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Okay, bit of context. I liked Halo 4. I think it had some issues, mostly to do with gameplay and a fairly weak supporting cast with an underwhelming villain. However I gave 343 a lot of goodwill because of how things went with Cortana and Chief. I thought it was pretty good and managed to be heartfelt at times. So in the run up to Halo 5 Guardians I was really excited to see where they took the story. I had an image in my head about what was going to happen based on trailers, basically that there was going to be a major conflict between Chief and the UNSC (personified by Locke) regarding resurrecting/bringing back Cortana. The end product though was really less than satisfying on a lot of fronts; in fact I'd probably say its one of the worst Halo games.

Theres basically 2 broad reasons why I think the campaign doesn't work. The first is Locke, the second is Cortana.


Locke -

The problem with Locke is that even though he has 80% of the missions he is not truly the main character and his connection to the main story of the game is really tenuous. Take Halo 2. We needed the Arbiters perspective to understand the Covenant Civil War. The Arbiters perspective makes this a personal drama of revenge and betrayal that's pretty central to Halo 2, as it establishes the elites alliance with the UNSC; all the while setting the stage for Halo 3. You simply couldn't have made Halo 2s story work without the Arbiter. The same is not true for Locke.

So it really comes down to what Halo 5 Guardians is about. The trailers portrayed this as a personal conflict between Chief and Locke. This really never happens. Locke never views CHief as a traitor and Chief never really identifies Locke as a threat. In fact their one encounter he really regards him as a nuisance. Chief is completely focused on his mission. So theres no personal drama and chief is never a traitor to the UNSC. He never works against the UNSC and his actions never directly or indirectly aid Cortana; which I had been convinced was the direction they would go. That a villainous/mind controlled Cortana would be manipulating Chief into helping her. But again this never actually transpires. Locke is pretty much on a rescue mission, and a pretty boring one at that.

Its boring because it becomes very obvious that the focus of Halo 5 is the revelation that Cortana is the main villain. Now I really don't understand 343's thinking over this. Most people generally liked the stuff with Chief/Cortana in Halo 4. They then do a game which focuses on Cortana's return; but they then decide to give over most of the game to a new character. This really wastes the dynamic. To Chief, having Cortana as an enemy after losing her is pretty soul crushing and almost brilliant in how it subverts the expectation that Chief is gonna save her. But to Locke, shes just a crazy power mad AI. This really shows in the final mission with Osiris when Cortana interacts with Locke and his team. Lockes perspective just doesn't contribute anything to this turn of events.

Not only that but when we finally get to Gensis as Chief (a brilliant mission BTW) and speak to Cortana I can vividly remember just jettisoning any interest in where Lockes story was or his troubles. You go to this really beautiful planet and are searching for Cortana all the while Guardians assemble and errily look down on you like an ant. It all feels very ominous. I know a lot of people didn't like Blue Team but theres actually some neat little snippets of dialogue with Kelly and Fred. Then Cortana speaks with you and its all very heartfelt. Then you realise somethings up with this warden guy and that Cortana is insane. She then tries to bribe you with Phaetons and play nice. Its a great mission. But it wraps up and we are about to enter the Domain and get to speak with Cortana to try and convince her to stop this madness....we go back to Locke.

This was the point where it finally clicked that Locke was just a filler character. We spend five missions fighting Covenant remnants in a convoluted plot where nothings at stake (the arbiter has really already won at this point) and by now I knew that none of this was relevant to the main plot. It was painfully obvious that this was just filler and I kept wanting the missions to end so that I could get back Chief and Cortana. But the icing on the cake is when we finally link up with Chief and Locke gets to say the warning that Cortana's evil Chief simply turns around and says "I know.". This was such a facepalm moment for me. I couldn't believe 343 had the balls to have made so much material about a character whose story even they themselves don't consider important or central and admit that he really doesn't need to be in this game.

Aside from the final mission, Locke literally has nothing to do and his presence means that they had less time to develop Blue Team. Personally I wouldn't have minded a game just focusing on Chief adventuring with a rogue blue team in a search for Cortana like we saw in the first trailer when Chief is wearing the tattered robes. Clearly the folks at 343 were unwilling to advance the plot beyond Cortana unleashing her army of Guardians on the galaxy and yet equally recognised that this would risk being a little boring and uninvolved. So they basically tacked on this new guy and an adventure to the Elite homeworld I think this was a terrible mistake and some of the marketing for the game borders on outright misleading; which I think will really damage peoples perception of the company going forward.


