Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Warp is an emergent property of the existence of sentience within the milky way. FTL travel through the warp is possible, meaning that the warp somewhat overlap "physical" space-time.

This leads to my question : What is the size of the Warp ? Does the Warp extends into intergalactic space, where no sentient beings presumably exist ? Does the Warp overlap space-time of other galaxies ? Chaos gods are presumably absent there. And what about galaxies devoid of sentient life (either naturally or devoured by the 'nids ) ?

The warp is infinite, sorta - it isn't a physical place. It overlaps with other dimensions - i.e., in the old fluff, 40k debris would sometimes appear in the Fantasy world. As for the rest of your questions, I am not sure.

Basically to the warp physical properties like the size of it are meaningless and inconsistent.

 n0t_u wrote:
Basically to the warp physical properties like the size of it are meaningless and inconsistent.

So how could it be used to travel from one point of realspace to another ?

It's basically the parallel universe of energy to our physical universe.

It exists everywhere that the physical universe does.

However, daemons and the Chaos gods do not. They are the manifestation of emotion (human or otherwise), so in the voids between galaxies they wouldn't exist at all, and possibly other gods would exist in other galaxies as manifestations of those inhabitants mental output.

 LethalShade wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Basically to the warp physical properties like the size of it are meaningless and inconsistent.

So how could it be used to travel from one point of realspace to another ?

The warp drive creates a bubble of realspace within the warp iirc. The gellar field itself basically adds a skin to this pocket of space to better protect the ship. It's likely a big part of what makes warp travel fast but inconsistent. Sometimes it takes way too long to get somewhere or so fast they go back in time.

The question doesn't make sense because things like physical dimensions don't exist in the warp. The warp is chaos, immaterium, unreality, and the laws of physics that govern realspace have no place there. When people from realspace have experiences in the warp they may perceive their immediate surroundings to have realspace-like qualities, but that probably has more to do with the persons perception.

 LethalShade wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Basically to the warp physical properties like the size of it are meaningless and inconsistent.

So how could it be used to travel from one point of realspace to another ?

Because it is both adjacent and space has no meaning. Meaning every point in the warp is, theoretically, adjacent to every point in real space. or alternately each point in real space has a corresponding point in warp space, but the relative distance between 2 points may have no meaning or be non-existent. Thats why travel times in warp space can vary, even causing a ship to leave warp space before it entered. They're only relatively predictable because of the Astronomicon and the Geller field bringing a portion of reality along with it.

Basically, every time a ship enters Warp space, the Navigator charts the course from their point of entry in the warp to the point where exiting the warp will(hopefully) drop them at their destination. The time it takes to travel to the exit point and the distance are always in flux, never the same between 2 warp jumps even between the same points. They do fluctuate in a semi-predictable manner, so its not a total crap shoot as to when and where you are traveling. Plus the Astronomicon acts as the equivalent of a lighthouse, sort of a reference point in reality.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Basically to the warp physical properties like the size of it are meaningless and inconsistent.

So how could it be used to travel from one point of realspace to another ?

Because it is both adjacent and space has no meaning. Meaning every point in the warp is, theoretically, adjacent to every point in real space. or alternately each point in real space has a corresponding point in warp space, but the relative distance between 2 points may have no meaning or be non-existent. Thats why travel times in warp space can vary, even causing a ship to leave warp space before it entered. They're only relatively predictable because of the Astronomicon and the Geller field bringing a portion of reality along with it.

Basically, every time a ship enters Warp space, the Navigator charts the course from their point of entry in the warp to the point where exiting the warp will(hopefully) drop them at their destination. The time it takes to travel to the exit point and the distance are always in flux, never the same between 2 warp jumps even between the same points. They do fluctuate in a semi-predictable manner, so its not a total crap shoot as to when and where you are traveling. Plus the Astronomicon acts as the equivalent of a lighthouse, sort of a reference point in reality.

Actually if fluctuations are semi-predictable, there are distances into the Warp, albeit changing. But this doesn't answer my other questions anyway.

The warp is effectively infinite, it stretches on forever.

Once you leave the galaxy, however, it is a calm sea... at night... with only one light in it, and that is behind you and vanishing fast. You can use the warp to travel extragalactically, but there is no way of navigating because there are no points of reference.

 LethalShade wrote:
The Warp is an emergent property of the existence of sentience within the milky way. FTL travel through the warp is possible, meaning that the warp somewhat overlap "physical" space-time.

This leads to my question : What is the size of the Warp ? Does the Warp extends into intergalactic space, where no sentient beings presumably exist ? Does the Warp overlap space-time of other galaxies ? Chaos gods are presumably absent there. And what about galaxies devoid of sentient life (either naturally or devoured by the 'nids ) ?

The Realms of Chaos are infinite and span not just galaxies but universes.
The power projection of the Chaos Gods is limited only by how strong the real space barrier is in any location in the material universe.
In the milky way the barrier is in shot full of holes and just about about ready to collapse entirely.
The Gods can tear holes in it themselves, but such an act from their end requires some amount of power and they are loath to spend it.

The warp is only navigable because of points of reference created by psychic beings in reality resonating in the unreality of the warp. The warp itself, though, is infinite, ever changing, multidimensional, a place where physics do not apply.Traveling "through" the warp is really a matter of traveling from one point of reference to another. But, if you tried to travel from one galaxy to another, you would have no points up reference and thus simply travel into infinity.

