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This is my first time playing and making an army, so I'm not exactly sure what the heck I'm doing or what all the numbers mean. I do need a lot of help, but I'm learning as I go along (albeit slowly). I have a game, my first, tomorrow with a friend playing Chaos Daemons. We're playing king of the hill in a large map with 500 point armies, so I cooked this little guy up:

HQ (95 points):

Big Mek (Kustom Force Field, 2x Grot Oiler)

Troops (243 points):

10x Shoota Boyz (+Boy with Rokkit Launcha)
10x Shoota Boyz (+Boy with Rokkit Launcha)
10x Shoota Boyz (+Boy with Rokkit Launcha)

Fast Attack (60 points):

2x Deffkoptas (one with a Big Shoota, the other with a Rokkit Launcha)

Heavy Support (100 points):

2x Killa Kans

Total: 498 points


My strategy here is to keep the Big Mek guarded by the Deffkoptas so that he can fix them. Thanks to their fast movement, they can do some nice guerilla attacks and rush back if things get hazy. The Boyz will be deployed in threes, one protecting each of the Big Mek's sides and one in front. The Killa Kans will be in front of those guys. My plan is to fan them out, with the Killa Kan+Shoota group going for the main objective and the other two squads scouting for the other objectives. My Big Mek will make a beeline to support the Killa Kans and fix them if needed. Once he takes the central spot, his Deffkoptas can rush to the nearest point that needs help, and the Killa Kans, if they're not dead, will support as well to form a wall to protect my Boyz.

My friend saw my army and asked me if I had any characters accompanying the Deffkoptas. How do I attach my Big Mek to the Deffkopta squad? Can I do that? I want them to protect him and get his leadership bonus because I heard they suck on their own with morale rolls, but I will be breaking up that squad sometime during the middle of the game to send the fast Deffkoptas in support roles while my Big Mek stays behind to fix the Kans or whatever.

What do you guys think? What should I add/remove/change?

Deffkoptaz are not vehicles, and he cannot fix them. He can fix the kanz, and since they're pretty big, just stick him behind them and he can fix them. What's really nice is that in a 500 point game there's not much that will hurt AV11 at range.

HOWEVER, daemons don't usually bring much in the way of shooting, so your KFF may be totally pointless, it depends on what your opponent usually fields. Grot oilers are ok... But may be wasted points since your Kanz are the only things that can be repaired, and with only 2 hull points a piece they're not very hard to knock down. Also, run your kanz as single models, I'd go one with rokkit, one with Bshoota, they can go after different targets, and are the ONLY vehicles in the game that actually worry about morale checks. Single ones don't though, much better.

Run the deffkoptaz as individual units, then they can zoom around and your opponent has to split his fire when shooting them. Also, since you have different weapons on them, you can shoot them with better effect at whichever squad needs to be hit with that particular weapon. Deffkoptaz are FANTASTIC, since they're jetbikes, they're really fast if they don't shoot, they can fly over other models and terrain, and their 2 wounds and ability to jink(get a 4+ cover save in exchange for hitting on 6s instead of 5s with shooting next match) makes them very tough. The most important reason to run them separate though, is because of leadership. A unit doesn't need to take a morale check if they only consist of one model!

I wouldn't run a big mek. That 95 points could go into a Warboss with Pklaw and Da Dead Shiny Shoota, a 6 shot shoota, and 'eavy armor, for a 4+ save. You now have a pretty beefy guy that can kick some serious butt in melee and brings alot of shooting to a squad of boyz. If you have any trukks I would recommend bringing one and putting the warboss and a squad of boyz in it.

I would drop one boyz squad for the points. And give the warboss' squad sluggas to make them cheaper wounds to absorb fire while the boss gets into melee. With the 70 points for the dropped shoota boyz squad, and the 10 from dropping shootaz, you have enough for a trukk with Ram(you want this, immobilizing your trukk sucks, and being able to slam your trukk into enemy light vehicles is hilarious.) and a boss nob with a TL shoota, power klaw, and a bosspole on your warboss. You now have 2 deadly powerklaws as well as kan klaws that your enemy has to contend with, and since it's a king of the hill game, melee is gonna be really important. If you don't have a trukk, just run a third deffkopta since it's only 5 points cheaper, and you can use the 5 points for Cybork body on your warboss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and let me know how you do, I like to help out new players, lemme know if you have any questions. I realize I just gave you half a novel to read lol, I tried to simplify things and explain stuff a bit. Oh and how big is the table you're using? Because if it's like, 4x4 trukks may not be really all that necessary. They're still really good though. Only Fast(fast vehicles are better at getting up the board) transport in the game that I know of. They're damn flimsy, but that shouldn't be a problem vs Daemons(again, not much shooting.)