Cortana -

Don't get me wrong. It is a brilliant plot twist. You really build the sympathy for this character for Halo 4 and have Chief want nothing more than to bring her back; only to twist that on its head as she comes back as an epically powerful threat to the galaxy. Its the perfect fallen hero scenario, you have this well established dynamic between the hero and now villain with Chief choosing duty over love; plus it sets off a perfect redemption arc.

All that sounds great on paper if you're scribbling down a few notes like I am here. But 343 really screwed up with implementing this story.

The biggest reason is that they basically outright tell you Cortana is the main villain and most of her plans at the start of the game. We get told at the start of mission 3 that shes inside the Domain and controlling the Guardians. Then, Locke learns that the Warden serves Cortana, that the Promethiums don't attack Chief and through Sloan that Cortana intends for the AI to take over. All of this is revealed before Cortana speaks to Chief for the first time where they have what should be an emotional reunion on Genesis. Theres no effort to build mystery or to surprise the player. This really hurts what they're trying to accomplish. As Chief, I should want to get Cortana back, but if you've already told me that's a bad idea then I am not going to really want to do it and if I don't want Cortana back then I am not gonna feel crushed when she turns on Chief at the end.

Secondly, Cortana's motivation for turning evil is never explained. Worse is that Chief never actually asks this question. If my friend starts going crazy I ask them "whats wrong" not "what are you going to do next". But Cortana acts pretty power mad and crazy in this. Its a huge character change from a very benevolent and empathetic person whos reduced to tears at a few people being composed in Halo 4...to a woman who wants to a put a Composer into a Halo ring and do that to an aweful lot more people than the Didact. If they had tried to have Cortana explain why she so adamantly believes that forcing peace on the galaxy no matter the cost is a great idea, a bit like in Halo: Legends where Cortana laments the endless cycles of slaughter humans did to eachother. Obviously Cortana is wrong and we shouldn't approve of what shes doing but there needs to be an explanation given for why she changed between Halo 4 and Halo 5. Without that the whole situation feels forced and unnatural that nobody is asking this question. Even if its meant to be a mystery revealed in Halo 6, there really should still be character like Chief asking this question and there just aren't.

Also, some of her dialogue is little bit too cheesy. I mean, yes, it is very difficult to deal with the absurdity of your pixie sized AI assistant becoming an AI goddess who threatens the galaxy. But in the final mission there was once or twice where I was genuinely convinced the voice actress was taking the piss. Like bits when shes being sassy with Team Osiris. Shes trying to kill them! I get the impression that they want to have fun with the idea of Cortana as a villain but that kind of undermines itself because we don't want Cortana to be a villain and we're also meant to take her seriously as a threat.


So, to wrap up, Halo 5 is basically a filler game. You could have put Chiefs missions out as a DLC "True ending" for Halo 4 and I don't think most people would have batted an eyelid. Locke is completely superfluous to the plot and a very boring character. The game feels more like a promo for Halo 6 than a full game and this leaves its cliffhanger ending feeling undeserved. I also think they mishandled Cortana turning to a villain and their failure there in particular leaves me very doubtful about 343's story making capabilities; especially with where they're obviously going to take Halo 6.

In Halo 4, it looked like they were setting Halsey up to be the villain in the next game (or strongly connected to the villain). I haven't seen any of the non-game setting material, but I've heard bits and pieces to suggest that some of the new stuff that came out around then was also pushing the "Halsey is bad!" line. I'm now wondering if 343 caught a backlash on that, and in a fit of panic decided that Cortana (who was derived from Halsey) would be the new villain instead.

I was surprised by how quickly they dropped Halsey serving the Covenant and wanting revenge on the UNSC. She now seems to want redemption.

If you re referring to the intro section of Guardians where Halsey says that Locke will be ordered to "kill us both". I have no idea what all of that was about. Maybe it refers to something that will happen involving Cortana/Chief in a future game. But after they really backed out of the idea of Chief going rogue and making the UNSC the antagonists I d be very surprised if they chose to go down that road later on. Although, really, a major source of conflict should exist between Chief and the UNSC over Cortana. Chief will never kill Cortana but the UNSC would realistically want to destroy her after this point; regardless of if the character redeems herself later on.

