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I got a hardcopy of the new tau codex the other day, and I have several questions.
1. Where is this strD seeker missile?

2. No Skyrays in Hunter Cadres? The only way to include them in a battleforged list is the Armored Interdiction Cadre?

3. Does Farsight and Shadowsun still count as Commanders for the Hunter Cadre?

4. Retaliation Cadre can be used to give broadsides relentless, or only for the DS turn?

5. Coordinated firepower - can I use units that are out of range?

6. Is Farsight Enclaves invalidated with the new codex, or can it still be used? Not sure why I'd want to, but it is a question nonetheless.

**edit**7. Stormsurge and EWO. If I use the Stabilizing Anchors, can I get the 'second' shot with a gun that I shot with the EWO?

 carldooley wrote:
I got a hardcopy of the new tau codex the other day, and I have several questions.
1. Where is this strD seeker missile?

On the Stormsurge, when you fire a Destroyer Missile at a target and use the Markerlight bonus.

2. No Skyrays in Hunter Cadres? The only way to include them in a battleforged list is the Armored Interdiction Cadre?

Or to do a standard CAD rather than a Hunter Cadre.

3. Does Farsight and Shadowsun still count as Commanders for the Hunter Cadre?

Does it say they do? If it does, then they do. If not--it doesn't.

4. Retaliation Cadre can be used to give broadsides relentless, or only for the DS turn?

Relentless is not situational, so they always get Relentless.

5. Coordinated firepower - can I use units that are out of range?

I dont see how farsight is invalidated, it just mentions it is used in combination with tau empires codex. Which is the name of the new codex.

oz of the north wrote:
I dont see how farsight is invalidated, it just mentions it is used in combination with tau empires codex. Which is the name of the new codex.

It's an older style book with the whole FOC swap thing, so again...just best considered invalidated for the time being.

I think hes asking if he can fire once for interceptor and then again using his second shot in the the shooting phase. Either way its a no,

Man, i wish you could use the named commanders as the hq for hunter contingent. would be interesting.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

5. Coordinated firepower - can I use units that are out of range?

No. You're making a shooting attack, resolving as though you're a single unit.
In order to make the shooting attack you would need to be able to shoot.

6. Is Farsight Enclaves invalidated with the new codex, or can it still be used? Not sure why I'd want to, but it is a question nonetheless.

Consider it invalidated.

I disagree with both of these answers.

If coordinating firepower makes multiple units shoot as one unit, even if a unit is out of range they most certainly CAN still participate in the coordiatned attack, they just wouldn't be able to shoot. This is no different than if I have multiple weapons in one unit with different ranges, some of which are within range and some which are not

Farsight enclave specifically says used with Codex Tau Empire, which the new codex still is titled as

 Kanluwen wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
I dont see how farsight is invalidated, it just mentions it is used in combination with tau empires codex. Which is the name of the new codex.

It's an older style book with the whole FOC swap thing, so again...just best considered invalidated for the time being.

Playing with good friends they probably wouldnt care, but dont expect to bring it to a tourney, you might also get flak at a FLGS but i dont know. Id let you use it personally.

 Kanluwen wrote:

**edit**7. Stormsurge and EWO. If I use the Stabilizing Anchors, can I get the 'second' shot with a gun that I shot with the EWO?

No. Interceptor attacks are done at the end of the enemy Movement phase. Stabilizing Ancohrs specifically states "Shooting Phase".

I might try to justify targeting a second unit with the same gun, but I was asking about my turn. I know that I cannot normally fire a weapon that I fired with interceptor during my turn, but the Anchors allow me to fire everything twice. The first firing is sacrificed to the EWO, but the second?

**edit** ninja'd

 carldooley wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

**edit**7. Stormsurge and EWO. If I use the Stabilizing Anchors, can I get the 'second' shot with a gun that I shot with the EWO?

No. Interceptor attacks are done at the end of the enemy Movement phase. Stabilizing Ancohrs specifically states "Shooting Phase".

