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Also remember that you cant combine fire with dark strider. Hes not part of the contingent

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
Also remember that you cant combine fire with dark strider. Hes not part of the contingent

You just need to join him to a HCont unit.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
I play orks. Love them, always have always will.

Saying that I'm at a loss on how to face tau.

Orks lack access to invisible or psychic shriek or other strong psychic powers.

The green tide is in bad shape vs tau. The combined fire with Darkstrider puts us at Toughness 3 from what I hear. So S6+ ignores our fnp. We are not going to get cover. So with 4 marker lights hits the tau army can combine fire our 1 large unit to ignore cover , +2 BS and -1 Toughness.

So I'm curious what an army like orks, lacking the suggested tools is suppose to do.

The get in cc only works if you can get their. Orks rely on their jink / cover since they have little to no armor. The 5++ kff can't cover enough or strong enough to protect enough models long enough to see combat.

Suggestions ?

MSU. This will force the Tau player to spread his fire. The big unit of 100 models are what Hunter Contingent was born to kill, as Smashfucker and his retinue, Seerstar... MSU is a better way to deal with Tau

Don't listen to him, i tried the green tide and it doesnt last longer...

Actually, the best unit you can make is a bikestar with a warboss, painboy and big mek with mega kustom field so you get a 4+ invu and FNP, which is scary for those tau...

Other then that? Nothing man, we tried out pretty much every good lists known and its a joke...

Its actually funny because tau's players are all the same lol They keep saying : Make this perfect list to counter mine and you might have a chance ! What none of them realize is that if we make THAT list, we will get crush versus any other lists in a tournement which isnt the case for Tau.... I will say it one more time, you are NOT supposed to build a list for ONLY 1 opponent.

Give it a couples months, Tau will get as much hate as eldars

alex0911 wrote:


Don't listen to him, i tried the green tide and it doesnt last longer...

Actually, the best unit you can make is a bikestar with a warboss, painboy and big mek with mega kustom field so you get a 4+ invu and FNP, which is scary for those tau...

Other then that? Nothing man, we tried out pretty much every good lists known and its a joke...

Its actually funny because tau's players are all the same lol They keep saying : Make this perfect list to counter mine and you might have a chance ! What none of them realize is that if we make THAT list, we will get crush versus any other lists in a tournement which isnt the case for Tau.... I will say it one more time, you are NOT supposed to build a list for ONLY 1 opponent.

Give it a couples months, Tau will get as much hate as eldars

For everyone saying that MSU is a good counter to the Buffmander + Hunter Contingent combo: you do realize that Multitrackers and Target Locks are a thing? Combined fire let the army shoot as one unit at one target, and multi-trackers let the entire army get a round of normal shooting. Split Fire from the Combined Fire keeps the special rules, so you have no reason not to load up on Target Locks and get the bonuses against virtually every target in the opponent's army.

Null Deployment doesn't work because of Interceptor. the only way to beat the Buffmander+Hunter Contingent is to alpha strike hard enough and pray to the dice gods that it works. Of course, this is all dependent on going first. If Tau goes first, you might as well concede.

This is why the Buffmander+Hunter contingent combo is broken. There is no reliable way to counter it. The only lists that stand a chance are Gladius due to overwhelming numbers of bodies, Skyhammer to force melee and pinning, and some Eldar lists. Everyone else is completely screwed over.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

alex0911 wrote:


Don't listen to him, i tried the green tide and it doesnt last longer...

Actually, the best unit you can make is a bikestar with a warboss, painboy and big mek with mega kustom field so you get a 4+ invu and FNP, which is scary for those tau...

Other then that? Nothing man, we tried out pretty much every good lists known and its a joke...

Its actually funny because tau's players are all the same lol They keep saying : Make this perfect list to counter mine and you might have a chance ! What none of them realize is that if we make THAT list, we will get crush versus any other lists in a tournement which isnt the case for Tau.... I will say it one more time, you are NOT supposed to build a list for ONLY 1 opponent.