I think they always planned to make Cortana the villain. The Librarian mentions that Cortana was part of her plan for John as the Reclaimer. In fact it's very likely that she was intended to control the Forerunner technology like she is doing now; but by helping John and all life in general; not galactic domination. So her staying dead was never going to happen. It also means and I think it's fairly obvious that aside from focusing on the mantle and the reclaimer stuff it's largely a romance between Chief and Cortana. So I think they did plan out the broad strokes of what they wanted to do across te Reclaimer Saga.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
So her staying dead was never going to happen.

My theory a while back was that Halo 5 was going to involve Master Chief trying to reach Halsey to get help for Cortana before the UNSC tracked Halsey down, and Halsey ultimately sacrificing her life to revive Cortana (among other reasons).


In any event, Microsoft is probably making very sure that 343 has plans to "fix" Cortana. After all, Microsoft's counterpart to Siri is named after the AI. And Microsoft wouldn't want their assistant to be named after an evil AI. That'd be kind of like naming your assistant 'Skynet'.

^^;;

Halsey may betray the UNSC in Halo 6, but they wasted her potential as M'dama ally (And they killed M'dama in a cutscene... Seriously ?).

They advertised the game on MC/Locke conflict and let us wonder whether one will eventually kill the other. None of this happened.

I feel the plot was drastically changed mid-way through development, for whatever reason. What a waste of good story material.

(This, and nothing about the Floods, seen clearly in Halo Evolution aboard the Spirit of Fire. They probably will attack Cortana in Halo 6, considering they were "conceived" to wreck the forerunners and test Humanity, the true Precursor's heirs)

To be fair, the reason for cortana going nutjob is kinda obvious. She's past her due date. She's gone rampant, all AI do that.

 Soladrin wrote:
To be fair, the reason for cortana going nutjob is kinda obvious. She's past her due date. She's gone rampant, all AI do that.

It's mentioned frequently in the non-game material. But I don't think it was ever mentioned within the games themselves. The closest that they ever got to that was Cortana's comment in Halo 4 about having outlived an AI's normal life span.

And iirc, the nutjob aspects were supposed to reveal themselves through ending up devoting so much processing power to new and different things that they ended up ignoring the AI equivalent of things like breathing. i.e. the longer an AI lived, the more likely it would be to accidentally kill itself through inattention to basic functions.

Eumerin wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:
To be fair, the reason for cortana going nutjob is kinda obvious. She's past her due date. She's gone rampant, all AI do that.

It's mentioned frequently in the non-game material. But I don't think it was ever mentioned within the games themselves. The closest that they ever got to that was Cortana's comment in Halo 4 about having outlived an AI's normal life span.

And iirc, the nutjob aspects were supposed to reveal themselves through ending up devoting so much processing power to new and different things that they ended up ignoring the AI equivalent of things like breathing. i.e. the longer an AI lived, the more likely it would be to accidentally kill itself through inattention to basic functions.

True but then there's also AI who start copying themselves infinitely to keep things going... with some bad consequences. Cortana has that copying code in her since she's already used it.

 LethalShade wrote:
Halsey may betray the UNSC in Halo 6, but they wasted her potential as M'dama ally (And they killed M'dama in a cutscene... Seriously ?).

I was so pleased with that cutscene.

They advertised the game on MC/Locke conflict and let us wonder whether one will eventually kill the other. None of this happened.
I feel the plot was drastically changed mid-way through development, for whatever reason. What a waste of good story material.

Or maybe they kept that going to really screw with people?

The last live action teaser they did, with Osiris getting activated to go after Blue Team and the voiceover about how the Chief is "causing the awakenings"(of the Guardians) suggested that higher-ups thought that was the case, not that Osiris themselves did. I feel like that last one was the best at giving us an actual idea as to what the plot was going to be, not the early stuff.

Eumerin wrote:
In any event, Microsoft is probably making very sure that 343 has plans to "fix" Cortana. After all, Microsoft's counterpart to Siri is named after the AI. And Microsoft wouldn't want their assistant to be named after an evil AI. That'd be kind of like naming your assistant 'Skynet'.

