Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

People always say that tau are so weak in melee, i dont know how many models ive taken out in melee with stealth suits and crisis suits. Maybe its just lucky rolls, but maybe not

Makumba wrote:
Any tactics for armies that don't have access to scream and that can't melee?

Change your paradigm. Trying to outshoot an army who itself has no melee of Psyker phase is probably not a winning idea. You can try it, but... Every army has its speciality and this is theirs: hunting you down.

But if you're unwilling to change your paradigm, here's two more ideas:

1. Null Deployment

2. Barrages.

In null deployment you'd basically just hide some Barrage wielding stuff and start bombing from opposing corners and force him to come out and play. One thing about shooting: it is useless without an actual target. So give him none for as long as possible, game wise which preserves your strength and then use the strength of your fortitude to weather him for a turn or two to take objectives at games end. Kinda like how Tyranids play most successfully.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
People always say that tau are so weak in melee, i dont know how many models ive taken out in melee with stealth suits and crisis suits. Maybe its just lucky rolls, but maybe not

Lots goes into that. Matchups and whatnot. They just are very prone to bad dice because they throw a lot fewer. STR 5 suits is cool (4 on Stealth) so can they do a little rumbling? Sure. But nothing that even resembles a mediocre melee unit is going to struggle. Low end stuff they can take. Whittled mini units they can take. But ten Tactical Marines are gonna shred them if the power axe doesnt. And Tactical marines are no marvel in close combat.

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
People always say that tau are so weak in melee, i dont know how many models ive taken out in melee with stealth suits and crisis suits. Maybe its just lucky rolls, but maybe not

No, I can vouch for this - Tau can be pretty nasty in melee.

It's not usually a problem if you get a dedicated melee unit into combat with them, or even a decent all-rounder unit.

The problems come when your units get severely depleted on the way in. That's usually when you realise that Tau aren't pushovers in combat.

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
People always say that tau are so weak in melee, i dont know how many models ive taken out in melee with stealth suits and crisis suits. Maybe its just lucky rolls, but maybe not

Have to agree with this as well, I have beat down an untold number of foes with my Crisis Suits in combat. I think some of the best highlights being when I charged and took out bunch of Wraithguard, another when I surprised my Tyranid Opponent and charged and took the last two wounds off of his Carnifex! I have found it to be a really great tactic, especially against those players who just asume we are only going to shoot and scoot, nice little surprise to have up our sleeve. This also pertains to Fire Warriors or Breachers with EMP Grenades.

Nonsense to hate Tau...

Not even big changes and Stealth teams were not played at all for 3 editions now. I was the only player that used them once and again. With Ghostkeel formation they will see tables again. A good thing.
Nothing wrong with other formations, Stormsurge or Breachers either.

The only reason Tau do well is because the meta has become cover-saves and ways to get good ones, re-roll them etc. Furthermore many lists of the current meta are, like always, 1-trick ponies.
And when you build your army around that, i don't mind that you lose because of that.

My Tau are drone-themed and infantry-themed since Tau exist (lots of drones and kroot as theme with a few different type suits as support). Never good according the current meta, but always did quite well.

But I Always build my armies infantry based and with flexibility in mind.
Never the thing to do according "the current meta" but i Always do above average in tournaments and win some.

And finally i am glad that there FINALLY is an army that will be something to think about for "competitive" Eldar players.

Don't hate Tau... hate "ignores cover"

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Don't hate Tau... hate "ignores cover"

They are practically synonymous.

Sunstripe wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Don't hate Tau... hate "ignores cover"

They are practically synonymous.

Yet... Not. The REAL problem is how many things get a "cover save generator" which hs become a crutch instead of the situational "cool thing" it was sort of meant to be. Now Cover saves have become a major thing with armies and suddenly they all feel entitled to some way to get them and the escalation on it is pretty marked.

So ignores cover was the natural nerf to an out of control proliferation of that crutch and it takes resources for the Tau to do it. So i mean its not like its free. i think people just feel too entitled when its hard to even justify how often cover saves are generated!