Give it a couples months, Tau will get as much hate as eldars

For everyone saying that MSU is a good counter to the Buffmander + Hunter Contingent combo: you do realize that Multitrackers and Target Locks are a thing? Combined fire let the army shoot as one unit at one target, and multi-trackers let the entire army get a round of normal shooting. Split Fire from the Combined Fire keeps the special rules, so you have no reason not to load up on Target Locks and get the bonuses against virtually every target in the opponent's army.

Null Deployment doesn't work because of Interceptor. the only way to beat the Buffmander+Hunter Contingent is to alpha strike hard enough and pray to the dice gods that it works. Of course, this is all dependent on going first. If Tau goes first, you might as well concede.

This is why the Buffmander+Hunter contingent combo is broken. There is no reliable way to counter it. The only lists that stand a chance are Gladius due to overwhelming numbers of bodies, Skyhammer to force melee and pinning, and some Eldar lists. Everyone else is completely screwed over.

ofc but you can have a lot of fire power and pretty much everything is insta kill so it ignores the FNP. Moreover, you will ignore the cover of my big green squad and boys in cc arent that great vs MC since they wound on six's and they have no ap except 1 nob... Plus, if you are smart, you will send me a squad that you will literally sacrifice so the rest of your army can run away ( 2d6 is faster then 6'' move ). The chase can last really long and the longer it takes to reach you, the fewer gets the chance to charge you... Moreover, boys dont ignore cover so they can be really slow... Keep your opinion but we already did try to match up and its no good for orks.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
Also remember that you cant combine fire with dark strider. Hes not part of the contingent

You just need to join him to a HCont unit.

haha im dumb

Wolfnid420 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
Also remember that you cant combine fire with dark strider. Hes not part of the contingent

You just need to join him to a HCont unit.

haha im dumb

No you're not. After playing and trying out the new tau, it is ALOT harder than what people think. Coordinating fire is good and all but when you are faced with tons of powerful target and a good opponent, its still more taxing for you compared to the person you're playing with. And throughout the game you will realise how many things you can forget.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
This is why the Buffmander+Hunter contingent combo is broken. There is no reliable way to counter it. The only lists that stand a chance are Gladius due to overwhelming numbers of bodies, Skyhammer to force melee and pinning, and some Eldar lists. Everyone else is completely screwed over.

So Tau hunter contingent is OP because it gets beaten by all other 7.5 OP formations?

We have seen batreps of both Dark Angels and Necrons beating this totally overpowered Tau formation.

I do not follow your logic at all.

I've seen nothing but battle reports of Tau getting their gak kicked in by everything including Tyranids. That's with the nerfed version of the rule the ITC has. Granted they are all newb Tau players and/or they consider this mandatory footage until they go back to their races they like. Tau players are still trying to find the cheese in the new dex. I'm a little annoyed I haven't seen a bat rep with a winning Tau player yet. A high level player not an average player.

 Gamgee wrote:
I've seen nothing but battle reports of Tau getting their gak kicked in by everything including Tyranids. That's with the nerfed version of the rule the ITC has. Granted they are all newb Tau players and/or they consider this mandatory footage until they go back to their races they like. Tau players are still trying to find the cheese in the new dex. I'm a little annoyed I haven't seen a bat rep with a winning Tau player yet. A high level player not an average player.

http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/New-Tau-vs-Imperium-Warhammer-40k-Battle-Report

if you're not a member you can do the free 7day thing if you want to see tau shine a little

No matter how the Tau now do.

The cover saves are the problem, not the ignore cover.
Tau ignore cover since quite some years and nobody ever compained, because it just was not that big of a deal.
Tau don't need to be changed because other codexes changed, the codex is just fine and the meta will just change again.
And I for one lover it that the meta has to change and that quite some 1-trick-pony armies we see a lot, now have to take Tau into account (because that is the new thing), which makes it more difficult to take every other army into account.