Yes, run the Deffkoptas solo. You could attach the Big Mek to them because he's an Independent Character, but you are better off letting them fly solo and Jink when they get shot at. I agree a Warboss would be more deadly than a Big Mek. Shootas aren't bad, but I generally prefer Sluggas in low points games. Not sure if you have any other models, so give it a try and let us know how it goes. Feel free to ask lots of questions. We're happy to help here.

For the sake of reference, here's my current 500 points list:
Warboss (PK, BP, 'eavy Armor, Free Shoota)
22 Slugga Boyz (Nob, PK, BP, Free Shoota)
22 Slugga Boyz (Nob, PK, BP, Free Shoota)
3 Kannons (2 Ammo Runt)
=499

Good luck, young Warboss!

 Nalydyn wrote:
Deffkoptaz are not vehicles, and he cannot fix them. He can fix the kanz, and since they're pretty big, just stick him behind them and he can fix them. What's really nice is that in a 500 point game there's not much that will hurt AV11 at range.

HOWEVER, daemons don't usually bring much in the way of shooting, so your KFF may be totally pointless, it depends on what your opponent usually fields. Grot oilers are ok... But may be wasted points since your Kanz are the only things that can be repaired, and with only 2 hull points a piece they're not very hard to knock down. Also, run your kanz as single models, I'd go one with rokkit, one with Bshoota, they can go after different targets, and are the ONLY vehicles in the game that actually worry about morale checks. Single ones don't though, much better.

Run the deffkoptaz as individual units, then they can zoom around and your opponent has to split his fire when shooting them. Also, since you have different weapons on them, you can shoot them with better effect at whichever squad needs to be hit with that particular weapon. Deffkoptaz are FANTASTIC, since they're jetbikes, they're really fast if they don't shoot, they can fly over other models and terrain, and their 2 wounds and ability to jink(get a 4+ cover save in exchange for hitting on 6s instead of 5s with shooting next match) makes them very tough. The most important reason to run them separate though, is because of leadership. A unit doesn't need to take a morale check if they only consist of one model!

I wouldn't run a big mek. That 95 points could go into a Warboss with Pklaw and Da Dead Shiny Shoota, a 6 shot shoota, and 'eavy armor, for a 4+ save. You now have a pretty beefy guy that can kick some serious butt in melee and brings alot of shooting to a squad of boyz. If you have any trukks I would recommend bringing one and putting the warboss and a squad of boyz in it.

I would drop one boyz squad for the points. And give the warboss' squad sluggas to make them cheaper wounds to absorb fire while the boss gets into melee. With the 70 points for the dropped shoota boyz squad, and the 10 from dropping shootaz, you have enough for a trukk with Ram(you want this, immobilizing your trukk sucks, and being able to slam your trukk into enemy light vehicles is hilarious.) and a boss nob with a TL shoota, power klaw, and a bosspole on your warboss. You now have 2 deadly powerklaws as well as kan klaws that your enemy has to contend with, and since it's a king of the hill game, melee is gonna be really important. If you don't have a trukk, just run a third deffkopta since it's only 5 points cheaper, and you can use the 5 points for Cybork body on your warboss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and let me know how you do, I like to help out new players, lemme know if you have any questions. I realize I just gave you half a novel to read lol, I tried to simplify things and explain stuff a bit. Oh and how big is the table you're using? Because if it's like, 4x4 trukks may not be really all that necessary. They're still really good though. Only Fast(fast vehicles are better at getting up the board) transport in the game that I know of. They're damn flimsy, but that shouldn't be a problem vs Daemons(again, not much shooting.)

