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So, after viewing this post: http://ftgtgaming.blogspot.com/2015/11/top-10-strongest-units-in-40k.html?m=1 I realized heldrakes in a pure chaos marine list are not that bad, especially in the competitive scene. Are heldrakes still cheesy? YES! But in the competitive environment, when running pure CSM, I am questioning why I shouldn't be running 3. Yes, they are hard to kill with more defense this edition, but they got nerfed. Add to the fact I have run out of cash, Maulerfiends are out. I am forced to run a somewhat interesting, somewhat bland, and still somewhat Limburger cheese style list. After reviewing all the figures I have, this list seems the most solid, but I still will go into every tournament expecting a major loss/ getting tabled between Necrons, Tau, and all the other heavy shooter lists. With that said: This is what I will run the entire year of tournaments, but not at my FLGS league obviously. If I'm going to play the same list at every tournament, I need to know everything inside and out if I want to win games and not stall on reviewing the rules during important games. I haven't won a single game with CSM since 5th, but I also never used a single hell drake since I tried to go pure assault, which doesn't work too well anymore lol.

Chaos Marines

HQ

Lvl 3 Nurgle Prince with power armor, wings, spell familiar, burning brand of Skalathrax, the black mace

Troops

10 cultists

10 cultists

Elites

5 noise marines- blastmaster

5 noise marines- blastmaster

5 noise marines- blastmaster

Fast Attack

Hell drake

Helldrake

Hell drake

Heavy support

3 Obliterators mark of Nurgle veterans

5 veteran havocs- 4 autocannons

5 veteran havocs- 4 autocannons

1850

Invisible is obviously going to be impossible to deal with, but this is probably as good as I can do with what I have. I would be tempted to replace my 3 heavy support choices for Maulerfiends eventually, but for now this is as good as it will get (plus the extra shooting might actually be better than mailers)

I think it's a good list, but this is what I'd do to tweak it:

Take off the Power Armor and Burning Brand from the Demon Prince. You're going to want him to be jinking for the 2+ cover save anyway, and without Power Armor he'll be harder to kill with Grav weapons (wounding him on a 6+ instead of 3+).

Then remove VOTLW from the Havocs (who won't benefit much, their Aspiring Champion already has LD9), and from the Obliterators. Then get a lvl 1 Sorcerer and put him with whoever.

The reason for this is because you won't sink all of those points into your DP and give up Warlord so early. Lone Warlord DP's are juicy targets and your opponent will pile any amount of shooting into him as possible. He's not as much of a target if you have a 2nd HQ hiding in the back as your Warlord, in this case your lvl1 Sorcerer.

I promise you if you don't do this you will give up Warlord in the 1st or 2nd turn and not even get a chance to use your DP. I know this from experience =P

This is a good list though, those are my only suggestions =]

Competitive chaos id run

Three drakes
Two maulerfiends
One chaos knight

Add your cultists maybe some melta bikes or spawn etc
The rest of the stuff listed above is almost unstoppable. Your havos and oblits are going to get rocked at a tournament by things your heldrakes can't hurt much (grav cents for one).

Okay, well like I posted earlier, I do not have any Maulers and can't afford them. I have:


1 Daemon Prince of slaanesh

1 Slaanesh lord on steed of Slaanesh

1 Nurgle lord on bike with lightning claw and power fist

5 chaos spawn

Chaos Sorceror on bike

10 chaos marine bikes- 2 melta guns icon of excess (Slaanesh)

Belakor

6 Nurglings

11 pink horrors

10 flesh hounds of khorne

8 fiends of Slaanesh

4 heralds of Slaanesh ( only chaos daemons can use heralds)

Lord of change

That's all I could afford. Any suggestions?

 Defeatmyarmy wrote:
Okay, well like I posted earlier, I do not have any Maulers and can't afford them. I have:


1 Daemon Prince of slaanesh

1 Slaanesh lord on steed of Slaanesh

1 Nurgle lord on bike with lightning claw and power fist

5 chaos spawn

Chaos Sorceror on bike

10 chaos marine bikes- 2 melta guns icon of excess (Slaanesh)

Belakor

6 Nurglings

11 pink horrors

10 flesh hounds of khorne

8 fiends of Slaanesh

4 heralds of Slaanesh ( only chaos daemons can use heralds)

Lord of change

That's all I could afford. Any suggestions?