If you all of a sudden fear Tau now, just play something with a lot of infantry with armour save and feel-no-pain. I know that is nothing like the current meta, but that is a good thing IMO.

ORicK wrote:

Tau ignore cover since quite some years and nobody ever compained, because it just was not that big of a deal.

You must have a really bad memory, because the 6th edition Tau codex received a ton of complaints about its Ignoring Cover.

In particular, allowing just 2 markerlights to remove any cover save was regarded as a terrible idea.

ORicK wrote:
The cover saves are the problem, not the ignore cover.

No, both are the problem.

As it stands, it's far too easy to stack cover saves. And, rerollable cover saves are just idiotic.

However, there are also far too many weapons that just ignore cover. This was supposed to be one of the main advantages of flamers and melee - you have to get close to use them, but in return you ignore cover. Now, we have ignores cover weapons that can hit you from the other side of the table. Moreover, outside of flamers, Ignores Cover simply shouldn't exist. What there should be is a rule that modifies cover. So Ignores Cover (2) would reduce a model's cover save by 2 (3+ to 5+, 5+ to no save, etc.).

Instead, cover has been made far too all-or-nothing. You either have a ridiculous cover save, or you have no cover save at all. The game would benefit considerably from more middle ground.

 vipoid wrote:

No, both are the problem.

As it stands, it's far too easy to stack cover saves. And, rerollable cover saves are just idiotic.

However, there are also far too many weapons that just ignore cover. This was supposed to be one of the main advantages of flamers and melee - you have to get close to use them, but in return you ignore cover. Now, we have ignores cover weapons that can hit you from the other side of the table. Moreover, outside of flamers, Ignores Cover simply shouldn't exist. What there should be is a rule that modifies cover. So Ignores Cover (2) would reduce a model's cover save by 2 (3+ to 5+, 5+ to no save, etc.).

Instead, cover has been made far too all-or-nothing. You either have a ridiculous cover save, or you have no cover save at all. The game would benefit considerably from more middle ground.

I have to agree with this completely.

I feel, however, that the cover mechanic in this game is just poorly implemented in general. A Terminator would almost never benefit from cover in most circumstances, yet Tyranids can't live without it. So Ignores Cover means nothing against some armies, but will destroy others while they can't do anything about it.

Eldar can also do it.
In the last incarnation of the codex, I used outflanking Warwalker to make a mess out of the Tau gunline.
Serpents were really hard to deal with, but this could be a bit easier for Tau now.
Scatterbikers can also be a pain with their move, shoot, move action.

Nope, my memory is just fine :-)

There were indeed complaints, there always are complaints.

But it did not matter much in the meta.
In 3rd the toughness 8 models were the problem.
In 4th the skimmers
In 5th the transports
In 6th the flyers
In 7th the formations

The Tau had markerlights before 6th, markerlights were just not that big of a deal, because they did not matter much to
skimmers in 4th or transports in 5th. Furthermore Pathfinders were quite the weakest link in a Tau army.

But in 6th the markerlights suddenly became a bad thing for flyers, bikes and jetbikes, because their jink save was a cover save.

And then the complaining began.

Eldar players did not complain much though. They just stayed in their Wave Serpents at long range.

ORicK wrote:
Nope, my memory is just fine :-)

Apparently not, since it doesn't even extend to your previous posts:

ORicK wrote:
There were indeed complaints, there always are complaints.

ORicK wrote:
Tau ignore cover since quite some years and nobody ever compained

Hahaha... :-)
You got me... my fault indeed.

Yes, people complained about Tau, because people always complain if they field something and something else works (too) well against what they field.
And so there were complaints indeed.

But I play Tau (infantry and drone themed) since they exist, use markerlights since they exist and markerlights never were a big issue.
I think i named the big issues for each edition; the ones that decided the winners of the tournaments.

The first time markerlights were an issue is when the jink save became an army-building theme. And that began in 6th, but 7th really took that to another level.