Hey mate, thanks for the reply! I love reading long comments, so no problem there! You're absolutely right in changing the Big Mek, having support when I could have a big offensive unit is a no brainer. Besides, I had totally forgotten that most of his units are melee. So now that I'm changing the Big Mek for a Warboss, I wanted to ask a few questions. I already split the Deffkopta and Kan squads into singles, but I still have the Boyz to contend with. It says I need an HQ and 3 troops, so I'm forced to keep the three squads of Boyz unless I'm missing some rule. Right now I downgraded all the squads, they have Sluggaz instead of Shootaz, which brings my point total to 438 once I replace the Big Mek with my new Warlord- Boss Zagstruk. I chose him because he has the Feel No Pain perk (not sure what that is, but for just 5 more points than a Warboss he sounds good) and he's a Bellowing Tyrant, which is excellent for when I'm in melee. What else should I pick out? I'm thinking of adding another single Deffkopta and giving Zagstruk's Boyz a Trukk so he can get to the center quick while one or two Koptas guard him.

 urbanknight4 wrote:

Hey mate, thanks for the reply! I love reading long comments, so no problem there! You're absolutely right in changing the Big Mek, having support when I could have a big offensive unit is a no brainer. Besides, I had totally forgotten that most of his units are melee. So now that I'm changing the Big Mek for a Warboss, I wanted to ask a few questions. I already split the Deffkopta and Kan squads into singles, but I still have the Boyz to contend with. It says I need an HQ and 3 troops, so I'm forced to keep the three squads of Boyz unless I'm missing some rule. Right now I downgraded all the squads, they have Sluggaz instead of Shootaz, which brings my point total to 438 once I replace the Big Mek with my new Warlord- Boss Zagstruk. I chose him because he has the Feel No Pain perk (not sure what that is, but for just 5 more points than a Warboss he sounds good) and he's a Bellowing Tyrant, which is excellent for when I'm in melee. What else should I pick out? I'm thinking of adding another single Deffkopta and giving Zagstruk's Boyz a Trukk so he can get to the center quick while one or two Koptas guard him.

urbanknight4, do you have a copy of the main rulebook? It describes Feel No Pain. It's a chance to ignore an unsaved wound on a 5+. Zagstruk has Cybork Body, which is only Feel No Pain on a 6+. 1 HQ and 3 Troops? Sounds like the Ork Horde detachment. You don't have to take that, you could just take a normal Combined Arms Detachment from the main rulebook. That's 1 HQ 2 Troops minimum.

 Cleatus wrote:

 urbanknight4 wrote:

Hey mate, thanks for the reply! I love reading long comments, so no problem there! You're absolutely right in changing the Big Mek, having support when I could have a big offensive unit is a no brainer. Besides, I had totally forgotten that most of his units are melee. So now that I'm changing the Big Mek for a Warboss, I wanted to ask a few questions. I already split the Deffkopta and Kan squads into singles, but I still have the Boyz to contend with. It says I need an HQ and 3 troops, so I'm forced to keep the three squads of Boyz unless I'm missing some rule. Right now I downgraded all the squads, they have Sluggaz instead of Shootaz, which brings my point total to 438 once I replace the Big Mek with my new Warlord- Boss Zagstruk. I chose him because he has the Feel No Pain perk (not sure what that is, but for just 5 more points than a Warboss he sounds good) and he's a Bellowing Tyrant, which is excellent for when I'm in melee. What else should I pick out? I'm thinking of adding another single Deffkopta and giving Zagstruk's Boyz a Trukk so he can get to the center quick while one or two Koptas guard him.

urbanknight4, do you have a copy of the main rulebook? It describes Feel No Pain. It's a chance to ignore an unsaved wound on a 5+. Zagstruk has Cybork Body, which is only Feel No Pain on a 6+. 1 HQ and 3 Troops? Sounds like the Ork Horde detachment. You don't have to take that, you could just take a normal Combined Arms Detachment from the main rulebook. That's 1 HQ 2 Troops minimum.

Hey, thanks for that. I totally forgot to read the rulebook in depth. I changed Zagstruk to a Warboss with a Power Klaw and a Kombi-weapon with a rokkit launcha and 'eavy armor. He'll be leading a squad of Slugga Boyz and will have a Trukk with a ram as a transport so I can get him to melee quick in the center. The other Boyz squad carry Shootaz. While I'm not sure what a Nob does, but I guess he's alright since I gave him a Power Klaw, so he's leading the Shoota Boyz. That leaves me at 460 points, so maybe I can add another Deffkopta? What do you think?

 urbanknight4 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:

 urbanknight4 wrote:

