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 Orock wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
What are you on about? Why would being within 12" have any impact on stealth or shrouded?

In the case of the ghostkeel it says they lose the cover within 12. However re reading it it says any MODEL within 12 ignores, not unit.

No it doesn't. That is not at all what it says. So that brings me back to my previous point that you clearly haven't read the relevant rules...

 FlingitNow wrote:

 Orock wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
What are you on about? Why would being within 12" have any impact on stealth or shrouded?

In the case of the ghostkeel it says they lose the cover within 12. However re reading it it says any MODEL within 12 ignores, not unit.

No it doesn't. That is not at all what it says. So that brings me back to my previous point that you clearly haven't read the relevant rules...

RAW is a little ambiguous on the situation. "attacks made at a range of greater than 12". What's "attacks"? Is it per model or per unit?

RAI is a different story. Doubling cover SHOULD be applied to any units outside of the 12" range even if one model is within 12". For example, Imagine a congo line of 10 units, each an inch apart. Only the very first model is within the 12". Should the model on the far end of the unit 30" away from the ghostkeel be able to ignore its ability to double cover save? of course not. Only models within 12" can ignore.

No you're getting units and models confused. So lets say you gave 10 tactical marines shooting at 2 Ghostkeels out in the open. 9 of the tactical marines are more than 12" from either Ghostkeel, 1 tactical marine is within 12" of the first Ghostkeel and further than 12" from the other. When firing their bolters only the nearest marine fires 2 shots. The nearest ghostkeel only has a 4+ cover save so uses his 3+ armour, should he die the next Ghostkeel would have a 2+ cover save as he is more than 12" from the unit making the shooting attack (units make shooting attacks not models).

 FlingitNow wrote:
No you're getting units and models confused. So lets say you gave 10 tactical marines shooting at 2 Ghostkeels out in the open. 9 of the tactical marines are more than 12" from either Ghostkeel, 1 tactical marine is within 12" of the first Ghostkeel and further than 12" from the other. When firing their bolters only the nearest marine fires 2 shots. The nearest ghostkeel only has a 4+ cover save so uses his 3+ armour, should he die the next Ghostkeel would have a 2+ cover save as he is more than 12" from the unit making the shooting attack (units make shooting attacks not models).

So in my example above, it makes sense to you that a model 30" away should receive the benefit of "being within 12" just because one single model in his unit is?

It is how the rules work it is an abstraction. Does it make sense that a guy 12" away doubles his rate of fire compared to a guy 12.0000000000000001" away? Does it make sense that because 1 of your 10 marines firing at my Orks in the open has an obscured LoS so I get cover from all 20 boltershots. That is still the rules.

The rule states, ' attacks made at a range greater than 12" '.
So now the current debate boils down to if attacks are made by unit or by model.

I haven't found anything in the brb yet, however the examples and rules given for ranges is taken by model position. If a model cannot see the target unit, he can not shoot at it, even though the rest of the models unit can. Same for range of the weapons being fired.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Brb states,"during the shooting phase, a unit containing models armed with range weapons can be nominated to make shooting attacks". Note the plural "attacks". The unit makes one attack per model (barring the exceptions for vehicles, mc, gmc, other special rules) that can legally shoot.
Range is calculated by model, not unit. So, one model within 12" gets the standard cover save for his attacks, the rest of the models out of 12" get to go against the doubled cover save.