I play everything but Sisters of Battle and markerlights don't bother me much except when i play a bike army or Harlequin army; especially the last one needs jink re-rolls.

The ignore cover of the long-ranged Thunderfire cannon is a lot worse for most non-3+ armour armies. And you do not need 2 markerlight hits for that one.

I think if markerlights went back to 1 token = -1 to save then that would remove some of the current hate. It allows units which pay for improved cover saves to get to use their rule, forcing more markerlights to be spent to remove their save.

As it stands now, rules which buff cover saves are a tax when the unit which is paying for them gets hit by two or more markerlights as it costs the same amount of tokens to take that 2+ cover save from being in cover with stealth and shrouded as it does to take that 6+ which a 2 point grot got for just lying down on the ground.

My two cents...

I play Guard and 'Nids. My friend play Orks. Another friend plays Tau. We all have large varied collections and could field at least 5000pts+ of our respective armies. None of us lack for tools with our chosen races. Tau consistently wipes the floor with all three of the other armies. So much so that I simply go into each game looking for small victories (killing a riptide, blowing up all Tau vehicles, not being tabled). I have discovered one tool that 'Nids and Guard have in abundance that is an actual threat to Tau.

Tau leadership sucks. They are nearly the only army without reliable ways to shore up their leadership problems. Pinning and Morale checks, when taken in large numbers will ruin Tau. The only times I've won against them are when I can make important units run or duck for cover. 'Nids and Guard have tons of pinning weapons and blasts. Aim for the objective holders and the support units and they have a chance...a small one but still a chance.

As for Orks...I don't play them but after reading my friend's codex, watching games he plays and online...I just don't know. Frankly there is no worse possible matchup for Orks than Tau. They just don't have any answers to what Tau field. Their answers are all in the form of infantry that must be in combat to have any effect, and they simply cannot get there. Their "long-range" shooting is mostly restricted to 24-36" and is on very fragile and easily destroyed units. Lootas are great except for their 6+ save and Ld 7. They die and run easier than units of standard Boyz. Grot artillery is powerful assuming it doesn't run the moment it take casualties due to Ld 5. And that's it. All other Ork shooting must be close range or is unreliable at best.

Tau meanwhile are almost exclusively anti-infantry so much so that Tau players complained about the Stormsurge because it gave them more anti-horde firepower and not anti-titan firepower. "Tau" is synonymous with "anti-infantry". It is what they do best beyond any other army out there.

For what its worth I think these 'horde' armies have a strange advantage against Tau. Orks, 'Nids, and Guard can all field armies that consist of nothing but units that any Tau unit could wipe out in a single shooting phase. In other words, all Tau shooting becomes overkill and is to some extent wasted. Its weird but it makes me feel a little better as the game progresses. But what it comes down to is that 'Nids, Guard, and Orks (and Chaos, yes them too) all need new books with, in some cases, a substantial power jump. But even if that occurs, I don't truly believe any of these armies will ever have a easy time against time. Tau are the ultimate manifestation of everything 'Nids, Orks, and (less so) Guard are weak against.

bhollenb wrote:

For what its worth I think these 'horde' armies have a strange advantage against Tau. Orks, 'Nids, and Guard can all field armies that consist of nothing but units that any Tau unit could wipe out in a single shooting phase. In other words, all Tau shooting becomes overkill and is to some extent wasted. Its weird but it makes me feel a little better as the game progresses. But what it comes down to is that 'Nids, Guard, (and Chaos, yes them too) all need new books with, in some cases, a substantial power jump. But even if that occurs, I don't truly believe any of these armies will ever have a easy time against time. Tau are the ultimate manifestation of everything 'Nids, Orks, and (less so) Guard are weak against.

The moment theses codexes get their 7.5 version, they'll get on par with those who already are. Eldar, Necrons, SM, DA and, in a lesser way, KDK, can't complain about Tau power level.

Sadly, stuff like BA, Orks and Dark Eldar won't get new codexes in this edition, as theirs are already 7e. SW can still hold their own a bit, though.