Based on what I've seen the warp is basically infinite.

 Grumblewartz wrote:
40k debris would sometimes appear in the Fantasy world.

Are you calling Kaldor Draigo debris?

well, theoretically infinite? before the chaos gods fethed it up, it was the faux-heaven "realm of souls" so I suppose that would make it rather massive, at the minimum.

 Brennonjw wrote:
well, theoretically infinite? before the chaos gods fethed it up, it was the faux-heaven "realm of souls" so I suppose that would make it rather massive, at the minimum.

So it doesn't extend to intergalactic space, as there's no souls-bearing beings there.

 LethalShade wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
well, theoretically infinite? before the chaos gods fethed it up, it was the faux-heaven "realm of souls" so I suppose that would make it rather massive, at the minimum.

So it doesn't extend to intergalactic space, as there's no souls-bearing beings there.

kinda. Chaos spans universes, and who is to say another galaxy has life/souls, and maybe the space in between is just that: empty (chaos) space.

It is the Warp, the raw stuff of creation. It exists where there is anything that does exist, has existed, or may one day exist.

Think of the warp as the 5th dimention. It is "bigger" than any of the three physical dimentions or time and yet "smaller" than the 6th dimention. It exists outside of 'time' and yet touches all 'times'. Slaneesh always existed yet he was born of the fall of the Eldar. Since it touches all times and all places in any time you can travel through the warp, but it's the humanoid races "simple" brains that attach a measure of time to travel through it (and also that they bring some reality in with them). That's why webway travel is instantaneous. You're traveling through space from one fixed point to another without traveling through time. When you plunge into the warp, you're navigating outside of time, yet you're limited by your notion of travel and the fact that you bring realspace with you.

Or at least that's how I picture it.

 Psienesis wrote:
It is the Warp, the raw stuff of creation. It exists where there is anything that does exist, has existed, or may one day exist.

You forgot 'that which can never exist'.

Never say never. What with strange aeons and all...

 LethalShade wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Basically to the warp physical properties like the size of it are meaningless and inconsistent.

So how could it be used to travel from one point of realspace to another ?

Step 1: Break physics
Step 2: Find a metaphysical concept relating to the destination
Step 3: Strap yourself in, it's gonna be a bumpy ride
Step 4: AAAARRRGHHHH!! DAEMONS AND HERESY AND EVIL AND GAK!
Step 5: Arrive sometime/somewhere

The warp is as expansive as the universe, being a metaphysical reflection of it. It does not have the properties of 3D space.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kungfujew wrote:
Think of the warp as the 5th dimention. It is "bigger" than any of the three physical dimentions or time and yet "smaller" than the 6th dimention. It exists outside of 'time' and yet touches all 'times'. Slaneesh always existed yet he was born of the fall of the Eldar. Since it touches all times and all places in any time you can travel through the warp, but it's the humanoid races "simple" brains that attach a measure of time to travel through it (and also that they bring some reality in with them). That's why webway travel is instantaneous. You're traveling through space from one fixed point to another without traveling through time. When you plunge into the warp, you're navigating outside of time, yet you're limited by your notion of travel and the fact that you bring realspace with you.

Or at least that's how I picture it.

By dimension, do you mean physical direction? If you do, I don't think that's applicable to the Warp at all.

The warp is indefinite, not infinite, it's as big as it is, it touches all realities in all universes, chaos is slightly different as it's a concept as much as it's a part of the warp, the chaos gods in one reality may be paragons of virtue whilst still being evil as hell, they are everything and nothing, the warp is much the same, it doesn't exist, it has no definition, as soon as you define it you are wrong, and right, and purple...

And to travel through the warp is more or less like worm hole travel it's not the space your traveling through but the absence of space. Once outside of reality one is freed from it as so too its rules. Once you no longer need to move through space or from place to place to get somewhere but just be there because there are no natural laws that say you cant. Like playing warhammer with out rules, I can just jump on the table and stomp your models because there are no longer any rules, I don't even need models for that. So with out a natural law saying you must travel x to get from a to z you can just be both places at once.

I like to think of it like this: imagine a mirror that fell on the ground and shattered. All those broken shards of mirror are multiple parallel universes, and the space between all these broken shards is the warp.

Hi all. If one were to drift through deep space, e.g. beyond the eastern fringes, would this real space position have any bearing on the sorts of warp entities that one might attract attention from?

Somebody else can correct me if I'm wrong, but:

I don't think your position in real space necessarily affects the sorts of Warp Entities you attract. The analogy I'd use is that no matter where you sit in the audience, you're still going to be able to see the play you've come to watch. Ergo, no matter where you are in space, you're still going to attract all types of Warp Entities.

So in a theoretical fictional galaxy; f all the psychicly active beings in the west felt only anger, and all the psychicly active beings in the east felt only despair, that some khorne daemon can still try and whisper angry things into someone's ear in the east side and vice versa?

Im sure this has been said but the warp is a parallel of realspace, and because the universe in realspace is infinite and always expanding, so is the warp.

I'd argue that as the warp is a metaphysical reflection of realspace, you locality in both are related. If you have a high density of sex, drugs and entertainment, you have a relatively high density of Slaaneshi warp. This means there may be some quiet areas. But the warp also does not directly correlate to realspace, and uses no spatial dimensions, so weird gak will happen anyways.