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I'm pretty bummed there apparently is not going to be any DLC for MEA. I think it got a way harsher reception than it warranted. Yeah, it had some issues coming out of the gate... just like every single Bioware game has had, ever. Pretty much all of those were patched out shortly after release. I'm not trying to polish a turd here and say it's OK to release an unfinished game if you patch it later... because that's crap. I just don't think the bugs were anywhere near as big as they got blown up to be.

The game was stable - I don't think I ever really had a crash, although I did have to reload to an earlier save when an NPC fell under the floor. Story was relatively good. Performance was good, graphics were good, voice acting was (mostly) good. I was happy with what I got .

I wouldn't give up hope, Ouze.

The comment has been essentially that "We can't comment on this, and even if we could--we wouldn't. Not until it's ready."

 Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't give up hope, Ouze.

The comment has been essentially that "We can't comment on this, and even if we could--we wouldn't. Not until it's ready."

Are you sure that isn't about Half Life 3 instead?

I was hoping that the game would get an upgrade patch when the xbox scorpio came out but I think that is highly unlikely now too.

I agree with Kanluwen on this one, I would not give up hope on DLC.

 Elemental wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

2) Just because Organics and Synthetics are working together now (and that depends entirely on if you saved the Geth or not), does not preclude them from fighting later. It is entirely possible, even likely, that the Reapers had observed organics working alongside synthetics previously, maybe even against them. After all, all synthetic/organic wars would initially start with the synthetics working with organics. There is zero evidence that the situation with the Geth is unique.

Starchild: "You see, we realised that organic and synthetic enemies inevitably kill each other. To avoid this tragedy, we brutally murder trillions of organic beings in gratuitously cruel ways--or mind control them and force them to murder each other, or turn them into lobotomised shells of what they once were--before they even have a chance to start a war."

Shepard: "You wanna run that past me again?"

The logic is indefensible, because there simply is no logic without tremendous amounts of fanwank.

The logic is there. The Reapers store the genetic information of the species they harvest. From the perspective of a machine, which is made up entirely of code, storing our genetic information is exactly the same as keeping us "alive". Other artificial life is not guaranteed to do so, which can result in the complete loss of genetic information, i.e the species is completely erased from the galaxy rather than being "stored".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Compel wrote:
And even then, it's not, "kill the reapers." It's "kill all synthetic life."

Commit genocide on the Geth, murder EDI, everyone...

<Insert Garrus' comments about the ruthless calculus of war>

Throughout the whole of the game it was constantly being reinforced that in order to win, there would be sacrifices. EDI and the Geth went into that final battle knowing that there was a high chance they would die, even if the mission was ultimately successful. It is up to you to decide whether you can make that sacrifice, or instead attempt to control your enemy or rewrite the genetics of the galaxy.

ME3 is screwy even within its own internal plot. You've got the revelation that the Quarian-Geth War is largely because the quarians freaked out when they realized what they'd created and tried to destroy all of the geth. You've got Joker and EDI fumbling their way into a romantic relationship. Your enemies in most missions are brain-washed organics.

And then Ghost Boy tells you that AI will always attempt to wipe out organics.

Going over the list...

1.). The game just got through telling us that the Quarrians and Geth went to war because the organics started it.
2.). I know sex is sometimes poetically compared to death, but seriously?
3.). Again - it's the brain-washed organics that keep trying to murder you.

Our vassals die because they create AI life who in turn rebels and kills them, we give you the simple task of preventing that and finding a way organic life stops dying from that.

And the solution is to rebel against its masters (unknown how it managed to kill almost the entire race of Leviathans without indoctrination or reapers) kill them and make a synthetic army that comes every 50k years and wipes out the galaxy of organics.

If the solution of the problem is to do the problem yourself then... I really do not know the logic the Catalyst has and the solution is beyond stupid and illogical.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Our vassals die because they create AI life who in turn rebels and kills them, we give you the simple task of preventing that and finding a way organic life stops dying from that.

And the solution is to rebel against its masters (unknown how it managed to kill almost the entire race of Leviathans without indoctrination or reapers) kill them and make a synthetic army that comes every 50k years and wipes out the galaxy of organics.

