this Supremacy Armor and the Stormsurge, both of which rebuff the standard caveat of the Battlesuits(them being single pilots directly interfacing with the wargear) by having multiple crew members.

Supremacy Armor and Stormsurge both should have been Superheavy Walkers.

Honestly, I think Walker and Monstrous Creatures should be more strictly defined: Walkers should be represented by large, piloted suits whereas Monstrous Creatures should be biological creatures (with the exception of Kastellans and maybe Daemon Engines which I honestly think should be monstrous creatures, especially Heldrakes as that would simplify their rules) , non-piloted models of a particularly large size. Riptides/other big Tau suits, and Dreadknights should be walkers imho. Regular Battlesuits are small enough to be considered large suits of powered armour, I guess.

Problem with that is it basically makes every Tau list vulnerable to melta even more.

gg

As I've said earlier, the new Tau are at about the same level of power as Space Marines. The have a really nasty formation in the Hunter Contingent, and an overpowered unit in the form of the Buffmander. The main difference with Tau is that they only reach peak OP if you use both together; take either without the other, and they suddenly become much more balanced.

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Problem with that is it basically makes every Tau list vulnerable to melta even more.

gg

Not really?

If the Stormsurge and Supremacy Ballistic Suits went SHW, they're the only ones which would be inherently vulnerable to Melta's Armour Penetration bonus.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
As I've said earlier, the new Tau are at about the same level of power as Space Marines. The have a really nasty formation in the Hunter Contingent, and an overpowered unit in the form of the Buffmander. The main difference with Tau is that they only reach peak OP if you use both together; take either without the other, and they suddenly become much more balanced.

This seems a pretty accurate assessment of their current power level, IMO.

Strong but not broken by any means in their un-formation lists, but with the bonuses they quickly get out of control.

Seems to be the trend with codexes post necrons. If you don't take the silly formation that gives a ton of nonsensical bonuses the game becomes much more balanced.

Tau is the new eldar and more, by far it's at the top of the power tier. Which is good because now maybe people will stop complaint about eldar so much lol

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Seems to be the trend with codexes post necrons. If you don't take the silly formation that gives a ton of nonsensical bonuses the game becomes much more balanced.

Well, yes and no.
Necrons, Da, Tau, and SM, barring formations, are not bad against each other. I'd probably rank Necrons as the strongest but not by a lot. Maybe 55-45 matchup favor.

Eldar are still way too strong barring formations. I'd expect to see house rules in place that limit them unless formations are allowed, in which case the kid gloves can come off.

Many of the weaker dexes, with or without formations, still don't get to play with the newer dexes, formations or no. The game is better without them, but its also better without BA, Eldar, Chaos Marines, possibly DE and IG too.
I'd say Orks, but removing Orks is heresy.

People are overreacting. The Hunter Cadre is devastating against death stars and decent against everything else.

nudibranch wrote:
People are overreacting. The Hunter Cadre is devastating against death stars and decent against everything else.

No people are obviously not overreacting. Tau was just about the only 6th edition book that did not need an update. Sure, they are currently bottom top-tier/ higher mid-tier and not "OMG-Eldar-OP". However, I currently play 4 armies: Skitarii (played as Dark mechanicum), Chaos space marines, Tyranids and Necrons. Unless I'm playing necrons, I know I'm unpacking most of my models just to put them back where they came from.

Whether I move my bikers (for example) or not, it matters not, they're not going to reach their intended target, and neither is the other 1/2 of my army.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:


-Lack of walker vehicle

But Tau walkers aren't vehicles, they're MC's.

The distinction between Walker and MC is bizarre

It's bs.

We should all email GW every day to get rid of the Walker Vehicle and make Dreads, Sentinels, etc MCs.

If they say no, email them twice a day.

DaPino wrote:

nudibranch wrote:
People are overreacting. The Hunter Cadre is devastating against death stars and decent against everything else.

No people are obviously not overreacting. Tau was just about the only 6th edition book that did not need an update. Sure, they are currently bottom top-tier/ higher mid-tier and not "OMG-Eldar-OP". However, I currently play 4 armies: Skitarii (played as Dark mechanicum), Chaos space marines, Tyranids and Necrons. Unless I'm playing necrons, I know I'm unpacking most of my models just to put them back where they came from.

Whether I move my bikers (for example) or not, it matters not, they're not going to reach their intended target, and neither is the other 1/2 of my army.

People have been calling them 'the new Eldar'. You said they are not that. Therefore you agree with me that people are overreacting.

I'm, disappointed, but not in their power level. We got what is essentially a paid FAQ/errata. Also, Devilfish stayed the same price, so that's annoying. And it looks like stealthsuits are still overpriced as well. On the other hand, 9-man crisis suit teams is pretty ridiculous. And the ability to take the tanks in 3 man squadrons it pretty cool. The fire-team rule a neat addition, it will defiantly help my playstyle.

The new Tau really don't seem like anything different from their 6E shenanigans. Either full Crisis Team squads or gunlines. Either way, I'm disappointed. Their new formations seem rather broken (like most other formations from 7E) and are in general just going to be another pain in the ass army to play against.

