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Looking to start White Scars (for 30k mainly as Mantis Warriors are a no-go, but we'll keep the discussion to 40k while I wait for the legion rules to be released).

I'm looking to include Kahn for Scout (and not worry about Warlord Traits) and was thinking Rhino/Razorbacks with Scouts, Bikes, Land Speeders and Flyers to back them up. Would this be a good place to start, for gameplay and fluff?

I've also got the Kauyon book, has anyone had a chance to use the formations yet and if so comment on how good they are in practice?

i think that ou should at least consider some terminators in a raider for surprise value, it doesnt move at the speed of bikes yes but nobody see's it coming. i mean when i find out im playing codex marine white scars i pretty much know your bringing bikes and speeders that makes you hopelessly predictable even razor n rhino troops isnt enough of a divergence for most players to care. it would be unusual but nothing truly divergent from the norm. and it might catch people off guard to see. so dont go writing off units that everybody else isnt taking in their armies because their brainless children who couldnt figure out how to design their own list for all the boyz in a waaaagh and copy pasta like scrubs

anyway if your going to play white scars your mind is probably made up and your going to spam bikes like a sucker so go ahead. load them with as much grav as they can stand because thats all everyone seems to think bikers are capable of doing, maybe throw a power weapon in for spice here n there (avoid sword its worthless on bikes, axes, fists or mauls are the way to go, maybe even lance).

Well I did want a few bikes to make use of Born in the Saddle. Maybe a command squad on bikes. I've run Zhadsnark in the past and an all bike army can be too much to handle for some of my opponents so I wouldn't spam them.

I was thinking a few Devastators too, along with Assault Marines. Maybe Scout 12" and have some Multi-Meltas get in range.

I guess, a good base, backed by unorthodox options, if that makes sense.

I have been having some great experience with several fairly different ways to play white scars recently. IMO both can easily hang with top tier lists but keep in mind with all my advice that I tend to play ITC rules which changes things a bit.

Arguably the most competitive option but also a very hard army to start is the battle company with white scars which gives you free transports. This is probably the best way to go if you want a bunch of power armour marines in transports. I tend to run it with a mix of different formations and relatively little else other than equipment on my units. It is extremely good at scoring objectives and is a great tactical army but only really works if you can win despite kill points due to objectives. The hit and run on your units combined with the tactical doctrines is the secret sauce that gives this the edge.

The second method I tend to run which is actually a pretty good method to build an army is with a CAD where I take khan + 4-6 units of 3 bikers w/ 2x grav guns. I then fill in the rest of my CAD with several of the following options which gives me my killing power; TFC, grav centurions in drop pod, storm talon, fire raptor (forge world), typhon siege tank (forge world), sicaran battle tank (forge world), bike command squad w/ storm shields + apothecary + grav guns, and occasionally I combine this with a Skyhammer Annihilation Force also using white scars chapter tactics (I like hit and run turn 1 assaults). Ironically I usually like to add a ADL and comms relay or other source of reroll reserves so I can drop a TFC or more often a few tarantula sentry guns behind it to let me reserve my army if I go against an alpha strike army. I also tend to take a drop pod and a culexus assassin if I have the pts. This sounds like a single playstyle but actually there are 2-3 pretty different playing lists that this details. It really depends on what you spend your pts on to complement the core of scoring bikes.

I don't have any experience with Kauyon yet but I already had a few ideas with some of the new formations and the new relic that gives ignore cover to the unit just makes every other white scars build massively better. I actually rather like the new formations list there and think some of them could make speeders actually worth looking at again.

I also have been toying around with white scars scout armies but I don't particularly like them as I just prefer different chapter tactics for scout based armies (also limited time).

Had a look at potential combinations of White Scar stuff and I'm liking the look of two builds, both involving a Captain/Chapter Master and Command Squad on Bikes.

1st Loadout draft
Captain w/ Bike, Combi-Grav, Hunters Eye, Artificer Armour
Command squad w. 4x Grav Guns, Bikes, Apothacary

Gives you 15 and then 12 Grav shots, potential for Battle Focus(ish) or TL/Shred depending on detachment, all with Ignore Cover.