If the solution of the problem is to do the problem yourself then... I really do not know the logic the Catalyst has and the solution is beyond stupid and illogical.

Because you are ignoring the fact that the Reapers store the genetic information of the species they harvest. From the point of view of the AI, it is not killing the species it harvests as the genetic code is preserved. The Catalyst is the result of an arrogant species assuming it knows better than "lesser species" and failing to apply adequate safeguards on its own AI.

No, I am not ignoring it,though it is sketchy at best, Leviathans asked specifically for having living vassals paying them tribute, not synths or an army of synths that "contain the DNA information" of a galaxy with no plans to do anything about it, as far as everyone is concerned reapers could store pictures, equally ineffective, equally not what it was asked from the Catalyst equally useless with having the genetic information of the galaxy.

Catalyst never found the solution, just made the fight inevitable every 50k years, coming to the reaper solution is as illogical as just accepting Leviathans got defeated by the AI because reasons.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Our vassals die because they create AI life who in turn rebels and kills them, we give you the simple task of preventing that and finding a way organic life stops dying from that.

And the solution is to rebel against its masters (unknown how it managed to kill almost the entire race of Leviathans without indoctrination or reapers) kill them and make a synthetic army that comes every 50k years and wipes out the galaxy of organics.

If the solution of the problem is to do the problem yourself then... I really do not know the logic the Catalyst has and the solution is beyond stupid and illogical.

Because you are ignoring the fact that the Reapers store the genetic information of the species they harvest. From the point of view of the AI, it is not killing the species it harvests as the genetic code is preserved. The Catalyst is the result of an arrogant species assuming it knows better than "lesser species" and failing to apply adequate safeguards on its own AI.

I will posit that if this interpretation is what the ending narrative rests on, then that ending narrative is faulty, because that appeared to whiff by the overwhelmingly vast majority of the playerbase, and this is the first time I've ever seen this interpretation of the logic behind the Reaper's actions as the hinge for their worldview. It's also just rather inherently monstrously unsatisfying in the way it's delivered if so.

It is based on the abandoned dark energy scenario were the reapers were the "good guys".

Dark energy was supposed to rip the galaxy apart and reapers were harvesting the galaxy to preserve the life before it happened, to be restored later when a solution was found.

An interesting proposition with enouph complexity and logical continuation problems that it was quickly abandoned.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I will posit that if this interpretation is what the ending narrative rests on, then that ending narrative is faulty, because that appeared to whiff by the overwhelmingly vast majority of the playerbase, and this is the first time I've ever seen this interpretation of the logic behind the Reaper's actions as the hinge for their worldview. It's also just rather inherently monstrously unsatisfying in the way it's delivered if so.

It also fails to explain their gratuitously cruel and monstrous methods. Crucifying people alive to become cyber-zombies? Vengefully converting the Protheans or Keepers into twisted mindless parodies of themselves when a staff of robots would have been more efficient? Mind-slaving the Rachni to wage a hopeless war that results in their own destruction? Taunting and mocking those who are trying to stop the process?

No, those are the actions of cruel torturers. The Reapers are just too petty for the "but they're god-AI's that are uplifting us, it just seems like extermination to us!" argument to hold any water. And though we knew from the first game what the Reapers were trying to do, this was never presented as a possibly good thing and nobody in-universe reacted with anything other than horror and disgust, so suddenly doing a 180 in the last few minutes of the game remains bad storytelling.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
You mean use the alternative extended ending mods? because even if they smile, they still hold the plate.

If you choose to destroy the machines and have collected enough resources, shepard's plate is not positioned on the wall with the other fallen but the character that was going to do it hesitates to place it, like he/she's feeling that shepard's still alive

I've finished the entire saga 6 times, shepard's plate was never placed on the memorial.

That is the point, they have it, they hold it, it has been made, its a sci fi setting, have the love interest with Shepard on the hospital would make more sense than they "feel" he/ she survived in a setting QFC technology is available, nobody called Normandy to say hey we found him/ her in the ruins?