Reminder: Rule One is Be Polite and Rule Two is Stay On topic

I have deleted some offending posts. Please keep the discussion courteous and focused. Thanks!

In general the Tau releases have been decent for rules but its such a huge missed opportunity to fix some of the units like the Kroot, Vespids, Flyers, Snipers, and Skimmers who just don't get a lot of usage compared to the Manta load of mechs. GW's general lack of creativitiy again results in more big mechs instead of trying to breathe life into the more unique and cool concepts like the Tau Auxiliary Forces/Races. All that being said they didn't really break anything in the Codex (kind of hard to break anything with a copy paste) and some of the formations seem interesting so its a positive outcome in my book although GW has made it so I have to set the codex bar REALLY low to not get perpetually disappointed.

 Vankraken wrote:
In general the Tau releases have been decent for rules but its such a huge missed opportunity to fix some of the units like the Kroot, Vespids, Flyers, Snipers, and Skimmers who just don't get a lot of usage compared to the Manta load of mechs. GW's general lack of creativitiy again results in more big mechs instead of trying to breathe life into the more unique and cool concepts like the Tau Auxiliary Forces/Races. All that being said they didn't really break anything in the Codex (kind of hard to break anything with a copy paste) and some of the formations seem interesting so its a positive outcome in my book although GW has made it so I have to set the codex bar REALLY low to not get perpetually disappointed.

Some of the formations are downright dumb. I will agree, I would love to see less Riptides and more Kroot/Vespids/Flyers. It would make games against Tau more enjoyable.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I'm, disappointed, but not in their power level. We got what is essentially a paid FAQ/errata. Also, Devilfish stayed the same price, so that's annoying. And it looks like stealthsuits are still overpriced as well. On the other hand, 9-man crisis suit teams is pretty ridiculous. And the ability to take the tanks in 3 man squadrons it pretty cool. The fire-team rule a neat addition, it will defiantly help my playstyle.

Stealthsuits on their own may be overpriced, but put them in the Optimized Stealth Cadre, and they have BS4 (5 if using combined fire), Ignore Cover, and Always hit back armor of vehicles. I would say that is decent enough for 30 points lol.

9 man crisis teams is not as good as three, 3 man crisis teams. You get more mobility and even if you want all them to fire at the same target, they all get +1 BS which they do not if in one squad of 9.

I want stealthsuits to be good by themselves, they shouldn't have to be put in a formation to be good.

Also, I said ridiculous, not 'good'.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I want stealthsuits to be good by themselves, they shouldn't have to be put in a formation to be good.

Also, I said ridiculous, not 'good'.

That's my beef right there. Play these formations or you are going to be the same. I guess I am disappointed and delighted at the same time.

I want to field three Riptides and one Stormsurge with my crisis suits, I don't want firewarriors or kroot. Guess I need to wait for the Farsight treatment.

"should". Why do we still legally allow that word?

I'm wondering if a strong counter to the new Tau is just the good old fashioned MSU armies. Tau's greatest strengths seem to come from multiple units targeting the same unit (in most cases this means 3 units as near as I can tell). Do you really need 3 units to take down a rhino and 5 marines?

Now each of those units that didn't get fired on just need to concentrate fire to drop specific Tau units to less than 3 models. Now, they loose even more bonuses.

I also think because of the way these combined units are necessary, there may be a lot of wasted fire. I think it will actually take some pretty good forward thinking to get the most out of these combos. The army does not seem as plug and play as some of the other more powerhouse armies. Also because of this, I think a clever general should be able to come up with ways making the most of the kinks in the over all armor as it were.

I think this codex actually brings back a little tactical thinking to the game.

Well I mean the fact of the matter is, the army already still works as it was. so this ONLY INCREASEs the options. It did nothing to detract, at all.

The danger with new codex's is to dilute the core strengths of a codex with gimmics. The Librarian Conclave IS really cool but in the end, its like all glass hammers and not a lot of people are going to play that unless its a themed battle. Most would agree that its gimmick is cool, COULD cause some armies a problem...but ultimately is a gimmicky kind of thing that suffers against a plethora of opponents because of the points sync that it is.

The same goes for 130 point GhostKeels. I don't have a certainty in my mind about how good they will be, but their gimmick is trumped by the same thing ALL Tau get trumped by: We hate getting cauth in melee!

So the balance will be struck and some really cool things are going to happen andf lots of variety will happen which makes me happy. But I would really encourage the munchkins on this forum (and yes, lots of not-munchkins are on here so im not calling anyone specific out) to remember that you cant hit what isnt there and you cant shoot when your face is full o fist. A little balance nd a strong plan B are necessary for the Tau empire because LOOOOOTS of enemies are dropping from the skies and giving the Tau Empire frighteningly little time to do their grisly work.

 Lukash_ wrote:

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:


-Lack of walker vehicle

But Tau walkers aren't vehicles, they're MC's. It's like you want to run the risk of your unit being crippled or one-shotted by enemy anti-tank.

What I meant by that is a mech that has more than two legs- in place of say, a huge walker like the storm surge, the tau place all that fire power on a mech platform with 4 or so legs- like a non chaotic pulse firing defiler tank.