Mind=blow. I never made the connection.

As an aside, this whole lady goes nuclear for greater good thing seems strangely Starcraftey. And I mean the new Starcrafts, not the old ones.

Eumerin wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:
To be fair, the reason for cortana going nutjob is kinda obvious. She's past her due date. She's gone rampant, all AI do that.

It's mentioned frequently in the non-game material. But I don't think it was ever mentioned within the games themselves. The closest that they ever got to that was Cortana's comment in Halo 4 about having outlived an AI's normal life span.

And iirc, the nutjob aspects were supposed to reveal themselves through ending up devoting so much processing power to new and different things that they ended up ignoring the AI equivalent of things like breathing. i.e. the longer an AI lived, the more likely it would be to accidentally kill itself through inattention to basic functions.

Its even mentioned in Halo 5. I do love how Cortana wants to protect John just like the Doctor.

I'm kind of surprised (and glad) Cortana was made a villain. I've only played chronologically up to 3, and a bit of 4, but I thought they were really going to remove Cortana after the ending of 4.

I don't know. I'm a bit skeptical about the new story arc entirely, but I think having Cortana go insane and become the villain is a pretty good move. Especially after 3, when their friendship was firmly established by Chief willingly going into the infested High Charity to recover her, and 4, when Cortana started to deteriorate throughout the game (I think).

See I thought they might use rampancy as the McGuffin excuse for her going crazy.

But, although she is a complete megalomaniac and power crazy; as well as a little detached from reality by believing that people aren't going to resist her taking over the galaxy. I don't find the portrayal consistent with rampancy. In Halo 4 Cortana could barely think or function and seemed to suffer from split personalities; suffering from random breakdowns. But this Cortana seems consistent and more collected; shes not for example alternating between being peaceful and violent. Also certain physical features of being rampant are absent. For example her physical form would flicker and she would glow red. Neither of these features is present in the interactions with Cortana in Halo 5.

Plus theres also the fact that Cortana explains that she has cured herself of rampancy by using the Forerunner Domain. At first I did wonder if she was mistaken/ in denial about this fact. But given that no other character seriously makes this connection, that so many AI take her at her word that shes cured their short life span and the piece of intel where a Forerunner confirms that she (the Ancilla) is "curing itself" within the Domain. I can only conclude that shes not suffering from rampancy.

I think its one of four things

* Cortana's rampancy was not fully cured as its mentioned in Halo 4 that she needed to have her personality (restored?) by linking with Dr Halsey. It could be that Cortana is physically cured but not fully mentally and that these scars have left lasting damage.

* Cortana was changed due to interacting with the Domain which has altered her perspective of things.

* She somehow merged with the Didact/ is being manipulated/ controlled by a composed Didact.

* She has the logic plague from the Gravemind and is the unwitting pawn of the Flood.

Another weird thing. Apparently she has been heard humming the same way Guilty Spark did in the legendary ending I think? Not saying Guilty Spark could be a part of this, since he's already been destroyed, but maybe some other form of control? Either that or maybe she's going down the same road Spark did.

 SkavenLord wrote:
Another weird thing. Apparently she has been heard humming the same way Guilty Spark did in the legendary ending I think? Not saying Guilty Spark could be a part of this, since he's already been destroyed, but maybe some other form of control? Either that or maybe she's going down the same road Spark did.

Exuberant Witness for new resident AI in Halo 6?

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
See I thought they might use rampancy as the McGuffin excuse for her going crazy.

But, although she is a complete megalomaniac and power crazy; as well as a little detached from reality by believing that people aren't going to resist her taking over the galaxy. I don't find the portrayal consistent with rampancy. In Halo 4 Cortana could barely think or function and seemed to suffer from split personalities; suffering from random breakdowns. But this Cortana seems consistent and more collected; shes not for example alternating between being peaceful and violent. Also certain physical features of being rampant are absent. For example her physical form would flicker and she would glow red. Neither of these features is present in the interactions with Cortana in Halo 5.

Plus theres also the fact that Cortana explains that she has cured herself of rampancy by using the Forerunner Domain. At first I did wonder if she was mistaken/ in denial about this fact. But given that no other character seriously makes this connection, that so many AI take her at her word that shes cured their short life span and the piece of intel where a Forerunner confirms that she (the Ancilla) is "curing itself" within the Domain. I can only conclude that shes not suffering from rampancy.