So yes, your Ork friend will continue to be screwed, especially when your Guard and Nids get their new shiny books.

Unfortunately orks lack the durability to fight tau due to no armor and no cover. We also lack the range power to kill them. The lack of any ranged indore cover ( outside the worthless burna bomber). The new ghosteel with its 2+ cover save is almost unkillable for orks at range. Leaves us with our only option of cc.

Our only delivery system is paper thin trukks and battlewagons. Trukks die to everything that looks at them. Battlewagons are slightly more durable, but with the amount of fusion, not that durable. Opened topped combined with AP1 makes short work of them.

Orks only answer to most things is cc, which is both unreliable and hard to get into if your opponent is mobile or knows how to screen.

Each new codex pushes ork further to the bottom.

Issue isn't the tau codex. But how GW changed their codex design halfway through the edition, screwing over several codex while turning up the power level on others.

The lack of options orks have compared to the codex after them is a bad joke.

 Vector Strike wrote:


The moment theses codexes get their 7.5 version, they'll get on par with those who already are. Eldar, Necrons, SM, DA and, in a lesser way, KDK, can't complain about Tau power level.

I just wanted to mention about DA and their "power level". Yes DA have a new book and formations, but they aren't quite up there with SM. We don't have grav cent stars, no skyhammer, chapter tactics arent as powerful or as flexible, and the formations we do have in common with SM are more restrictive(ie battle company and librarian conclave).

This isn't to say DA aren't strong, they are, just not quite on the level that people lump them in with Eldar, Necrons, and SM.

Really, DA have ONE powerful thing. Rerollable jink. Deathwing isnt competative, and in many ways, greenwing is still SM -1. Which versus some armies can be really powerful. The problem is that jink being a cover save there are more ways around it than most of the other big 7.5 power builds. And this is where I believe DA do have cause for concern about the new tau codex.

They have even more and readily available ignores cover. It is pretty much the hard counter to our strong build. Taking the rerollable jink from ravenwing, and you are now better off playing them as C:SM because then all your librarian conclave can take bikes, you can bring smash fether, and back it up with grav cents and chapter tactics.

DA have ravenwing. The Ravenwing support squadron is one of the most BS things you will EVER see. a 2+ rerollable jink save, or a 4+ cover just for bringing the darkshroud is REALLY strong. Sure, it fails vs Tau, and marines can smack it to death, but good luck assaulting through 3-8(if you take 2 RWSupport squads) assault cannons plus whatever secondary weapons they're packing all fired at BS2.

This game is pretty rock-paper scissors. Just because Tau can(and always have, honestly) wreck ravenwing with ignores cover en masse, doesn't mean it's not strong. I would argue that in many cases ravenwing are much stronger than White scars biker armies. Black Knights are amazingly good, TL plasma is quite strong. And now you even hace grav, and can take nothing but bikes and Grim resolve, overwatching better than Tau Speeders.

 Nalydyn wrote:
DA have ravenwing. The Ravenwing support squadron is one of the most BS things you will EVER see. a 2+ rerollable jink save, or a 4+ cover just for bringing the darkshroud is REALLY strong. Sure, it fails vs Tau, and marines can smack it to death, but good luck assaulting through 3-8(if you take 2 RWSupport squads) assault cannons plus whatever secondary weapons they're packing all fired at BS2.

This game is pretty rock-paper scissors. Just because Tau can(and always have, honestly) wreck ravenwing with ignores cover en masse, doesn't mean it's not strong. I would argue that in many cases ravenwing are much stronger than White scars biker armies. Black Knights are amazingly good, TL plasma is quite strong. And now you even hace grav, and can take nothing but bikes and Grim resolve, overwatching better than Tau Speeders.

Hey, DA deserve their time in the sun.

They do.

I agree actually. I have a ravenwing army I'm building actually, I don't think it's any cheesier than wraithknights or scatbikes, or decurions, but Ravenwing is definitely strong.

