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Again, just like the Talvath, I think this is a fail for the design team. X-Wing is good at making upgrades to make under powered ships more playable, WK should learn something from them.

Upgrades like Unremarkable Species should have been 1 point if not 0 when deployed to a Kazon ship. Just as Advanced Scanning should have been 0 points for a Science Vessel and 5 for any other ship. If anyone should have scan for free it is a Science Vessel. WK just fails for these things that a particular ship should have naturally.

Variable yield charge should had been a Kazon version of Type 8 Phasers. The very least it should add a weapon slot, because as it is Variable Yield Charge can only go on the Halik Raider and the Predator Classes. On Predators it is a bit useless as it already has 4 attacks.

Surat is a terrible requiring an action and an Aux for only a scan, and nothing in the pack to synergize with a scan. Picard and Spock can add a scan as a free action. Would it have set the game on fire to allow a Kazon captain to have a free action scan? WTF!

For Lorrum and Kazon Guard, I do not even have words to describe how much of a waste of points they are.

The only redeemable cards in this pack are the Aft Launcher and the named ship. This could have been a fantastic pack. With a few minor bones thrown to the Kazon they could have been competetive and WK could have sold a lot of these. As it is I can't justify spending money for multiples.

Again lots of wasted opportunity, big fail WK.

http://www.startrek.com/article/first-look-halik-raider-for-attack-wing-wave-20

here is the link if you need it

Unremarkable Release indeed

Attack Wing should have been handled the exact same way as xwing, very few factions with lots of non-faction upgrades, with maybe a penalty add if not a federation ship etc.

Thanks for posting the link. I was soo distraught by the bad cards I forgot to put it in .

I don't think multiple factions is the problem. You can have a several factions and still have them play well.Kazon for example have 4 different ship classes and more then enough screen shots for content. The big issue in STAW right now is we have soo many cards that are just worthless. There is no reason to make a bad card in a game like this.

A lot of people say the federation will dominate the game because they have the most options. It doesn't have to be that way if more time was put into making cards that are actually worth playing. The feds just look the best because they have enough releases to over shadow their bad stuff. But when a faction is small like the Kazon and the design team maks some blatantly bad cards to fill a pack the whole faction suffers.

It just doesn't have to be that way. WK could be giving Kazon, Ferengi, Bajoran, and Vulcan good/useful cards if they just took their time. Yes feds will have more options but at the end of the day you can only use 100-120 points in an average game so the feds can't have all of their toys on the table at one time. It is also not an excuse to print crappie upgrades just for the sake of it.

With just two of the suggestions I made above WK could have sold a tone of these. 1) A Kazon equivalent to Type 8 Phaser and 2) make that Unremarkable card 0 points for Kazon.

People would buy 4+ for the weapon upgrade alone, if it was any good. I know people that have 4 sovereigns for 1 card. I have 6 of the Praetus. It is almost like WK has. O business sense at all

I think we are starting to see the unbearable weight of Star Trek Attack Wing, and it won't be too long before it breaks. As a "small" game with only a few waves (less then 10), each ship was pretty unique and each card was "good" different. As the waves stack up, we are seeing less and less innovation and more overlap through abilities. We are seeing some cards trying to deal with certain unbalances in the game- such as a ship with a natural 360 fire arc has a huge advantage over a ship that does not. Wizkids response: upgrade cards that expand fire arcs. Ships with poor firepower: Give them primary weapon upgrades. Mines? Tech that reduces their effects on the game. Fighters? Weapon upgrades that remove whole stacks instead of just one. There have been a few more direct changes to the game- the change to cloaking early on, and finally limiting Borg comes to mind. The most innovative rule added to the game is Time Tokens, which is a good game mechanic from another system (D&D Attack Wing), but it seems to be inconsistently implemented in STAW. I figured once it hit, all weapons and upgrades would be converting over to it, but that hasn't happened. Cards that should be a time token are instead "discard this card and a token next to a ship..." Secondary weapons, already the poor, red headed step children of STAW get this great new rules mechanic that turns out to be actually worse then the current mechanic in most situations. Sure, you can spend points on making them work better, but you can do the same with the old disable rules as well.

