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 EngulfedObject wrote:
Hey, that's not exactly fair where in one thread you justify Mkoll outfoxing and defeating a Mandrake by saying it was before the retcon/reinvention of the DE, and then in another thread use that as fluff evidence

It's absolutely fair when I'm talking about the comparison with DE Warriors as hand to hand combatants, though :p

 Scorpionov wrote:
i don't know wyches i think would be overpowered for marines they just slaughter them

Marines, in the lore, are pretty damn overpowered.

What do you say guys, shall I quote my favourite lore passage where some CSM wipe out a Guard company by yanking the treads off their tanks and using them to whip the guardsmen to death?

 Crazyterran wrote:
Night Lords. They could take anything short of Incubi, I'd imagine, and could probably beat the Incubi if they are given their equivalents in wargear (lightning claws, power weapons).

Yea.

 Scorpionov wrote:
As the title states 200 kabalite warriors or mandrakes (You decide) vs 200 nightlord chaos marines using melee wepaons only (no flying or jumpacks for either side) in a completely darkened environment who would win

We've already seen this happen.

A single pissed off Blood Gorgon wandered into a Dark Eldar camp once to retrieve his brother who had been captured. He slaughtered them all.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Night Lords. They could take anything short of Incubi, I'd imagine, and could probably beat the Incubi if they are given their equivalents in wargear (lightning claws, power weapons).

I'm not sure, an Incubus should be more skilled then a Marine in combat, by virtue of Eldar psychology of addiction to certain aspects. Incubi are the best of the best in Commarragh, if they weren't they wouldn't be hired as Bodyguards. In contrast, while i have no doubt if you give a Marine a power weapon he will be proficient with it, i doubt they train as exclusively and as devoutly with it as the Incubus does the Klaive. So Incubi>Marine in skill. In Speed, Incubi are Eldar trained to their peak in reactions and athleticism and as such should have the advantage. Strength is incomparable but leathality most certainly is, if either lands a blow the other is a gonner. It is noted in the fluff Incubi train to be the most efficient killers possible, this would mean if they strike a blow it is either a killing blow or a heavily maiming one.

In Path of the Incubus Incubi are shown to weave around and chop down Plague Marines with relative ease if your looking for fluff examples.

Isn't this how it should be? Generalist Eldar<Generalist Marines<Specialist Eldar=Specialist Marines? >>

If the marines are in armour, the kabalites lose.

Bear in mind that Night Lords are used to hunting in low light conditions, and can just switch to their Prey Sight (Infra Red vision from the sounds of things) as mentioned in ADBs Night Lord series.

Kabalites don't have an equivalent, are physically weaker and less resilient, and aren't wearing tank armour that lets them shrug off small arms, never mind small fists.

I'd give it that roughly 1 marine dead for every 20 dark eldar, assuming the dark eldar aren't stabbing each other in the back.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Go read Brothers of the Snake.

And then consider that a Sister of Battle fought an entire kabal's stock of sponsored gladiators in the pits of Commoragh and won, before leaving because she stopped being so depressed she felt it was the only thing she could do.

Is this from Daemonfuge? Cuz that's not really fair. She wasn't a normal SoB, she was a psychically powered super woman with some sort of weird warp-connection with Slaanesh (despite still being a loyalist), and possibly a living saint. That's like trying to pass off a Primarch as a normal marine. A normal SoB without power armour would likely be outmatched against a Dark Eldar Wych, plot armor notwithstanding.

As for the OP, I agree with what everyone else has been saying. Kabalites will get stomped against marines if they both are in their standard armour, with close combat weapons. Kabalites are A BIT faster than marines, while marines are exponentially stronger, tougher, at least as skilled in combat, and have a variety of other nastiness such as the ability to spit acid. Plus Power Armour is significantly better than Kabalite armour. Without armor, the Kabalites would stand a bit more of a chance, because their speed advantage would matter a bit more, but marines would still have the advantage.

OP seems to think that Space Marines either have normal human speed or are slow and lumbering. They're not. They're superhumanly fast, like the Eldar. Chaos Marines with MoS are actually EXACTLY AS FAST as Dark Eldar, as are marine Lords, Captains, etc.

Wyches would have a bit more chance, being close combat experts, but again would need to get lucky. And we know plot armor is for marines, so...
Incubi would have the best chance, being the elite of the elite.
The problem is, you're talking about essentially a cage match, which Marines excel at much better than Dark Eldar. When Dark Eldar get the upper hand against marines of any flavor, it's because they don't fight fair. On the battle field, they perform lightning precision strikes and then run away before their opponents can hit back, and pretty much always have a sizable advantage in numbers. In the arena, they essentially throw the marines in naked, maybe with a sturdy club. DE aren't stupid, and while they consider marines to be members of an inferior race, they have a healthy respect for their physical might.

 fallinq wrote:
Is this from Daemonfuge? Cuz that's not really fair. She wasn't a normal SoB, she was a psychically powered super woman with some sort of weird warp-connection with Slaanesh (despite still being a loyalist), and possibly a living saint. That's like trying to pass off a Primarch as a normal marine. A normal SoB without power armour would likely be outmatched against a Dark Eldar Wych, plot armor notwithstanding.

Not quite. She was a Seraphim, which means she was a little more Divine than a normal Battle Sister, but aside from having Slaanesh's True Name jammed into her head, she wasn't really anything special physically. Knowing the Name of a chaos god let her do some stuff - banish daemons, open warp gates and autoressurect, but it didn't make her a better fighter against mortal enemies.

And amidst the darkness, the Night Lord whispered one word from cold lips...


"Preysight."

Night Lords would whup the Dark Eldar. They're just as fast as them, they're much stronger and tougher, and they have better armor. The DE have no chance against them.

I've found almost the exact piece of fluff you are looking for in the Haemonculus Coven supplement time line.

A Haemonculi coven was ambushed by the Night Lords, sending several Haemonculi drifting the the Void for a while. After they were recovered and resurrected, they where rightly miffed, so they set a trap themselves.

Night Lords attack imperial settlement, taking out power supplies to leave it dark. Dark Eldar then attack using Anti-Photon tech to make it so Dark even Night Lords supernatural vision was worthless (I assume Prey Sight might still work, but not on Mandrakes). The Haemonculi employ thousands of Mandrakes which attack from every angle and butcher the citizens in order to spook the Night Lords.

Night Lords desperately try to find the Anti-Photon engine, they manage to destroy it, but when the lights come up all Dark Eldar and Imperial Citizens are gone and the Night Lords are left fearing the Dark.

Doesn't change the out come of the OP's question, but it is a very similar scenario.

... How utterly ridiculous. Civilian casualties wouldn't phase the Night Lords in the slightest.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... How utterly ridiculous. Civilian casualties wouldn't phase the Night Lords in the slightest.

It was probably being totally outmanuevered by enemies they couldn't even see that was scary. Night Lords are supposed to make others fear the dark!