Hey mate, thanks for the reply! I love reading long comments, so no problem there! You're absolutely right in changing the Big Mek, having support when I could have a big offensive unit is a no brainer. Besides, I had totally forgotten that most of his units are melee. So now that I'm changing the Big Mek for a Warboss, I wanted to ask a few questions. I already split the Deffkopta and Kan squads into singles, but I still have the Boyz to contend with. It says I need an HQ and 3 troops, so I'm forced to keep the three squads of Boyz unless I'm missing some rule. Right now I downgraded all the squads, they have Sluggaz instead of Shootaz, which brings my point total to 438 once I replace the Big Mek with my new Warlord- Boss Zagstruk. I chose him because he has the Feel No Pain perk (not sure what that is, but for just 5 more points than a Warboss he sounds good) and he's a Bellowing Tyrant, which is excellent for when I'm in melee. What else should I pick out? I'm thinking of adding another single Deffkopta and giving Zagstruk's Boyz a Trukk so he can get to the center quick while one or two Koptas guard him.

urbanknight4, do you have a copy of the main rulebook? It describes Feel No Pain. It's a chance to ignore an unsaved wound on a 5+. Zagstruk has Cybork Body, which is only Feel No Pain on a 6+. 1 HQ and 3 Troops? Sounds like the Ork Horde detachment. You don't have to take that, you could just take a normal Combined Arms Detachment from the main rulebook. That's 1 HQ 2 Troops minimum.

Hey, thanks for that. I totally forgot to read the rulebook in depth. I changed Zagstruk to a Warboss with a Power Klaw and a Kombi-weapon with a rokkit launcha and 'eavy armor. He'll be leading a squad of Slugga Boyz and will have a Trukk with a ram as a transport so I can get him to melee quick in the center. The other Boyz squad carry Shootaz. While I'm not sure what a Nob does, but I guess he's alright since I gave him a Power Klaw, so he's leading the Shoota Boyz. That leaves me at 460 points, so maybe I can add another Deffkopta? What do you think?

A Nob is basically a leadership buff, and a platform to move power claws around and eat things. an ork Sargent, of sorts. Beyond that, can you fit a lucky stick onto your warboss? if so, that might be useful in low point games.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 urbanknight4 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:

 urbanknight4 wrote:

Hey mate, thanks for the reply! I love reading long comments, so no problem there! You're absolutely right in changing the Big Mek, having support when I could have a big offensive unit is a no brainer. Besides, I had totally forgotten that most of his units are melee. So now that I'm changing the Big Mek for a Warboss, I wanted to ask a few questions. I already split the Deffkopta and Kan squads into singles, but I still have the Boyz to contend with. It says I need an HQ and 3 troops, so I'm forced to keep the three squads of Boyz unless I'm missing some rule. Right now I downgraded all the squads, they have Sluggaz instead of Shootaz, which brings my point total to 438 once I replace the Big Mek with my new Warlord- Boss Zagstruk. I chose him because he has the Feel No Pain perk (not sure what that is, but for just 5 more points than a Warboss he sounds good) and he's a Bellowing Tyrant, which is excellent for when I'm in melee. What else should I pick out? I'm thinking of adding another single Deffkopta and giving Zagstruk's Boyz a Trukk so he can get to the center quick while one or two Koptas guard him.

urbanknight4, do you have a copy of the main rulebook? It describes Feel No Pain. It's a chance to ignore an unsaved wound on a 5+. Zagstruk has Cybork Body, which is only Feel No Pain on a 6+. 1 HQ and 3 Troops? Sounds like the Ork Horde detachment. You don't have to take that, you could just take a normal Combined Arms Detachment from the main rulebook. That's 1 HQ 2 Troops minimum.

Hey, thanks for that. I totally forgot to read the rulebook in depth. I changed Zagstruk to a Warboss with a Power Klaw and a Kombi-weapon with a rokkit launcha and 'eavy armor. He'll be leading a squad of Slugga Boyz and will have a Trukk with a ram as a transport so I can get him to melee quick in the center. The other Boyz squad carry Shootaz. While I'm not sure what a Nob does, but I guess he's alright since I gave him a Power Klaw, so he's leading the Shoota Boyz. That leaves me at 460 points, so maybe I can add another Deffkopta? What do you think?

A Nob is basically a leadership buff, and a platform to move power claws around and eat things. an ork Sargent, of sorts. Beyond that, can you fit a lucky stick onto your warboss? if so, that might be useful in low point games.