If you can manage to get Belakor in the list, with the Sorc on bike running with a unit of spawn for ablative wounds... Cast invis on the unit, and watch them either tar pit, or wreak havoc on units, as they're t6 (with MoN) and only can be hit on 6s, stuff just simply WON'T be able to kill them.
Then you run around with Belakor jinking with shrouded, so still getting a 2+ cover save, and smashing vehicles with armourbane.

Okay, how about this:

Hq

Lvl 3 Sorceror burning brand of Skalathrax, bike,

Belakor

Troops

10 cultists

10 cultists

Elites

5 noise marines- blastmaster

5 noise marines- blastmaster

Fast Attack

Hell drake

Hell drake

5 chaos spawn of Nurgle

Chaos Allied Detachment

HQ

Herald of Slaanesh Lvl 2 on steed locus of Beguilement

Troops

3 Nurglings

Elites

8 fiends of Slaanesh

1850


Not positive but I think I can take one herald and steeds allow outflank and acute senses for fiends?

A Slaaneshi Demon Prince is good, +3" run or 2D6+3" while Swooping, and has Rending so it can actually be a threat to vehicles. It just won't be as survivable as the Nurgle Prince is, but it is the only version of the Demon Prince that is a threat to vehicles w/o Smashing.

So simply working with what you have you can't use Chaos Space Marines because you have no Troop units, you'd have to go Unbound, and you don't have enough demons to make an 1850 list unless you just maxed out on upgrades/gifts.

Are you planning on buying extra Chaos Space Marines or Chaos Demons?

 Mr_Volcano wrote:
A Slaaneshi Demon Prince is good, +3" run or 2D6+3" while Swooping, and has Rending so it can actually be a threat to vehicles. It just won't be as survivable as the Nurgle Prince is, but it is the only version of the Demon Prince that is a threat to vehicles w/o Smashing.

So simply working with what you have you can't use Chaos Space Marines because you have no Troop units, you'd have to go Unbound, and you don't have enough demons to make an 1850 list unless you just maxed out on upgrades/gifts.

Are you planning on buying extra Chaos Space Marines or Chaos Demons?

No, I literally have no cash in my budget to buy more. Just bought fallout 4 and the expansion packs pre release so won't have any $ to budget until after January. Next tournament I have is on November 28 for 1850

I could drop something, throw Belakor in daemons allied detachment, and put in a chaos lord of Slaanesh drop cultists/ add noise marines for troops? I think objective secured is overrated as most chaos units struggle to survive as troops/ too many points for troops would prevent harder hitting units doing what they need to.

 Defeatmyarmy wrote:
Okay, how about this:

Hq

Lvl 3 Sorceror burning brand of Skalathrax, bike,

Belakor

Troops

10 cultists

10 cultists

Elites

5 noise marines- blastmaster

5 noise marines- blastmaster

Fast Attack

Hell drake

Hell drake

5 chaos spawn of Nurgle

Chaos Allied Detachment

HQ

Herald of Slaanesh Lvl 2 on steed locus of Beguilement

Troops

3 Nurglings

Elites

8 fiends of Slaanesh

1850


Not positive but I think I can take one herald and steeds allow outflank and acute senses for fiends?

I quite like this list

LoLZ 3 drakes?

CSM can never be competitive. You should just play Eldar Scat Bike Spam with Wraith Knights if you want to be competitive.

Well, unless it is an Unbound tournament or allows for Unbound, you might want to sit it out because you can only make a list with the Chaos Demons and even braking it into a CAD and an Allied, you'll have to use ever single model and then max out on upgrades, that usually doesn't build a cohesive list. But using that I'll go ahead and put out a list for you with what you currently have:

COMBINED ARMS DETACHMENT

HQ

Lord of Change (Warlord): lvl3 (Change), Grimoire, Mutating Warpblade. 305pts

Herald of Slaanesh 1: lvl1 (Telepathy), Steed, Greater Ether Blade, Locus of Beguilement. 135pts

Herald of Slaanesh 2: lvl1 (Telepathy), Ether Blade. 80pts

ELITES

Fiends of Slaanesh: 8 Fiends. 280pts

TROOPS

Nurglings x2: 3 Nurglings. 45pts

FAST ATTACK

Flesh Hounds x2: 5 Flesh Hounds. 80pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

Demon Prince: DoT, lvl3 (Biomancy), Wings, Armor, Mutating Warpblade.345pts

ALLIED DETACHMENT

HQ

Be'lakor. 350pts

TROOPS

Pink Horrors: 10 Pink Horrors, 1 Iridescent Horror. 104pts

TOTAL POINTS: 1,849


EDIT: I just noticed I forgot to add in your Fiends, so you actually are good on points without really having to fill in gaps with upgrades that much.