Depends on the platform of Ignore Cover. It starts to become a problem when you can put it on AP2/3 with good range en mass. Against short range including Templates (yes, the Wraithguard too, it's the WWP/Raider that tips them over the edge) it's fine.

I prefer Infinity's way of dealing with cover. Modifying the to hit roll - then again a D20 allows for this.

 Jancoran wrote:

Sunstripe wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Don't hate Tau... hate "ignores cover"

They are practically synonymous.

Yet... Not. The REAL problem is how many things get a "cover save generator" which hs become a crutch instead of the situational "cool thing" it was sort of meant to be. Now Cover saves have become a major thing with armies and suddenly they all feel entitled to some way to get them and the escalation on it is pretty marked.

So ignores cover was the natural nerf to an out of control proliferation of that crutch and it takes resources for the Tau to do it. So i mean its not like its free. i think people just feel too entitled when its hard to even justify how often cover saves are generated!

Considering how many armies rely on cover to get decent saves against shooting, I disagree. Sure, Jink makes skimmers very powerful, but not every skimmer is a powerful or suvivable as the Wave Serpent. Bike armies and FMCs are definitely powerful and survivable because of Jink, but at the same time those units often had decent armour saves as well; jink was a defense agianst high-strenght low-AP shooting and the AP2 spam that has become prevalent. Jink also has the downside of forcing snapshots.

Considering how much of the rulebook is taken up by rules for terrain, how models interact with terrain, and what kind of cover terrain provides, cover saves are very important in 40k. If you are playing smartly on a board with enough terrain, almost every unit should potentially have some sort of cover save. The ability for Tau to easily ignore cover is a big problem for the very reason that it nullifies major parts of how armies move and play on the tabletop.

Played again against Taucurion with my Harlequins, a similar build but with the new Stormsurge thrown in alongside the fancy stealth cadre dealie.

First off, if I'd brought DE I would have been totally mulched. The one turn invuln saves and the one unit of Howling Banshees pulled MVP for sure followed by the insane power of a -4 LD bubble paired with psychic shriek deep striking in against those big suits.

I think the Taucurion is a lot like the Eldar one, I.e. Actually well constructed in that it doesn't let them spam what they really want to spam and forces them to take suboptimal choices for the best benefits.

I have a simple solution for anyone trying to deal with the new Tau lists: Melee and psychic powers. Invisibility will make your big melee threat hard to hurt even for the new formation.

Phychic scream will RAPE most Tau units, stealth suits are Ld 8 at best, and ignores their cover and armor, and noone takes shields on them, so a decent psychic scream will punch a hole in those suits. Ghostkeel is Ld9 so not as effective, but still not bad. If you get the power that drops Ld down focus it on the ghostkeels with psychic shriek, and you've got a pretty decent chance at hurting them.

Melee; you need stuff that's fast, and has high strength, and AP2/3. Preferably on a model that doesn't mind taking a couple str6 ap2 hits, or that hits at Init3 or better. Hell, a power sword sargeant marine will do pretty decent against this thing, averaging a wound probably. What you want to fight Tau is what you want against most things, elite bikers with Pfists/claws. TWC if you're Space Wolves, bikers with warboss biker and nob with Pklaw for orks. Space marine captain on bike, preferably with a biker command squad, but leading regular bikers is fine. The ghostkeel is pretty short range, you should be able to make up the distance pretty fast with 12" moves. Necrons take wraiths, those invul saves will serve you well. Eldar can take... Pretty much anything. A wraithknight will absorb all the tau firepower and probably live, just give it the D-sword and it will be real damn tough with 2 5+ rolls, and T8. They can also mass psyker powers and just spam psychic scream and kill all the cover camping cowards.

Perfect timing on grav weapons, plasma, or even just str5 spam shots will bring down a ghostkeel pretty quick, heck if its within 12" you don't even need the perfect timing.

