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The GW's I visit tend to treat AoS abit like a shameful thing. Its always on the furthest board away from the entrance or facing away from the store front, nobody ever trys to sell you on the game. nobody's yet tried to get me to buy anything AoS and I never see people buying it, sometimes the boxes are just piled up on the floor in the back because they can't shift it.
If this is GW we're talking about what hope do independent sellers have shifting the stuff. AoS on whole just doesn't look like a good seller and falls in line with the hobbit.
Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel. Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
"AOS gave them a small bump in fantasy sales, but they lost hugely with no 40k sales in those months. My sales are down 65% for the last 4 months on GW. "
"GW found a way to cost me thousands of dollars in sales each month"
Where you clearly blame GW, rather than taking responsibility as a business owner. Is blaming other companies par for the course? How is that smart business? Please explain
This is a supply issue, resulting from Games Workshop taking a few months off from supplying Mikhaila with new 40k releases. Mikhaila can't make Games Workshop produce new 40k releases to sell to him, so your attempts to blame him for GW's actions are absurd. Even if Mikhaila replaced those lost 40k sales with a substitute, that substitute is inevitably going to be inferior to the status quo, because if it wasn't then 40k would be the substitute and the other product would be the one he sells all the time.
I don't think it's a good idea or model to rely on new releases for the bulk of your sales for a miniatures game. New customers are preferable in my mind, note I count getting someone into a new army for a game they already play as part of that. I aim for at least 60% of my miniatures sales to come from new players, their buy in is higher and their subsequent purchases will be higher as well then say a customer that has been playing a miniatures game for a few years. This is especially so if you implement programs to achieve a high retention rate. This is do to the simple fact most people will just stop at a certain point with an army. Further GW hasn't always had such an aggressive release schedule. Just seems like a bad idea to bank on new releases.
While I'm not suggesting it's a good idea to build a business around the idea of new releases, isn't that where a huge amount of the money lies?
I know on video games the vast majority of profit for any given game comes in the first week. I'm sure wargaming isn't as extreme as video game publishers market more aggressively, but I'm sure sales are still skewed massively to the first week of release. From GW's own sale figures that were released from the chapterhouse case a decent chunk of sales (half or more) occur in the first year and if I were to hazard a guess I'd say it's biased toward the first month. I know when the Imperial Knight came out my local FLGS had a stack of about 10 of them, most of them were gone in the first week, a couple sold in the 2nd week and the last 2 were sitting around for a few months.
It doesn't seem like a good idea to bank on new releases, but it also seems like a bad idea to not try and get the most out of them. That's why I hear wargames stores owners bitching about GW more than any other company when it comes to not getting enough advance information, not enough time to figure out how many to order and not good reliability on preorders. The only real complaints I hear about other companies are general supply issues, I'm sure that's partly because Australian distributors are struggling these days (I hear a lot of complaints from store owners about how customers can buy stuff online from overseas shipped to their door for a similar price to the store can get it wholesale from the local distributor AND get it more reliably as well).
As an aside, my local hobby store owner (not wargames, but remote control cars/planes, finescale models, etc) was talking about how the new stuff is often the thing that draws people in even if they end up buying something else. Things like having the newest scalextric set or airfix big kit in the window he gets people coming in to check it out and then somehow manages to sell the old scalextrix sets or an old airfix big kit that's been sitting on the shelves for years to them instead I know that's not as relevant to the discussion at hand but I found it interesting none the less.
No you should certainly get the new releases, and GW is absolutely terrible at advanced warning, which coupled with an extremely aggressive release schedule can be frustrating. However in terms of Wargames the new customer always has the biggest buy in. Rules, codex, an army. You'll even have some that get into it buy a codex then buy a complete 2k list in one purchase. I like to do escalation leagues though because a little bit at a time is easier for people to swallow. On top of this the more new customers you generate and maintain means the more you'll get out of those new releases.
DrNo172000 wrote: I don't think it's a good idea or model to rely on new releases for the bulk of your sales for a miniatures game. New customers are preferable in my mind, note I count getting someone into a new army for a game they already play as part of that. I aim for at least 60% of my miniatures sales to come from new players, their buy in is higher and their subsequent purchases will be higher as well then say a customer that has been playing a miniatures game for a few years. This is especially so if you implement programs to achieve a high retention rate. This is do to the simple fact most people will just stop at a certain point with an army. Further GW hasn't always had such an aggressive release schedule. Just seems like a bad idea to bank on new releases.