So essentially this is going to hinge on Be'lakor and your Demon Prince doing most of the heavy lifting. Your Lord of Change and your Herald with the Feinds are meant to be a distraction from your advancing Princes. The Lord of Change will be flying around throwing down Witchfires while your Outflanking Herald (obviously using your Chaos Lord for this, if you think he could pass for one) and Fiends (yes Outflank confers to the whole unit) and scare your opponent. You're Flesh Hounds scout up, grabbing objectives along the way if they can, Nurglings of course DS onto objectives. Horrors will sit on a home objective providing warp charge boosts for Princes, you could roll on Malefic for these guys so that whenever you run low on Hounds or Nurglings you can summon them back, or potentially summon up the rest of your Slaanesh Heralds or even your Lord of Change again if he dies. Your lone Slaanesh Herald is there to grab objectives, provide extra warp charges, and be a thorn in your opponent's side. You could DS her, hide her, charge DS in your deployment zone, anything really.

This is what I could come up with regarding what you have. I hope this helps!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Filch wrote:
LoLZ 3 drakes?

CSM can never be competitive. You should just play Eldar Scat Bike Spam with Wraith Knights if you want to be competitive.

I disagree. I've come in 2nd place using my Chaos Space Marines. You have to workout strategies and try things that other CSM players wouldn't think would work. You won't win against a Wraith army or an Eldar jet bike army, but not everyone brings those, just the a- players. Against most other armies though, even against Knight armies, you can win, but you'll need to play around with CSM a bit to figure it out. Using Forge World is definitely the way to go, you can scratch build a few of their stuff easily enough. I scratch built a Relic Predator with a Plasma Destructor (heavy 3 Plasma Cannon that doesn't overheat), and you could scratch build Contemptors out of SM Dreadnoughts, etc. If people whine about it tell them to suck it up, especially if they have a top tier army (Necrons, Eldar, Tau). CSMs are behind by almost 3 years now, we need all the help we can get, lol

Also you can ally with Orks for some extra shenanigans by taking 2 CADs and a Stompa, lol or go IA13 and take Renegade IG/AM for Russ and Wyvern squadrons.

Good list Mr_Volcano, but unless a tournament has specific rules allowing it, self-allying is not allowed in the BRB. The list is easily fixed though to make it legal:

1. Remove a unit of nurglings
2. Remove the Iridescent Horror
3. Move the pink horrors to the daemons CAD
4. Put Be'lakor in a allied detachment of CSM with 10 cultists.

UncleanOne wrote:
Good list Mr_Volcano, but unless a tournament has specific rules allowing it, self-allying is not allowed in the BRB. The list is easily fixed though to make it legal:

1. Remove a unit of nurglings
2. Remove the Iridescent Horror
3. Move the pink horrors to the daemons CAD
4. Put Be'lakor in a allied detachment of CSM with 10 cultists.

oops, all this time I thought you could ally with yourself since you were BB with your own faction, that changed from 6th. I've been playing so many games with "illegal" allied detachments...

 Mr_Volcano wrote:
Well, unless it is an Unbound tournament or allows for Unbound, you might want to sit it out because you can only make a list with the Chaos Demons and even braking it into a CAD and an Allied, you'll have to use ever single model and then max out on upgrades, that usually doesn't build a cohesive list. But using that I'll go ahead and put out a list for you with what you currently have:

COMBINED ARMS DETACHMENT

HQ

Lord of Change (Warlord): lvl3 (Change), Grimoire, Mutating Warpblade. 305pts

Herald of Slaanesh 1: lvl1 (Telepathy), Steed, Greater Ether Blade, Locus of Beguilement. 135pts

Herald of Slaanesh 2: lvl1 (Telepathy), Ether Blade. 80pts

ELITES

Fiends of Slaanesh: 8 Fiends. 280pts

TROOPS

Nurglings x2: 3 Nurglings. 45pts

FAST ATTACK

Flesh Hounds x2: 5 Flesh Hounds. 80pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

Demon Prince: DoT, lvl3 (Biomancy), Wings, Armor, Mutating Warpblade.345pts

ALLIED DETACHMENT

HQ

Be'lakor. 350pts

TROOPS

Pink Horrors: 10 Pink Horrors, 1 Iridescent Horror. 104pts

TOTAL POINTS: 1,849


EDIT: I just noticed I forgot to add in your Fiends, so you actually are good on points without really having to fill in gaps with upgrades that much.