I added a Finkin' Cap since I used up the other points for a third Deffkopta. I now have a full 500 points:

HQ: 104 pts

Warboss (+'Eavy Armor, Kombi-Weapon w/ Rokkit Launcha, Power Klaw, Da Finkin' Kap)

Troops: 206 pts

10x Boyz (+Shootas, Boss Nob w/ Power Klaw)
10x Boyz (+Trukk w/ Ram, Rokkit Launcha)

Fast Attack: 90 pts

Deffkopta
Deffkopta
Deffkopta (+ Rokkit Launcha)

Heavy Support: 100 pts

Killa Kan
Killa Kan (+ Rokkit Launcha)

It bears saying that the Slugga Boyz with the Trukk will be riding with the Warboss and will be my melee unit. There will be one or two Koptas supporting them while the rest of the army goes for secondary objectives. I'm worried that he'll bring a Hellbrute or something- what can I kill that with?
Oh, and last question. Once my Boyz and Warlord disembark from the Trukk, can the Trukk continue shooting? Like, I want it to provide support with its Rokkit Launcha while the enemy closes in.

 urbanknight4 wrote:

I added a Finkin' Cap since I used up the other points for a third Deffkopta. I now have a full 500 points:

HQ: 104 pts

Warboss (+'Eavy Armor, Kombi-Weapon w/ Rokkit Launcha, Power Klaw, Da Finkin' Kap)

Troops: 206 pts

10x Boyz (+Shootas, Boss Nob w/ Power Klaw)
10x Boyz (+Trukk w/ Ram, Rokkit Launcha)

Fast Attack: 90 pts

Deffkopta
Deffkopta
Deffkopta (+ Rokkit Launcha)

Heavy Support: 100 pts

Killa Kan
Killa Kan (+ Rokkit Launcha)

It bears saying that the Slugga Boyz with the Trukk will be riding with the Warboss and will be my melee unit. There will be one or two Koptas supporting them while the rest of the army goes for secondary objectives. I'm worried that he'll bring a Hellbrute or something- what can I kill that with?
Oh, and last question. Once my Boyz and Warlord disembark from the Trukk, can the Trukk continue shooting? Like, I want it to provide support with its Rokkit Launcha while the enemy closes in.

Helbrute: Use those lovely Twin-Linked Rokkits on your Deffkoptas! Turbo Boost past him, then target his rear armor. Failing that, Power Klaws. Standard procedure for most vehicles.
BTW, take Rokkits on all your koptas. They're free, after all, and Orks usually struggle with fielding enough high-strength shots.
Yes, the Trukk can fire its Big Shoota or Rokkit in the Shooting phase.
The kombi-weapon for the Warboss: the rokkit is one-use only, but the Shoota you can use every turn. Keep that in mind.

 Cleatus wrote:

 urbanknight4 wrote:

I added a Finkin' Cap since I used up the other points for a third Deffkopta. I now have a full 500 points:

HQ: 104 pts

Warboss (+'Eavy Armor, Kombi-Weapon w/ Rokkit Launcha, Power Klaw, Da Finkin' Kap)

Troops: 206 pts

10x Boyz (+Shootas, Boss Nob w/ Power Klaw)
10x Boyz (+Trukk w/ Ram, Rokkit Launcha)

Fast Attack: 90 pts

Deffkopta
Deffkopta
Deffkopta (+ Rokkit Launcha)

Heavy Support: 100 pts

Killa Kan
Killa Kan (+ Rokkit Launcha)

It bears saying that the Slugga Boyz with the Trukk will be riding with the Warboss and will be my melee unit. There will be one or two Koptas supporting them while the rest of the army goes for secondary objectives. I'm worried that he'll bring a Hellbrute or something- what can I kill that with?
Oh, and last question. Once my Boyz and Warlord disembark from the Trukk, can the Trukk continue shooting? Like, I want it to provide support with its Rokkit Launcha while the enemy closes in.

Helbrute: Use those lovely Twin-Linked Rokkits on your Deffkoptas! Turbo Boost past him, then target his rear armor. Failing that, Power Klaws. Standard procedure for most vehicles.
BTW, take Rokkits on all your koptas. They're free, after all, and Orks usually struggle with fielding enough high-strength shots.
Yes, the Trukk can fire its Big Shoota or Rokkit in the Shooting phase.
The kombi-weapon for the Warboss: the rokkit is one-use only, but the Shoota you can use every turn. Keep that in mind.