I think its one of four things

* Cortana's rampancy was not fully cured as its mentioned in Halo 4 that she needed to have her personality (restored?) by linking with Dr Halsey. It could be that Cortana is physically cured but not fully mentally and that these scars have left lasting damage.

* Cortana was changed due to interacting with the Domain which has altered her perspective of things.

* She somehow merged with the Didact/ is being manipulated/ controlled by a composed Didact.

* She has the logic plague from the Gravemind and is the unwitting pawn of the Flood.

She just attained Meta-Stability, making her a real sentient being, and got corrupted by power like anyone else can ?

I really, really loved Halo 4. That game went a long way to assuring me that the franchise was in good hands with 343 Industries. I loved the Tron-esque theme of the Forerunners, they were a blast to fight, and it was so nice not having to wade through Flood. The campaign had excellent pacing, looked gorgeous, and had some very touching moments with Chief and Cortana. The villain was okay, I think I would have liked him a little more if he didn't have such cheesy dialogue.

Halo 5? Totally different story. I could not get into this game. I only ever play Halo for the campaign so I can't speak at all to its multiplayer, but Halo 5's story was just... god awful. If this had been the maiden voyage for 343 Industries, I would have been done with Halo forever. The campaign's pacing was horrible, the newer enemies were blah, and the story just wasn't there. Locke felt like the most irrelevant character ever, and the game was MOSTLY him! It was insane. In the end I couldn't even finish it, that's how bad it was.

I do appreciate the review though, now I can probably try Halo 6 when it comes out without feeling like I'm missing critical information. I would like one clarification: when/why did Dr. Halsey start working for the Covenant? I don't remember anything that hinted at this in Halo 4, maybe it went right over my head. That totally blindsided me in Halo 5.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I really, really loved Halo 4. That game went a long way to assuring me that the franchise was in good hands with 343 Industries. I loved the Tron-esque theme of the Forerunners, they were a blast to fight, and it was so nice not having to wade through Flood. The campaign had excellent pacing, looked gorgeous, and had some very touching moments with Chief and Cortana. The villain was okay, I think I would have liked him a little more if he didn't have such cheesy dialogue.

Halo 5? Totally different story. I could not get into this game. I only ever play Halo for the campaign so I can't speak at all to its multiplayer, but Halo 5's story was just... god awful. If this had been the maiden voyage for 343 Industries, I would have been done with Halo forever. The campaign's pacing was horrible, the newer enemies were blah, and the story just wasn't there. Locke felt like the most irrelevant character ever, and the game was MOSTLY him! It was insane. In the end I couldn't even finish it, that's how bad it was.

I do appreciate the review though, now I can probably try Halo 6 when it comes out without feeling like I'm missing critical information. I would like one clarification: when/why did Dr. Halsey start working for the Covenant? I don't remember anything that hinted at this in Halo 4, maybe it went right over my head. That totally blindsided me in Halo 5.

The Spartan Ops missions.

In the Spartan Ops storyline. At the end after the UNSC tries to kill her she confides in Mdama that she wants revenge.


I thought Cortana was already fully sentient because she was a Smart AI and her mind was based off a clone of Halsey. (Which I took as code word for she's basically human, it's totally not weird). I get that she is post rampant but I don't feel like she's more sentient, it's never implied that AI are constrained by programming or lack true sentience. It's more that humans don't call them sentient because they're basically disposable slaves.

See I don't like the idea of her wing corrupted by power. I can get that she would assume she has a destiny or greater role by becoming so powerful. But I don't believe the character would use violence to force that fact. Basically paragon control ending, not renegade control ending. I definetly don't follow how in Halo 4 cortona is in tears over humans being composed by the Didact but is in Halo 5 getting ready to turn a Halo into a giant Promethium factory/Death Star.