I might try to justify targeting a second unit with the same gun, but I was asking about my turn. I know that I cannot normally fire a weapon that I fired with interceptor during my turn, but the Anchors allow me to fire everything twice. The first firing is sacrificed to the EWO, but the second?

You should still be able to fire each weapon one more time during your shooting phase yes.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

5. Coordinated firepower - can I use units that are out of range?

No. You're making a shooting attack, resolving as though you're a single unit.
In order to make the shooting attack you would need to be able to shoot.

6. Is Farsight Enclaves invalidated with the new codex, or can it still be used? Not sure why I'd want to, but it is a question nonetheless.

Consider it invalidated.

I disagree with both of these answers.

If coordinating firepower makes multiple units shoot as one unit, even if a unit is out of range they most certainly CAN still participate in the coordiatned attack, they just wouldn't be able to shoot. This is no different than if I have multiple weapons in one unit with different ranges, some of which are within range and some which are not

Farsight enclave specifically says used with Codex Tau Empire, which the new codex still is titled as

everyone ive seen play it and talk about it plans to use it only if the target is in range of the unit. Using a pathfinder quad on the opposite side of the table running away(that can still snapfire) as your 3rd wheel for the extra BS in kinda shenanigans. I bet it gets FAQ'd in the tournament scene to not work that way at most if not all events.

 Wolfnid420 wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

5. Coordinated firepower - can I use units that are out of range?

No. You're making a shooting attack, resolving as though you're a single unit.
In order to make the shooting attack you would need to be able to shoot.

6. Is Farsight Enclaves invalidated with the new codex, or can it still be used? Not sure why I'd want to, but it is a question nonetheless.

Consider it invalidated.

I disagree with both of these answers.

If coordinating firepower makes multiple units shoot as one unit, even if a unit is out of range they most certainly CAN still participate in the coordiatned attack, they just wouldn't be able to shoot. This is no different than if I have multiple weapons in one unit with different ranges, some of which are within range and some which are not

Farsight enclave specifically says used with Codex Tau Empire, which the new codex still is titled as

everyone ive seen play it and talk about it plans to use it only if the target is in range of the unit. Using a pathfinder quad on the opposite side of the table running away(that can still snapfire) as your 3rd wheel for the extra BS in kinda shenanigans. I bet it gets FAQ'd in the tournament scene to not work that way at most if not all events.

It does not matter if it is "shenanigans". RAW, 3 units fire together as if one unit. If they are out of range, then they do not fire. There is nothing in the rules to prevent this.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

**edit**7. Stormsurge and EWO. If I use the Stabilizing Anchors, can I get the 'second' shot with a gun that I shot with the EWO?

No. Interceptor attacks are done at the end of the enemy Movement phase. Stabilizing Ancohrs specifically states "Shooting Phase".

I might try to justify targeting a second unit with the same gun, but I was asking about my turn. I know that I cannot normally fire a weapon that I fired with interceptor during my turn, but the Anchors allow me to fire everything twice. The first firing is sacrificed to the EWO, but the second?

You should still be able to fire each weapon one more time during your shooting phase yes.

I dont think you should get the bonus shot. When you fire with interceptor your gun is used, you dont gain the ability to shoot twice UNTIL your shooting phase. You would have to be able to shoot once, in order to be able to shoot twice. Now if its turn 3( and you anchored in turn 1) and something come in and you wanna shoot it with interceptor.....maybe then you could split up your double shooting.....but im not really sure

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

5. Coordinated firepower - can I use units that are out of range?

No. You're making a shooting attack, resolving as though you're a single unit.
In order to make the shooting attack you would need to be able to shoot.

6. Is Farsight Enclaves invalidated with the new codex, or can it still be used? Not sure why I'd want to, but it is a question nonetheless.

Consider it invalidated.

I disagree with both of these answers.

If coordinating firepower makes multiple units shoot as one unit, even if a unit is out of range they most certainly CAN still participate in the coordiatned attack, they just wouldn't be able to shoot. This is no different than if I have multiple weapons in one unit with different ranges, some of which are within range and some which are not

And I disagree with this, because then you could just do nonsense like "I'm going to throw a Buffmander who is half the field away in to participate with this Coordinated Firepower shot, who isn't going to actually fire and instead grants his benefits to the squads involved--along with a free +1 BS!".