The release of this ship and a couple other ships in the last few waves has been a giant "Huh?". A science vessel without a [scan] action, but special benefits when it has a [scan] token is just an example of this... poor design. Another company does similar things- Privateer Press and Warmachine/Hordes. They will release a model with very odd or specific wording, and the model might be sub-par at release. A while later, a new model comes out with a new ability that suddenly catapults the lackluster model to the fore front and it becomes a "Must Take Model X with model Y". Privateer Press has a long development and play test cycle. Wizkids does not seem to have a very long or deep development cycle for it's ships. Nor have we seen anything to make a "bad ship" better later on besides limited upgrades that can apply to all ships.

It's already been mentioned, but X-wing is doing a fantastic job with it's rules. The new starter set slipped in a new rule book and critical damage deck without changing the edition of the game. They have specifically released 0 pt upgrade cards that reduce the cost of ships to bring them more in line with the game, or upgrade cards to enhance game play.

Wizkids should really be considering a new edition to this game; it's popular enough and it's obviously making them money, so why not go back to the drawing board, tweak the rules, and come out with a new edition? And invest in a development group that has a plan and is involved in WORF- not just some guy that occasionally answers questions whose main job is Hero Clicks (and seems to have no idea how to play STAW). This new edition could be accompanied by "Faction Deck Packs" that have new artwork, rules, and point costs for each faction. Allow the players to keep their ships, but make them buy the new cards/rule book. And all the ships released from that point on are for the new edition.

That card pack idea is brilliant! Release faction pure card packs with new cards, or even reprints of old cards (Tactical Stations?), stuff that was only released as OP even cards, maybe even resources that are more long lasting (or even just the current OP stuff (or the old stuff as new upgrades, like Chief Engineer as a Crewman, or Emergency force fields as a tech). Hell, they could release the Unique ships for the equal hull types (like the Stargazer after the Hathaway releases, or the Krayton as a card for the D'Kora).

It would be fairly cheap to produce, and they could sell a pack of 10 cards for 10 bucks easy. It is brilliance!

 Tamwulf wrote:
I think we are starting to see the unbearable weight of Star Trek Attack Wing, and it won't be too long before it breaks.

I can agree with that. In all reality if WK was going to use FFG rules this should have been Armada based. I'd bet money FFG suggested they wait and use that system but they went for the quick money.

similar to XWing release could have been:

Galaxy Class Federation Starship
Unique Galaxy Class Titles
Enterprise D
Venture
Yamato

Federation ship only cards
Jean Luc Picard
William Riker (as a crew)
Worf
La Forge
Bev Crusher
Data
Wesley Crusher

Basic non-unique cards
Photonic Torpedo
Science Station (scanning or something)
Engineering Team
......etc

this type of release make more sense than the way WK is doing business

As of right now I've been backing out of this game even more, I've been selling everything but Klingons and one other faction, which I cant decide between Romulan or Federation at the moment

I WANT a star trek Armada-style game. if anything, I think it fits better with the theme than playing Star Wars that way does... But one company has the System license, the other the franchise.

 Tamwulf wrote:
I think we are starting to see the unbearable weight of Star Trek Attack Wing, and it won't be too long before it breaks. As a "small" game with only a few waves (less then 10), each ship was pretty unique and each card was "good" different. As the waves stack up, we are seeing less and less innovation and more overlap through abilities.

The real problem is the weight doesn't have to be unbearable. WK can keep up the release schedule they have and still have a balanced game, it's just that they are not trying at all to do that. Take the Halik release for instance. The High Yield Charges card would have been a great opportunity to release an equivalent to Type 8 Phasers that is available retail. Lots of people, even those who don't play Kazon would have bought a bunch of these if that had been the case.