Also, just a little addition to my review above but I think they really did a bad job in terms of Chief's story. I can see what they're trying to go for, it does shine through now and again. Chief is torn up over losing Cortana, he then goes on a quest to get her back determined and hopeful to find her. He is reunited with her and things seem great. Then he loses her all over again as he realises shes become a monster. But 343 just do not tell this story very well. They reveal that Cortana is alive and then a villain far too early. I quite enjoyed the stuff where we're wandering around on Genesis with her this ghost in the machine leading you to these consoles. They should have really ran with that for most of the game and never outright stated or confirmed that Cortana was alive; much less that she was controlling the Guardians. We never get to feel Cortana's absence, I mean hell she appears in all 3 of Chiefs missions. But worse, we don't get to feel hope and root for Chief to get her back because we are fully aware long before he gets to Genesis that she is evil. Finally it kills the shock and disbelief of some of the revelations Cortana makes to Chief; it really lacks weight. This really is not helped by Chief only getting 3 missions. Cortana betraying Chief and being the villain is arguably the most personal story for Chief ever in a Halo game. You could have exchanged Chief for another hero in any of his previous stories, but surely this should be about Chief? So it really lets itself down when what should be the emotional core of the story gets side lined and given so little space. This is especially true because Chiefs 3 missions have to carry off so much: introduce and expand on Blue Team, introduce the Warden Eternal, introduce his complex relationship with Cortana and finally reintroduce Cortana. That's an aweful lot and it does detract from what should be a much more personal story. So, I don't know, I think 343 really made some terribly ill thought decisions with this campaign.

Halo 5's campaign was very trite and over used. Oh noes, evil AI takes over everything and subjugates humanity, on noes! That hasn't been done to death, dug up, beaten some more, buried, dug up again, etc etc etc.

Honestly, the books had a better storyline going with the murkiness of the post war period. A far more satisfying story would have involved keeping the covenant off balance, the prometheans as a potential power shifter, and the moral conflicts of arming people to fight each other so they don't fight you.

I don't want to play as Locke, who cares about this guy? Certainly not as a 'I'm a bad ###, look, I cracked the Chief's visor' when the Chief should have murdered him (being faster, stronger, toughter, smarter, better trained, more will, and more experience. Essentially better in all ways than Locke). Locke could have been taken in a more interesting direction, and not just 'see, see, I'm Master Chief light, same great taste with less calories'.

Also, why is everyone suddenly okay with Halsey. They all want her dead, she betrays the UNSC, and now everything is sunshine and roses like Halo 4 never happened?


Not a fan of the storyline direction.

They took the easy way out by making her a villain instead of keeping her dead and wasted their time with the Halsey story arc.

They could have raised larger questions by exploring Chief after his AI's death and the fact that he now has to /deal/ with PTSD, Sociopathic tendencies, and scars from both the war and his training/abduction/and the fact that he has turned down countless promotions since the ending of Halo three.

People disliked blue team because they took works from the books and added it in.

Most people didn't even know Blue team survived in a Dyson sphere. They could have briefed everyone with an informational style cutscene or done something, and also broached how the escalation comics tied in better.

They took the easy way out. Most people hated H4 but, I loved it.

I have loved every halo but, this one... I am glad I watched it first on youtube. Stopped me from buying the limited console. I might still get it eventually for Multiplayer though.

Also at the end of Halo 4 Cortana had copied herself a good ten times at least. I am thinking the Cortana we met in Halo 5 is a rampant copy and that the "slightly better," (not going to use good as she would still be Rampant but, non violent and thus curable by Halsey,) copy that touched Chief is either dead or trapped in the Domain from Rampant Cortana, that Chief will find out about and have to rescue in Halo 6, resulting in his death and the end of the series. (It's been mentioned several times Chief will die at the end of this story.) Sorry for the run on sentence but, I'm tired.

Thoughts?

 Maniac_nmt wrote:

Also, why is everyone suddenly okay with Halsey. They all want her dead, she betrays the UNSC, and now everything is sunshine and roses like Halo 4 never happened?


Not a fan of the storyline direction.

I haven't read the novels myself, but I understand that the "make Halsey the bad guy" move in H4 didn't just take place in H4. The novels released at around the same time also made Halsey look more like a bad person than she had been previously. And apparently they did so at least in part by blatantly ignoring the previous actions of certain other human characters in the novels. i.e. there was suddenly a heavier focus on the questionable elements of Halsey's past actions, but similar or worse actions from other human characters in power (who were involved in the same or similar programs) were ignored. I suspect that the fans who were dedicated enough to do things like read the novels got annoyed about this, and there was a backlash among them regarding the direction that 343 was suddenly going with Halsey's character.