I agree RAW it is allowed to have a unit be out of range and still work, i just personally wont play it that way, and i bet it gets ruled against in tournaments for simplicity's sake. But you are correct, it is allowed RAW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

5. Coordinated firepower - can I use units that are out of range?

No. You're making a shooting attack, resolving as though you're a single unit.
In order to make the shooting attack you would need to be able to shoot.

6. Is Farsight Enclaves invalidated with the new codex, or can it still be used? Not sure why I'd want to, but it is a question nonetheless.

Consider it invalidated.

I disagree with both of these answers.

If coordinating firepower makes multiple units shoot as one unit, even if a unit is out of range they most certainly CAN still participate in the coordiatned attack, they just wouldn't be able to shoot. This is no different than if I have multiple weapons in one unit with different ranges, some of which are within range and some which are not

And I disagree with this, because then you could just do nonsense like "I'm going to throw a Buffmander who is half the field away in to participate with this Coordinated Firepower shot, who isn't going to actually fire and instead grants his benefits to the squads involved--along with a free +1 BS!".

ITC has ruled out ability sharing, its all about markerlights and BS+1

 Wolfnid420 wrote:

ITC has ruled out ability sharing, its all about markerlights and BS+1

Unless I missed it, I did not believe they decided on that yet. In fact, in a recent post it seems liked they may be leaning toward sharing, but not spreading with TLs

when i was looking at the YMDC thread they posted a link to it i believe. Also the way i read it says ability sharing is out, but there is nothing stopping TL's from working, though i wouldnt let them get the BS+1 if they dont shoot at the unit everyone is firing at

 Kanluwen wrote:
And I disagree with this, because then you could just do nonsense like "I'm going to throw a Buffmander who is half the field away in to participate with this Coordinated Firepower shot, who isn't going to actually fire and instead grants his benefits to the squads involved--along with a free +1 BS!".

Well yes, it's a stupid rule, but that's how it works. Hating blatantly overpowered formation rules doesn't change what the rules say.

FSE is NOT invalidated by this, but it makes no sense (the special command team for example, refers to a rule no longer there, the 3 suit requirement is odd and means most formations can't be taken as stand-alones, etc.)

On the other hand, a new FSE book is about to come out REALLY soon. (and by soon I mean, 2 months. possibly less.)

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
I

Man, i wish you could use the named commanders as the hq for hunter contingent. would be interesting.

Well, you can at least use Shadowsun as part of the Contingent Headquarters

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
when i was looking at the YMDC thread they posted a link to it i believe. Also the way i read it says ability sharing is out, but there is nothing stopping TL's from working, though i wouldnt let them get the BS+1 if they dont shoot at the unit everyone is firing at

In the Signals from the Frontline Episode #386, they said they are leaning toward sharing rules, but only on the one individual unit being targeted by coordinated firepower, meaning TL don't work

so are you saying you cant TL at all? or that you cant get any bonuses while TLing?

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
so are you saying you cant TL at all? or that you cant get any bonuses while TLing?

I'm saying that all of the bonuses apply. The unit gains the bonuses by participating in the combined shot, and any models within the unit that split their fire still get them.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And I disagree with this, because then you could just do nonsense like "I'm going to throw a Buffmander who is half the field away in to participate with this Coordinated Firepower shot, who isn't going to actually fire and instead grants his benefits to the squads involved--along with a free +1 BS!".

Well yes, it's a stupid rule, but that's how it works. Hating blatantly overpowered formation rules doesn't change what the rules say.

Since they cannot Shoot, they cannot participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack.

Read the rule for Coordinated Firepower:

Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit--this includes the use of markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill.

The units MUST shoot the same target--they cannot join if they cannot fire.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Since they cannot Shoot, they cannot participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack.