Thanks for all your help! I'll be having the game in a few hours! When it's over I'll come back with a battle report!

Glad I could help. Ya I would have not recommended zaggstrukk. He's ok if you put him with a unit of stormboyz with his str8 AP2 hammer of wrath(free hit when he charges into melee) but other than that kinda lackluster. Standard warboss comes with toughness and str 5 which is pretty amazing, and an extra wound, which is always good.

For fighting a helbrute, rokkits work well, but your warboss' powerklaw should be your go to. Its strength 10, so you only need to roll a 2 to do a hull point of damage if you hit. But DO NOT charge your warboss into melee with a helbrute on his own. You need the boyz there to eat his helbrute's attacks. They're also strength 10, and can instantly kill your warboss.

As for da finkin kap... It's ok. Extra warlord traits are always solid, but in this low points game, I'd say da dead shiny shoota and cybork body will serve you better for 10 points. I mean the strategic traits are sometimes useless, depending on what you get. Stealth ruins is good, but rerolling reserve rolls simply doesn't apply.

 Nalydyn wrote:
Glad I could help. Ya I would have not recommended zaggstrukk. He's ok if you put him with a unit of stormboyz with his str8 AP2 hammer of wrath(free hit when he charges into melee) but other than that kinda lackluster. Standard warboss comes with toughness and str 5 which is pretty amazing, and an extra wound, which is always good.

For fighting a helbrute, rokkits work well, but your warboss' powerklaw should be your go to. Its strength 10, so you only need to roll a 2 to do a hull point of damage if you hit. But DO NOT charge your warboss into melee with a helbrute on his own. You need the boyz there to eat his helbrute's attacks. They're also strength 10, and can instantly kill your warboss.

As for da finkin kap... It's ok. Extra warlord traits are always solid, but in this low points game, I'd say da dead shiny shoota and cybork body will serve you better for 10 points. I mean the strategic traits are sometimes useless, depending on what you get. Stealth ruins is good, but rerolling reserve rolls simply doesn't apply.

I will attack using my Warboss and his Boyz squad together, but if I didn't would that really matter? If I use a Warboss and Boyz squad to attack a Hellbrute, can't he just target my Warboss and kill him instead of wasting time killing cannon fodder?

He targets your unit, you allocate the wounds to anyone who is in base contact. So have the boys take all the wounds they can! ANd try and get in close to charge so lots of your boyz get into contact, not just a few. Helbrutes get to go first, so you need that str10 Power Klaw to survive!

 Nalydyn wrote:
He targets your unit, you allocate the wounds to anyone who is in base contact. So have the boys take all the wounds they can! ANd try and get in close to charge so lots of your boyz get into contact, not just a few. Helbrutes get to go first, so you need that str10 Power Klaw to survive!

What about a Big Choppa? Is that still alright? And I'm still not sure why adding a Boss Nob to a Boyz squad is a good thing- seems to me that it's a lot of expense just for another weapon. I mean, he's not better than the Boyz at any stat or anything...

He is actually. Nobs have an extra wound, and are strength 4, initiative 3(not a big deal, but good for helping to avoid being blinded) AND get an extra attack, and he can take the all-important bosspole. If you have a nob in the squad without a warboss, you want to give him a bosspole over everything else. The reroll on the Mob Rule table is critical on 10man squads of boyz.

Big choppas are good, if you can't afford a Pklaw for your nob, a big choppa and shoota are a great alternative. The AP5 doesn't come in very useful but will mulch cultists, guardsmen, and other light infantry. But the +2STR is AWESOME. For 5 points you make your nob strength 7 on the charge, since he has furious charge. This means that he can glance all but the toughest vehicles. He can actually penetrate a helbrute's armor, even if it's not immobilized. And if you manage to immobilize it on your boss nob's initiative, hilariously, your regular boyz will actually swing at its rear armor, which means they'll glance on a 6.

Anyways, boss nobz are almost always an amazing idea. Moreso on smaller squads where you really need that reroll on Mob Rule, but also in big squads where they can survive while they footslog up the field and then deliver some attacks with actual power rather than str4 slaps that the regular boyz bring.