Markerlight sources are usually REALLY flimsy. The only real exception is the skyray, regardless, focus down the markerlights HARD. They are what makes Tau deadly. Without that boost to BS and ignoring cover Tau isn't as strong. Sure, 3 units focus fire for BS4 big whoop.

I love the DE players in this thread complaining. DE is a weak army, any of the power-builds will stomp it. Eldar jetbike spam? Check. Space marine parking lot? Check. A dark eldar player actually came second in the last tourny at my FLGS. He just went MSU tons of raiders and minimum sized squads. First was a Ravenwing list that spammed black knights and flyers. Another list that beats dark eldar.

Overall I like the new Tau. It fits with what we had before, the new formation doesn't even make us the overwatch kings. Dark angels and especially Ravenwing do it better still, it's the focused fire and multiple units using the same markerlights that's actually the biggest part of the formation. It allows us to REALLY put the hurt on your big expensive models and make em go BOOM real fast.

Don't hate on players though, hate the game. If you don't like all the power creep, ban formations. CAD play is still pretty balanced across the board excluding Eldar and their BS str6 spam and Dspam. This also helps older codexes keep up better, although soon we'll all have formations.

TL;DR, take fast, tough melee units, and lots of psychic powers(especially telepathy, telepathy is awesome.) and you shouldn't have problems against Tau.

Grey Knights. Tau players literally cry tears of fear when it comes to them. Their guns won't work, their armor won't work, their special rules won't work, and they'll be forced to see that they started from the bottom, and are still there. Darn tau players and their multiple attempts at cheating after their new dex dropped.. And it hasn't even been a week!

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Grey Knights. Tau players literally cry tears of fear when it comes to them. Their guns won't work, their armor won't work, their special rules won't work, and they'll be forced to see that they started from the bottom, and are still there. Darn tau players and their multiple attempts at cheating after their new dex dropped.. And it hasn't even been a week!

I see you are going into every Tau thread and acting childish lol.

Lets see here, AP2 Large blasts from riptides and stormsurges don't work against basically the entire Grey Knight army?

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Grey Knights. Tau players literally cry tears of fear when it comes to them. Their guns won't work, their armor won't work, their special rules won't work, and they'll be forced to see that they started from the bottom, and are still there. Darn tau players and their multiple attempts at cheating after their new dex dropped.. And it hasn't even been a week!

I see you are going into every Tau thread and acting childish lol.

Lets see here, AP2 Large blasts from riptides and stormsurges don't work against basically the entire Grey Knight army?

Not really with good separation n sanctuary... Or an av14 box

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Grey Knights. Tau players literally cry tears of fear when it comes to them. Their guns won't work, their armor won't work, their special rules won't work, and they'll be forced to see that they started from the bottom, and are still there. Darn tau players and their multiple attempts at cheating after their new dex dropped.. And it hasn't even been a week!

I see you are going into every Tau thread and acting childish lol.

Lets see here, AP2 Large blasts from riptides and stormsurges don't work against basically the entire Grey Knight army?

Not really with good separation n sanctuary... Or an av14 box

XV 109 Y'vahrah. Will tear AV 14 to shreds. They can almost tears IK to shreds as well but usually need a little help to get the job done.

I'm confused. Are we boycotting tau or not?

 Gamgee wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Grey Knights. Tau players literally cry tears of fear when it comes to them. Their guns won't work, their armor won't work, their special rules won't work, and they'll be forced to see that they started from the bottom, and are still there. Darn tau players and their multiple attempts at cheating after their new dex dropped.. And it hasn't even been a week!

I see you are going into every Tau thread and acting childish lol.

Lets see here, AP2 Large blasts from riptides and stormsurges don't work against basically the entire Grey Knight army?

Not really with good separation n sanctuary... Or an av14 box

XV 109 Y'vahrah. Will tear AV 14 to shreds. They can almost tears IK to shreds as well but usually need a little help to get the job done.