2nd Loadout draft
Chapter Master w/ Bike, Artificer Armour, Storm Shield, Glaive of Vengeance (can I take Shield Eternal in pace of Storm Shield?)
Command Squad w/ Bikes, Apothacary, Banner of the Eagle

With this loadout, the Chapter Master has 6 MC attacks at S8 AP2 I5 on the charge, due to the Glaive and Banner. Perfect for Instant Killing T4 and with Hit and Run, I can keep making use of the charge bonus. With an allied detachment of Blood Angels w/ Librarian I can pretty much guarantee a S8 AP2 with I6-8 and A7-9 Chapter Master!!! EDIT: I think S9 is the highest he can go, no insta gibbing T5 :(

Which loadout would be better? Liking the thought of the 2nd one to match WS fluff but the 1st just seems brutal.

1st is better, and no you can't take regular SM relics with the white scar ones ( otherwise you'd see me running around with a chapter master wielding the Glaive of Vengeance, Hunter's Eye and Shield Eternal in every list)

Yes you can. Check out page 153 under Relics of Chogoris.

"You can take items from both lists in the detachment."

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Yes you can. Check out page 153 under Relics of Chogoris.

"You can take items from both lists in the detachment."

Not on the same character you can't.

Can you?


edit.
Holy crap yes you can. Yes I'm going to have fun with this.

I don't know for sure. I don't see anything on it either way.

If it wasn't murky it wouldn't be GW.

So a S7 AP2 Chapter Master is legit (S8 with Furious)?

Can have a lot of fun with this...maybe a Grav Command Squad and a CC squad.

I started a White Scars army at the beginning of the year and am having a lot of fun with them.

My army generally consists of Khan, three units of bikers, some attack bikes, a Stormtalon, grav Centurions in a pod and Scouts in a landspeeder storm as a core. I then add other units as I wish.
If you are playing White Scars, lots of bike units are a good (and thematic) way to go with the army. A command squad with 4 grav guns, apothecary and maybe a storm shield or two is a solid unit.

I recently attended a tournament with my 1850 scars list, had some really fun games and did reasonably well. http://standwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/rapid-fire-2015-battle-report-game-1.html

I don't thibk you can. Looking at the rules for taking the relics (next to the warlord traits,) it says you may take from the relics list instead of the normal C:SM relics list. Although, you CAN combo the Relic Banners for a crazy CC deathstar

Swampmist wrote:
I don't thibk you can. Looking at the rules for taking the relics (next to the warlord traits,) it says you may take from the relics list instead of the normal C:SM relics list. Although, you CAN combo the Relic Banners for a crazy CC deathstar

All I can see is that it says "If you can take relics from the normal codex then you can chose to take relics from the RG or WS relics and you can take relics from both in your detatchment"

tedurur wrote:

Swampmist wrote:
I don't thibk you can. Looking at the rules for taking the relics (next to the warlord traits,) it says you may take from the relics list instead of the normal C:SM relics list. Although, you CAN combo the Relic Banners for a crazy CC deathstar

All I can see is that it says "If you can take relics from the normal codex then you can chose to take relics from the RG or WS relics and you can take relics from both in your detatchment"

It states that you may take relics from the specific list INSTEAD, not AS WELL. Grant you that can be interpreted as that they can take both, but personally I see it as they can choose one list per character.

 Frozocrone wrote:

I was thinking a few Devastators too, along with Assault Marines. Maybe Scout 12" and have some Multi-Meltas get in range.

Both are okay choices. The Assault Marines can hit & run out of combat at the end of the opponent's assault phase... so that you can turn right around and assault them again and get bonus attacks + hammer of wrath.

White Scars are actually a great choice for MSU tac marines. With Khan's scout move, you start the game with your rhinos already at the half-way up the table. The psuedo fleet helps you reach objectives when you're footslogging. And the Hit & Run lets your tactical marines escape from close combat tarpits - very useful against melee-oriented armies.

Swampmist wrote:

tedurur wrote:

Swampmist wrote:
I don't thibk you can. Looking at the rules for taking the relics (next to the warlord traits,) it says you may take from the relics list instead of the normal C:SM relics list. Although, you CAN combo the Relic Banners for a crazy CC deathstar

All I can see is that it says "If you can take relics from the normal codex then you can chose to take relics from the RG or WS relics and you can take relics from both in your detatchment"

It states that you may take relics from the specific list INSTEAD, not AS WELL. Grant you that can be interpreted as that they can take both, but personally I see it as they can choose one list per character.

Oh, I missed the instead in the end of the sentence. No mix and match on the same character then.