So essentially this is going to hinge on Be'lakor and your Demon Prince doing most of the heavy lifting. Your Lord of Change and your Herald with the Feinds are meant to be a distraction from your advancing Princes. The Lord of Change will be flying around throwing down Witchfires while your Outflanking Herald (obviously using your Chaos Lord for this, if you think he could pass for one) and Fiends (yes Outflank confers to the whole unit) and scare your opponent. You're Flesh Hounds scout up, grabbing objectives along the way if they can, Nurglings of course DS onto objectives. Horrors will sit on a home objective providing warp charge boosts for Princes, you could roll on Malefic for these guys so that whenever you run low on Hounds or Nurglings you can summon them back, or potentially summon up the rest of your Slaanesh Heralds or even your Lord of Change again if he dies. Your lone Slaanesh Herald is there to grab objectives, provide extra warp charges, and be a thorn in your opponent's side. You could DS her, hide her, charge DS in your deployment zone, anything really.

This is what I could come up with regarding what you have. I hope this helps!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Filch wrote:
LoLZ 3 drakes?

CSM can never be competitive. You should just play Eldar Scat Bike Spam with Wraith Knights if you want to be competitive.

I disagree. I've come in 2nd place using my Chaos Space Marines. You have to workout strategies and try things that other CSM players wouldn't think would work. You won't win against a Wraith army or an Eldar jet bike army, but not everyone brings those, just the a- players. Against most other armies though, even against Knight armies, you can win, but you'll need to play around with CSM a bit to figure it out. Using Forge World is definitely the way to go, you can scratch build a few of their stuff easily enough. I scratch built a Relic Predator with a Plasma Destructor (heavy 3 Plasma Cannon that doesn't overheat), and you could scratch build Contemptors out of SM Dreadnoughts, etc. If people whine about it tell them to suck it up, especially if they have a top tier army (Necrons, Eldar, Tau). CSMs are behind by almost 3 years now, we need all the help we can get, lol

Also you can ally with Orks for some extra shenanigans by taking 2 CADs and a Stompa, lol or go IA13 and take Renegade IG/AM for Russ and Wyvern squadrons.

If I dont get in top 4 with CSM then I dont count any of the small victories. The event was a waste of time. Why do other armies get power creep but CSM? shouldn't they have some OP imba stuff from being from 6th ed?

Imperial Knight armies are easy. I just drop several termicide with combi meltas, or oblitz with lascannons or melta guns and I strip away d3 hp when I roll up to 6 on the damage table.

Wraith knights however are a piece of turd as CSM has no grav guns.

 Filch wrote:

If I dont get in top 4 with CSM then I dont count any of the small victories. The event was a waste of time. Why do other armies get power creep but CSM? shouldn't they have some OP imba stuff from being from 6th ed?

Imperial Knight armies are easy. I just drop several termicide with combi meltas, or oblitz with lascannons or melta guns and I strip away d3 hp when I roll up to 6 on the damage table.

Wraith knights however are a piece of turd as CSM has no grav guns.

I know it does suck. The best thing we've go so far is KDK, which is what I'm working on right now, but even then we still can't deal with Necrons, Eldar or Tau any better than a CSM army could. Blood Tithe can be pretty beneficial, but we still need things like charging from reserves like Loyalists are getting. Us more than anyone really, lol

Final edit:

HQ:

7 Lvl 1 heralds of Slaanesh on steeds

Troops

3 Nurglings

3 Nurglings

Elites


3 fiends of Slaanesh

3 fiends of Slaanesh

3 fiends of Slaanesh

Fast Attack

5 seekers- Heartseeker with greater reward

CSM CAD

1 daemon Prince of Nurgle Lvl 3 with wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle Lvl 2 with wings

Troops

10 cultists

10 cultists

1850