The unit shoots. An individual model within the unit does not.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And I disagree with this, because then you could just do nonsense like "I'm going to throw a Buffmander who is half the field away in to participate with this Coordinated Firepower shot, who isn't going to actually fire and instead grants his benefits to the squads involved--along with a free +1 BS!".

Well yes, it's a stupid rule, but that's how it works. Hating blatantly overpowered formation rules doesn't change what the rules say.

Since they cannot Shoot, they cannot participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack.

Read the rule for Coordinated Firepower:

Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit--this includes the use of markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill.

The units MUST shoot the same target--they cannot join if they cannot fire.

Again, disagree

They can definitely shoot. the target is just out of range of their guns. The second they use CFP and shoot as if combined with other units, they are 100% able to contribute in the overall firing, even if they cannot actually shoot. You are conveniently forgetting the "resolving their shots as if they were a single unit" part of the rule.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Since they cannot Shoot, they cannot participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack.

The unit shoots. An individual model within the unit does not.

They MUST SHOOT to participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack, ergo you need to be in range.

That also removes Buffmanders from being able to participate!

Must. Must. Must. Must.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
when i was looking at the YMDC thread they posted a link to it i believe. Also the way i read it says ability sharing is out, but there is nothing stopping TL's from working, though i wouldnt let them get the BS+1 if they dont shoot at the unit everyone is firing at

In the Signals from the Frontline Episode #386, they said they are leaning toward sharing rules, but only on the one individual unit being targeted by coordinated firepower, meaning TL don't work

Peregrine wrote:

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
so are you saying you cant TL at all? or that you cant get any bonuses while TLing?

I'm saying that all of the bonuses apply. The unit gains the bonuses by participating in the combined shot, and any models within the unit that split their fire still get them.

i should have quoted the first time I asked.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They MUST SHOOT to participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack, ergo you need to be in range.

There is no requirement in 7th edition to be within range of any of your weapons to pick a unit as a target. The unit shoots at the coordinated firepower target, finds that all of its weapons are out of range, and finishes resolving its shooting without accomplishing anything.

That also removes Buffmanders from being able to participate!

No it doesn't. The unit still shoots (picking a target, checking LOS, etc), even if no individual models within the unit fire any weapons.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Since they cannot Shoot, they cannot participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack.

The unit shoots. An individual model within the unit does not.

They MUST SHOOT to participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack, ergo you need to be in range.

That also removes Buffmanders from being able to participate!

Must. Must. Must. Must.

If i have a unit with a missile launcher and a boltor, am I still able to shoot at a target 30" away using just the missile launcher? Yes right?

is the UNIT still shooting? Yes right?

Does that mean every model in that unit is firing their gun? NOPE

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They MUST SHOOT to participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack, ergo you need to be in range.

There is no requirement in 7th edition to be within range of any of your weapons to pick a unit as a target. The unit shoots at the coordinated firepower target, finds that all of its weapons are out of range, and finishes resolving its shooting without accomplishing anything.

What part of "MUST SHOOT" is so difficult to comprehend?

If you cannot see the target and cannot reach it with a weapon in the squad, you cannot participate in the Combined Attack. Nowhere does it say that you may participate in the attack even if you cannot actually shoot the target.

That also removes Buffmanders from being able to participate!

No it doesn't. The unit still shoots (picking a target, checking LOS, etc), even if no individual models within the unit fire any weapons.

"MUST SHOOT".




Automatically Appended Next Post:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Since they cannot Shoot, they cannot participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack.

The unit shoots. An individual model within the unit does not.

They MUST SHOOT to participate in the Coordinated Firepower attack, ergo you need to be in range.

That also removes Buffmanders from being able to participate!

Must. Must. Must. Must.

If i have a unit with a missile launcher and a boltor, am I still able to shoot at a target 30" away using just the missile launcher? Yes right?

is the UNIT still shooting? Yes right?

Does that mean every model in that unit is firing their gun? NOPE

If the UNIT must perform a Shooting Attack, then at least one model must be able to do so.