Surat, the captain, there is NO reason why he should cost an Action on top or either paying for a tech or taking an Aux. I am perfectly fine with Taking the Aux or Paying for the Tech, personally I think it is thematic for the Kazon, but the Action is bull The feds have Picard, Spock, and Janeway who can double down. Allowing Surat to take a scan for as a free action in return for taking an Aux or PAYING MORE ING POINTS for a tech would not have broken the game.

The basic rules are fine, WK just needs to stop the BS of these cards that have double, and triple penalties when their are other cards that can do the same thing if not better for just their base cost.

There is just no reason why we have to have releases like this the Talvath, and Rotarran at the same time the Hathaway and Delta Flyer come out.

I have no problem with anything that came out in the Flyer or Hathaway it shows that WK can make good upgrades, but don't give use these at the same time as the Halik, Talvath, and Rotarran.




I can understand the appeal to card packs, but personally I don't like it. It sounds good, but I for one have over 200 ships, I don't wan to spend more money to play them in a STAW 2.0. I'm sure there are lots of people in the same boat as me.

Honestly what I would like to see is a list of "penalties" that are the cost to perform a card text (such as Action, Disable, No Attack, and Aux). They could errata existing cards so that if any of these penalties are on a card you can select one of them to perform the ability. So you could say use Miles O'Brien for just an actoin or just a disable. I think this would solve a lot of issues and still let people use their existing cards and no one has to spend more $$. It could also help a lot of currently unused cards find a way back in the game



Sorry if I come off as a little heated. I just had to go back into my office at 3am to correct someone elses screw up burdens of management.

The idea of new packs of cards for STAW 2.0 is very appealing to me. Just perused my Federation collection, and not counting the 0 point captains, I have 234 unique cards? I also don't have all the ships, so let's just say it's 250 unique cards. The Feds are the largest faction by far, with probably the Dominion being #2, then Romulan, Klingon, and then it just piddles all the way down to Species 8472? Anyways...

They could really pare that card count down by only providing say, 10 Generic Captains, and maybe 10 generic secondary weapons (Photon Torps- I have at least doubles of all the non-unique Photon Torps). Then this would be an excellent opportunity to clean up crew- How many Worf's, Data's, Geordi's, and Riker's do we really need?

Let's say Whizkids pares that down to about 225 cards. That's still a fat pack of cards, so why not take the opportunity to split it up into smaller card packs? You could have "Legacy" with NX, Enterprise, Aerie, etc. Then "Modern" with the newer ships. Or break it up by shows, or any of a whole bunch of combo's to get the pack size down to say, 50 cards. I'd pay $20 for the "upgrade booster decks" for STAW 2.0. That would be what, about $100 for all the cards? Might be a little steep. Magic players pay about $5 for 16 cards, so a better price point would be $15 for 50 cards?

The faction decks could be split Dominion, Romulans, Klingon, Independent, Mirror Universe, Borg, and "all others"- can't think of any other "big factions"- maybe Vulcan?

I envision a player basically throwing out all the old cards, but keeping the ships, bases, maneuver dials, movement templates, and dice. The idea is not to have to reprint the card stock stuff, as that could get a bit pricey. Now, if a ship does get changed (such as a Galaxay class getting a 180 or 270 arc like it had in the show), they would have to reprint the card stock ship base and tokens.

/Sigh. The more I look at STAW 2.0, the more I realize that there is just no easy way to be able to keep your old stuff without having to purchase a STAW 2.0 ship pack. Wizkids could come out with conversion packs for each ship- a pack with cards, card stock and tokens but no ship. The problem is, you paid $15 for the first ship, now you are paying what, $5? $10? to update that ship to STAW 2.0, meaning you just paid $20-$25 for that ship, or I just pay $15 for a new STAW 2.0 ship. Or Whizkids could just slip in an extra card stock ship base for each new STAW 2.0 pack forcing you to buy more ships.

When Privateer Press went from Warmachine 1.0 to 2.0, they basically sold Faction Decks with cards for all the models in the game up to that point. You got to keep your old models and continue to use them, but you needed the new faction deck. I think that would be the way to go for STAW 2.0. The tricky part is if they change the ships- that necessitates new card stock and tokens, which would significantly drive up the prices.