ME3 was rushed many things were extremely simplified and omitted to get to the publication window and the ending is the worse offender, even with the extended cut.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
That is the point, they have it, they hold it, it has been made, its a sci fi setting, have the love interest with Shepard on the hospital would make more sense than they "feel" he/ she survived in a setting QFC technology is available, nobody called Normandy to say hey we found him/ her in the ruins?

The normandy and its crew had to evacuate and after that everyone though shepard was dead. His/her love interest just had a shiver in that scene. The fact that shepard's fate is a bit uncertain is a very good point IMHO, and what happens next is irrelevant to the story which ends with the galaxy no longer threatened by the reapers.

The extended cut fixes the only mistake that I couldn't bear, which is the moment when shep and mates are rushing to the crucible, something explodes and shep remains alone but in the ending you still see the entire crew alive and well. That mistake was fixed with a scene added with the DLC. Fixing that and chosing the only final that makes sense I'm 100% happy with ME3 ending.

That is flawed logic, Normandy was evacuated, and then what? hold a memorial before making sure of their commanders status? there is no reason to assume he/ she is not just stranded inside the crucible since he/ she most probably activated it in the first place, they definitely must have first contacted the rest of the fighting force to evaluate if they won the battle and the war, they should have been notified about Shepard's survival or not before the memorial service is held.

The extended cut was great because it put context on all the decisions made and showed the impact they had in the end and addressed many early criticism about many things one way or the other, it shifted the grim tone of the end to a more positive one and fixed a lot of illogical scenes the original ending had like the squad mates evacuation, on that, while the love interest evacuation scene is one of the best emotional scenes they made, it makes no sense whatsoever in the game, Harbinger is there he can just blow the entire Normandy up before the chat is even started (admittedly one can ask why the fleet simply does not blow Harbinger to dust from orbit but hey), the same scene if the evacuation was from around the APC second squad mate carrying the love interest out of scene to a designated landing zone for evacuation would make more sense and still allow the squad mates be on Normandy for the crash landing scene.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Because you are ignoring the fact that the Reapers store the genetic information of the species they harvest. From the point of view of the AI, it is not killing the species it harvests as the genetic code is preserved. The Catalyst is the result of an arrogant species assuming it knows better than "lesser species" and failing to apply adequate safeguards on its own AI.

Actually, going back to this argument, you know what did this theme (if it was intended at all, and isn't just fanwank) far better? Mass Effect Andromeda, with the Kett!

The Kett are one of the things I like best about MEA. Because while I can understand how they think their mission to convert everyone into the perfect species (themselves) is a blessing and a sign that they're superior, it also makes them wonderfully hateful villains, racists and petty thieves with a god complex.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

ME3 was rushed many things were extremely simplified and omitted to get to the publication window and the ending is the worse offender, even with the extended cut.

I'm not sure that the ME3 ending was rushed. I finished the game pretty quickly, and then hopped onto the forums to gauge reactions to the ending, and the sense I got was that the Bioware people on the forums were genuinely confused about why people were dissatisfied about the ending.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

The extended cut was great because it put context on all the decisions made and showed the impact they had in the end and addressed many early criticism about many things one way or the other, it shifted the grim tone of the end to a more positive one and fixed a lot of illogical scenes the original ending had like the squad mates evacuation, on that, while the love interest evacuation scene is one of the best emotional scenes they made, it makes no sense whatsoever in the game, Harbinger is there he can just blow the entire Normandy up before the chat is even started (admittedly one can ask why the fleet simply does not blow Harbinger to dust from orbit but hey), the same scene if the evacuation was from around the APC second squad mate carrying the love interest out of scene to a designated landing zone for evacuation would make more sense and still allow the squad mates be on Normandy for the crash landing scene.

I disagree. As I said earlier, I felt there was more than enough information provided throughout the game for the player to be able to speculate as to how the galaxy will shape up after the ending. There is zero need to flat out tell players and that in fact detracts from the ending by lessening the potential for personal interpretation.