I also don't agree with you that deathwing and greenwing aren't good. BS2 overwatching is always awesome, and deathwing knights are probably the best overall melee beatstick in the game. Deathwing terminators are pretty versatile as well, but they do need support, deathraven armies can work. The thing is, spamming out ravenwing black knights and support squadrons is just better.

 krodarklorr wrote:


I feel, however, that the cover mechanic in this game is just poorly implemented in general. A Terminator would almost never benefit from cover in most circumstances, yet Tyranids can't live without it. So Ignores Cover means nothing against some armies, but will destroy others while they can't do anything about it.

I believe this is the point of the mechanic by design.

I'm definitely not saying that DA are weak. I'm just saying they are not as strong as the big 3 (maybe 4 now, I'm not counting tau yet until I play them a some more myself).

Ravenwing are powerful, yes. I have used it, and it is great. But it's power derives from a powerful cover save. And maximizing that covers save comes at the cost of snap firing the next round (barring one formation's first turn turbo boost/free jink). The thing is that it is fairly easy to get ignores cover. The only armies that have problems ignoring it are armies that are doing poorly all around anyways.

What I'm saying is that part of our army build, and a factor of the cost is our rerollable cover save, which is lost on ignore cover heavy armies, especially tau. Without that jink save, that av10 2HP unit of speeders isn't going to stand up to a stiff breeze, and t5 3+ isn't hard to beat.

As to DA vs SM, yes bs2 overwatch(or 3 with demi company, or even full with lions blade) is nice. But it isn't as powerful as the "pick a sweet bonus" that SM get. The problem with improved over watch is it is once again wasted against armies that won't ever charge you. Most times it plays out either all those hits plink off of a super durable death star, or they help thin the tar pit unit out a bit more before being bogged down (which is where it is most handy!). But it's a minor buff to assault defense in a shooting addition where the only things seriously charging don't care about a few bolt gun hits with a small sprinkle of plasma.

My point is it isn't the same power level of marines who can pick a chapter tactic that synergizes well with their build, and also get doctrines. So yes, our "greenwing" isn't on par with CM. It is still powerful, but not enough to get tossed in with the top cheese.

Also, while deathwing knight are decent, deathwing as a whole is lackluster. Terminators in general are still to high costed for what they do. Now that terminators cannot arrive turn 1, you can't even make a pure DW list. The DW knights decent melee and +1t (which you only get if you bunch up for a nice blast hit) don't make up for them being slow and pricey for what the do.

All of that was me just trying to say that yes DA are in a good place, and much better than our last few books. But they are not on the same level as Eldar/SM/Necrons, and seeing people juse lump them in there because they came out after necrons is just wrong, and tau players will suffer this too. "7.5 dex! OMFG OP!".

All that being said, so far of what I've seen from tau, I think they are in the same place as DA. Really strong, but not over OTT as the big three. If necrons and SM are at 10, eldar crank it up to 11.95, then tau and DA are sitting at best at 9. This may be of little comfort to the codex that is at mute because their speakers are crackling and they have gone deaf from being across the table from 10+.

Alcibiades wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


I feel, however, that the cover mechanic in this game is just poorly implemented in general. A Terminator would almost never benefit from cover in most circumstances, yet Tyranids can't live without it. So Ignores Cover means nothing against some armies, but will destroy others while they can't do anything about it.

I believe this is the point of the mechanic by design.

Well if that's true, that's a terribly designed mechanic.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


I feel, however, that the cover mechanic in this game is just poorly implemented in general. A Terminator would almost never benefit from cover in most circumstances, yet Tyranids can't live without it. So Ignores Cover means nothing against some armies, but will destroy others while they can't do anything about it.

I believe this is the point of the mechanic by design.

Well if that's true, that's a terribly designed mechanic.

Depends on what it's supposed to do.

I'll put it this way. What would Terminators cost if they got a cover save on top of their armnor save, and then an invuln save on top of that? Which is to say if they were layered saves.