In any event, Spartan Ops made it clear that right up until the government tried to have her shot, she was still pro-Earth (despite being evasive and duplicitous).

Eumerin wrote:

 Maniac_nmt wrote:

Also, why is everyone suddenly okay with Halsey. They all want her dead, she betrays the UNSC, and now everything is sunshine and roses like Halo 4 never happened?


Not a fan of the storyline direction.

I haven't read the novels myself, but I understand that the "make Halsey the bad guy" move in H4 didn't just take place in H4. The novels released at around the same time also made Halsey look more like a bad person than she had been previously. And apparently they did so at least in part by blatantly ignoring the previous actions of certain other human characters in the novels. i.e. there was suddenly a heavier focus on the questionable elements of Halsey's past actions, but similar or worse actions from other human characters in power (who were involved in the same or similar programs) were ignored. I suspect that the fans who were dedicated enough to do things like read the novels got annoyed about this, and there was a backlash among them regarding the direction that 343 was suddenly going with Halsey's character.


In any event, Spartan Ops made it clear that right up until the government tried to have her shot, she was still pro-Earth (despite being evasive and duplicitous).

I read the novels as well. I don't think anything was glossed over particularly. Halsey has always been particularly self serving or ends justifying the means. Is she a scape goat? Sure, but it was also all her plan and she's narcissistic enough to look down her nose at everyone else as being a stupid inferior.

Everyone, and I mean, everyone wants to put a bullet in her head, and now they are happy to work with her. No real mention of wanting to do her in, suspicions on her motives, or other similar dialog. Just, Dr. Halsey, we're here to rescue you, now lets all go have a little sponge cake and a little wine und ####... To the lumber yard!

"Everyone" did not want to shoot Halsey. We know certain individuals in the leadership did. But the captain of the Infinity in Spartan Ops was reluctant to follow the order even after she'd messed with his AI and left with the bad guys. I doubt he was alone in that sentiment.

And when she tossed some of the data she'd retrieved to a spartan instead of keeping it for the bad guys in Spartan Ops (right before getting shot by Palmer), she made it clear that she was still pro-Earth. Given that concerns over her loyalty was why the kill order was issued in the first place, it makes sense that this would have caused it to be retracted.

Eumerin wrote:
"Everyone" did not want to shoot Halsey. We know certain individuals in the leadership did. But the captain of the Infinity in Spartan Ops was reluctant to follow the order even after she'd messed with his AI and left with the bad guys. I doubt he was alone in that sentiment.

And when she tossed some of the data she'd retrieved to a spartan instead of keeping it for the bad guys in Spartan Ops (right before getting shot by Palmer), she made it clear that she was still pro-Earth. Given that concerns over her loyalty was why the kill order was issued in the first place, it makes sense that this would have caused it to be retracted.

A lot of folks want to kill her over the new found squeamishness around the Spartan II program (dealing with the fall out is good, but the overall take is a bit ham-fisted) not just concerns over her loyalties. Even folks who knew about it are making mutterances about the monstrous nature of the Spartan II program.

Yeah, but that's why they imprisoned her. The order to kill her didn't come through until they thought she was trying to defect.

Eumerin wrote:
Yeah, but that's why they imprisoned her. The order to kill her didn't come through until they thought she was trying to defect.

Yes, but even outside of the order people were already wanting to put a bullet in her head. A lot of trust was put back in her with no mention of misgivings which seems odd.

We allied with the Arbiter, but there are still comments about not trusting him, books are detailed to efforts to keep him destabilized, and at best he's seen as an honorable foe who may try to do us in at some point in the future (not as a fully cooperative ally we can trust all the way to the bank).

The campaign seems almost tacked on in Halo 5. Co-op seems to have taken a step backwards (I haven't been able to figure out how to search for or join co-op missions, and split screen is gone now), which is a crying shame. Halo 5 seems to be geared towards multiplayer and the new fad of having to buy stuff in order to unlock the useful or desired gear (honestly, with as many weapon skins, armor sets, weapon variations, and more you'd think they could drop a standard loadout gun/skin into every req pack and it'd still take a long time to collect them all).

Presumably you only saw the people who trust her, and the people who don't trust her remained elsewhere in the galaxy.