As for fixing the final run to the beam? No. The extended cut ruined that scene. The long farewell in the middle of it cut the pacing of the scene, robbing it of the excitement and energy it originally had. This is made even worse by the fact that you are no longer in control of Shepard for the part of the run after the Normandy leaves, which makes the player feel disconnected compared to the original way it played. As to why the fleet didn't blow up Harbinger from orbit? Maybe because there was still the rest of the reaper fleet up there including many Sovereign class Reapers who have been demonstrated to be more than capable of holding off entire fleets on their own before and because to try and target it would risk destroying the beam itself and their own ground forces. You already admit that the more sensible option would be to have your team shuttle off, so why didn't it occur to you that that is exactly what they did in the original cut of that scene? We are seeing that scene entirely from Shepards point of view, in full control of her. After getting hit by Harbinger the screen goes black, implying Shepard lost consciousness. When it comes back we see Harbinger flying off and hear people say the attack was a failure. Why assume that the time between these events is short? Shepard was unconscious and so the player, seeing this scene from her point of view, would not be aware of how much time has passed since being hit and waking back up. It could have been seconds, it could have been minutes, it could have been tens of minutes, long enough for your crew to grab a shuttle and evacuate with other wounded.

Eumerin wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

ME3 was rushed many things were extremely simplified and omitted to get to the publication window and the ending is the worse offender, even with the extended cut.

I'm not sure that the ME3 ending was rushed. I finished the game pretty quickly, and then hopped onto the forums to gauge reactions to the ending, and the sense I got was that the Bioware people on the forums were genuinely confused about why people were dissatisfied about the ending.

I'm fairly sure it was. In the original version, there were rather big plot holes like it never being explained what happened to anyone on the Citadel. They just kinda....vanish, and we're forced to assume they all got horribly killed off camera.

Who cares about citadel's citizens??? None of them was an important character for the story. Things like this one are not plot holes, but only irrelevant events.

No offense, but maybe it's time to find a new thread to talk about the ME3 ending. The... discussion... on it has grown rather large, and in theory this is an ME:A thread.

We really know nothing concrete or solid.

Cora's voice actress has said she went to record additional lines, the book that was tied in with the Quarian arc was delayed even though it is ready and as far as sales go MEA sold above expectations.

On the other hand MEA was a PR disaster upon release, according to the Kotaku article Bioware Montreal has serious issues of management and was not in good terms with the main Bioware studio who in the end send somebody to commandeer then and salvage MEA.

Now that it is defunct, we may see some other Bioware studio tasked with salvaging MEA.

I just finished levelling my Asari Huntress.

I didn't like that one too much, but she did get more enjoyable around level 17 or so when I started being able to do more regular biotics.

I'm going for an Asari Sentinel now, there's a "Wonder Woman" build, so that'd seem fun.

One thing I have learned though is, I *really* love the Sidewinder Pistol. It seems to have the perfect mix of stats for my playstyle

Well Batarian vanguard is available in multiplayer, plus a new shotgun and a new mission again multiplayer.

and, it's dead.

Sad, probably the one mass effect they did better than most, hopefully if they remaster 1-3 they will use MEA engine and combat system.

Maybe we will see something in the future once another studio gets its hands on it.

A real kicker even if I had already resigned myself to the fact the story wouldn't be being finished off any time soon. I've played the game through twice now and pretty much seen most of the content in the main game, but I was fully ready to dive back in if any when some DLC turned up. With that hope gone, I can't see myself replaying it for quite some time and when I do, it'll still have that spectre of being an unfinished story hanging over it.

I guess we now have to go into Firefly Fan Mode and spend the next decade clinging desperately to any mention of a reboot/sequel/spin-off...

Really bummed out man.

Never got to find out what happened to the Quarians.
Never got to find out what happens with that rogue AI.
Never got to find out who killed Jin or whatever her name was.
Didn't matter if you backed Reyes or not.

I wanted some closure on this stuff. I think MEA wasn't the best of the franchise, but I think I would say it was the second best. Very disappointed.

I guess I'm gonna replay it.

I am on the replaying now.

Now on theory-crafting, I have the suspicion the benefactor might have been the original shadow broker (or at least the previous one) given the suspicious change in character from fighting against the reapers to wanting to give Shepard's body to collectors we experienced from ME1 to ME2.