I promise you, tau cry to grey Knights. Among other things. Sorry to disappoint.

And we are boycotting tau

Torga_DW wrote:I'm confused. Are we boycotting tau or not?

If you boycott Tau, out of consistency you must therefore boycott Eldar, Space Marines, Necrons, AdMech/Skitarii, Chaos Daemons, and Tyranids.

Basically you're boycotting every book released after Necrons (except Harlequins) plus Daemons and codex: Flyrants. That doesn't leave you with much left to play against...

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Torga_DW wrote:I'm confused. Are we boycotting tau or not?

If you boycott Tau, out of consistency you must therefore boycott Eldar, Space Marines, Necrons, AdMech/Skitarii, Chaos Daemons, and Tyranids.

Basically you're boycotting every book released after Necrons (except Harlequins) plus Daemons and codex: Flyrants. That doesn't leave you with much left to play against...

What's forcing me to boycott those? I play admech and skitarii. Imperial Knights grey Knights Tempestus and inquisition as well. We boycott tau, and nerf crons and eldar.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Grey Knights. Tau players literally cry tears of fear when it comes to them. Their guns won't work, their armor won't work, their special rules won't work, and they'll be forced to see that they started from the bottom, and are still there. Darn tau players and their multiple attempts at cheating after their new dex dropped.. And it hasn't even been a week!

I see you are going into every Tau thread and acting childish lol.

Lets see here, AP2 Large blasts from riptides and stormsurges don't work against basically the entire Grey Knight army?

Not really with good separation n sanctuary... Or an av14 box

XV 109 Y'vahrah. Will tear AV 14 to shreds. They can almost tears IK to shreds as well but usually need a little help to get the job done.

I promise you, tau cry to grey Knights. Among other things. Sorry to disappoint.

And we are boycotting tau

2 units of termies charged my farsight, brightsword and o'vesa. The tears that came out of my face was of joy because they got wiped out. It took 2 termies squads and 2 dreadknights to kill this team.

bleak wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Grey Knights. Tau players literally cry tears of fear when it comes to them. Their guns won't work, their armor won't work, their special rules won't work, and they'll be forced to see that they started from the bottom, and are still there. Darn tau players and their multiple attempts at cheating after their new dex dropped.. And it hasn't even been a week!

I see you are going into every Tau thread and acting childish lol.

Lets see here, AP2 Large blasts from riptides and stormsurges don't work against basically the entire Grey Knight army?

Not really with good separation n sanctuary... Or an av14 box

XV 109 Y'vahrah. Will tear AV 14 to shreds. They can almost tears IK to shreds as well but usually need a little help to get the job done.

I promise you, tau cry to grey Knights. Among other things. Sorry to disappoint.

And we are boycotting tau

2 units of termies charged my farsight, brightsword and o'vesa. The tears that came out of my face was of joy because they got wiped out. It took 2 termies squads and 2 dreadknights to kill this team.

Ooh that's those dice gods playing tricks. We are taking math hammer here my good boy. Let's leave fairy tales at home please

Wait I don't get it, first you say tau are cheese therefore you are boycotting it, and now you said grey knights own tau. So if that is the case, shouldn't we boycott grey knights as well? And since marines codex is better than grey knights now we should boycott that as well.

 Torga_DW wrote:
I'm confused. Are we boycotting tau or not?

No.

 Jancoran wrote:

Sunstripe wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Don't hate Tau... hate "ignores cover"

They are practically synonymous.

Yet... Not. The REAL problem is how many things get a "cover save generator" which hs become a crutch instead of the situational "cool thing" it was sort of meant to be. Now Cover saves have become a major thing with armies and suddenly they all feel entitled to some way to get them and the escalation on it is pretty marked.

So ignores cover was the natural nerf to an out of control proliferation of that crutch and it takes resources for the Tau to do it. So i mean its not like its free. i think people just feel too entitled when its hard to even justify how often cover saves are generated!