Ah well. If I was in charge of STAW and given free reign...

I was thinking that the card packs would be a way for the casual player to get OP cards, and for the competitive player to get duplicates of their existing cards. I hadn't intended for the idea to create a 2.0 system.

More of a "Why by twelve USS HOODS for 40 bucks a pop off ebay when you can by 6 card boosters and get all those type 8 phaser arrays!" than a "Replace all the cards with this stuff instead."

Yeah, WK has to be very careful - I've played their old games and each time the 2.0 version killed interest in the game. Primarily because everyone got ticked all their old stuff was no longer usable.

However, that was all cliks stuff, where the rules were part of the figure's base. They might have more success if they just release upgrade card packs for the old minis, and use "better" cards/rules for upcoming models, but I reiterate it is somewhat of a deadly gamble.

I would be ok with them releasing upgrade packs as long as they make any current ships/cards unusable. WK could make a tone of money if they make the Hood pack available for retail. People would by 4 or 5 of them. Upgrade packs are fine, just don't make it so people have to buy them like Privateer Press did.


What would be better is if they just put usable upgrades in the packs they are releasing. FF does a good job at releasing upgrades in packs to help ships that are not performing well. WK is completely off the farm when it comes to this. WK does one of 3 things,

1) they release something that is cross faction or a temporary resource, (fleet captain, Admiral Forrest)

2) they release an upgrade in a limited pack that every one scrambles for, (Hood, Lakota)

3) they come out with something that is not exactly what we need, and it is soo over priced you may never take it. (Talvath & Scorpions)



There needs to be more balance between the upgrades release and not just the Fanboys working on the Federation and the interns working on everything else.

Hell, paying attention to what each faction needs to be on par is all they really need: Something to improve action economy for the Romulans, something to improve action economy and survivability for Klingons, etc.

I just picked up wave 20 and I do have to give WK credit the Hathaway and Halik models look amazing I'll try and post some comparison pics later tomorrow.

It's great that the quality of the ship models are getting better and better. I kinda hope they go back and re-release some of the older ships.

They might re-print them, since some of them are sold out in places.

So I looked back over the Halik raider's cards... The Unremarkable species upgrade is actually kind of great if you are facing a borg heavy meta, definitely worth 3-4 points. 5 is a lot, especially in competitive play when the game is moving away from a borg dominated field.

Had this upgrade come out 6-7 months ago, before the Borg nerf... it would have been an excellent card.

 Corpsman913 wrote:
So I looked back over the Halik raider's cards... The Unremarkable species upgrade is actually kind of great if you are facing a borg heavy meta, definitely worth 3-4 points. 5 is a lot, especially in competitive play when the game is moving away from a borg dominated field.

Had this upgrade come out 6-7 months ago, before the Borg nerf... it would have been an excellent card.

I agree, but since the Great Borg Nerf and the "suggested tournament format" rules, the Borg have become all but non-existent in my area. There is still a guy that runs a bunch of Sugar Cubes (Scout Cubes), but he loses, like, a LOT especially when everyone is bringing Cloaked Mines and/or cloaked ships.

Unremarkable Species would have been an outstanding card before the Borg Nerf. Now? Way too situational and will probably only be taken when you know your opponent takes a Borg fleet.

Agreed.

Don't mock the Sugar Cubes! I took second in two different tournaments running Borg swarm... admittedly pre-nerf, but still... staring down the barrel of 4 scout cubes and a 30 point blind is scary... lol

Hey sorry it took a while to post this but here is the pics of the new Hathaway and Halik.



The Hathaway looks great the pic doesn't do it justice. You can see the detail work much better, personally I think it is tied with the Thunderchild for best fed ship yet.




The Halik looks pretty good too. The details of the panels come out much better with this paint sceme. It's a shame I already have a bunch of the Nistrim, and most of the Halik pack sucks. It it had some better cards I would have bought more of these.