Ah but it is with the Stealth formation, also +1 BS, and I am loving it. Having bs4 stealth suits back is so nice. I was so mad when they took away the +1BS wargear option from back in the day. Mostly used it on stealth suits, so for me, this formation is just awesomeness as xv25's become so viable.

 Wolfnid420 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Sunstripe wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Don't hate Tau... hate "ignores cover"

They are practically synonymous.

Yet... Not. The REAL problem is how many things get a "cover save generator" which hs become a crutch instead of the situational "cool thing" it was sort of meant to be. Now Cover saves have become a major thing with armies and suddenly they all feel entitled to some way to get them and the escalation on it is pretty marked.

So ignores cover was the natural nerf to an out of control proliferation of that crutch and it takes resources for the Tau to do it. So i mean its not like its free. i think people just feel too entitled when its hard to even justify how often cover saves are generated!

Ah but it is with the Stealth formation, also +1 BS, and I am loving it. Having bs4 stealth suits back is so nice. I was so mad when they took away the +1BS wargear option from back in the day. Mostly used it on stealth suits, so for me, this formation is just awesomeness as xv25's become so viable.

They actually have +2 BS if in a hunter cadre and the optimized stealth cadre all shoot at one target. Since three units firing at one get +1 BS and being part of the stealth cadre gets them +1 as well. So 4-5 BS ignoring cover and all hits counting as rear armor.

Gamgee wrote:

 Wolfnid420 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Sunstripe wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Don't hate Tau... hate "ignores cover"

They are practically synonymous.

Yet... Not. The REAL problem is how many things get a "cover save generator" which hs become a crutch instead of the situational "cool thing" it was sort of meant to be. Now Cover saves have become a major thing with armies and suddenly they all feel entitled to some way to get them and the escalation on it is pretty marked.

So ignores cover was the natural nerf to an out of control proliferation of that crutch and it takes resources for the Tau to do it. So i mean its not like its free. i think people just feel too entitled when its hard to even justify how often cover saves are generated!

Ah but it is with the Stealth formation, also +1 BS, and I am loving it. Having bs4 stealth suits back is so nice. I was so mad when they took away the +1BS wargear option from back in the day. Mostly used it on stealth suits, so for me, this formation is just awesomeness as xv25's become so viable.

They actually have +2 BS if in a hunter cadre and the optimized stealth cadre all shoot at one target. Since three units firing at one get +1 BS and being part of the stealth cadre gets them +1 as well. So 4-5 BS ignoring cover and all hits counting as rear armor.

I really can't afford a ghostkeel, but you make such a good point!

See, i dont like the big formation and unless im trying to play like HUUUGE battles Im really unlikely to run it. IT IS nice for sure just not for me as i dont ever run buffmander and i dont end up having to fire too many of the same squads at one thing to do the damage i want so for me i feel the BS bonus would be more rare than common or necessary.

Also, really love the ghostkeel, haven't bought the model, played with a counts as, still so much fun and awesomeness, especially being a part of the formation

 Wolfnid420 wrote:


Ah but it is with the Stealth formation, also +1 BS, and I am loving it. Having bs4 stealth suits back is so nice. I was so mad when they took away the +1BS wargear option from back in the day. Mostly used it on stealth suits, so for me, this formation is just awesomeness as xv25's become so viable.

I own 24 stealthuits. So the entire situation is pleasing to me regardless.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Wolfnid420 wrote:


Ah but it is with the Stealth formation, also +1 BS, and I am loving it. Having bs4 stealth suits back is so nice. I was so mad when they took away the +1BS wargear option from back in the day. Mostly used it on stealth suits, so for me, this formation is just awesomeness as xv25's become so viable.

I own 24 stealthuits. So the entire situation is pleasing to me regardless.

'AT a BOY!!! lol ive never tried to run more than 12, especially since they took away their main wargear option IMO (they often in weird places away from markerlight help and I enjoyed a better chance for the fusion to land).