That's an interesting point of view. I see the point of people buying new armies spending more, but my two FLGSs and my local GW seem to survive on a dedicated veteran customer group for Warmahordes, Magic and 40k. In fact the one I would guess is the most successful of the three (recently bought the store next door for gaming space) isn't in a high foot traffic area at all, I wouldn't imagine many new people even finding it.
I wonder if that is an Australian thing.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
Anecdotal proof may mean nothing in the grand scheme of things but in the bubble i live in, it means everything, from the Japanese and foreigners i know in the kinki (kansai) area only one bought Aos.
And I care about my Bloodbound! I mean, I care about them in the context of a campaign. Being so new, they don't have nearly the iconic resonance of a Space Marine legion. But with the characters that bring some of that relevance with them from the Old World, like Valkia, I have the same feeling.
(back from the weekend with a colicky toddler)
But the things is, can you care for them without Valkia, who is clearly a product of the Old World? What new Bloodbound/Sigmarine chars do bring such relevance?
...and it doesn't help that they consider "rocks fall, everyone dies" to be epic story telling.
The idea of Tomb Kings being slaves to Nagash put me off the new setting pretty quick.
Imho, the three first ET books were actually quite okish - I didn't even mind the way they dealt with the Elvish... "situation" and one of my favorite HE chars kickin' it (Eltharion). The true issue came to the fore when they went full on kablooey on everything.
A few major plot changes would be nice, and they could even be undone in the longterm- there could've been a campaign focused on Settra's reclamation of Khemri (with or without Chaos), on the War of Heraldry itself, etc etc...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/07 09:11:10
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
TBH the new characters are about equivalent with older ones (it's not like any of them are particularly brilliant). OIder ones simply have the advantage of being familiar already.
TBH the new characters are about equivalent with older ones (it's not like any of them are particularly brilliant). OIder ones simply have the advantage of being familiar already.
It's true that while one can't make exactly a Khornate character the epitome of depth, the previous setting's characters weren't that bad. Not Pullitzer material, but nothing to look away from, even if heavily based on existing tropes/stereotypes.
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
Sure and the new ones are of equivalent quality. Like any GW fluff concept, they need to age into status. GW stuff always seems kind of silly at first but you grow used to it and develop affection for it over time.
Manchu wrote: Sure and the new ones are of equivalent quality. Like any GW fluff concept, they need to age into status. GW stuff always seems kind of silly at first but you grow used to it and develop affection for it over time.
And that is just another of the many blunders made by GW regarding the Fantasy situation, really. I will be very curious as to what they will make the dwarves like, though.
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
How many people were bored and fed up with the Olde World?
The introduction of the AoS fluff seems to be based on GW's desire to create watertight trademarks and so on, rather than because readers were demanding a complete new background for games.
Kilkrazy wrote: I remember that too, and of course it is simple to update a PDF. GW did update the rules to correct the bonus victory conditions very quickly. (The victory conditions for outnumbered armies.)
But really, there isn't very much that needs to be clarified or corrected in the rules. (Short of a massive re-write, at any rate.)
Kilkrazy wrote: How many people were bored and fed up with the Olde World?
The introduction of the AoS fluff seems to be based on GW's desire to create watertight trademarks and so on, rather than because readers were demanding a complete new background for games.
Exactly. Looking at the naming... conventions, it's obvious this is their flipping the bird to Chapterhouse and other 3rd party dealers more than anything else.
Kilkrazy wrote: How many people were bored and fed up with the Olde World?
The introduction of the AoS fluff seems to be based on GW's desire to create watertight trademarks and so on, rather than because readers were demanding a complete new background for games.
Exactly. Looking at the naming... conventions, it's obvious this is their flipping the bird to Chapterhouse and other 3rd party dealers more than anything else.
And that in itself is not really going to help a lot. Chapterhouse only got into that mess because they were pretty much shameless If they had kept a lower profile nothing would have happened.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/07 12:33:22
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
Kilkrazy wrote: How many people were bored and fed up with the Olde World?
The introduction of the AoS fluff seems to be based on GW's desire to create watertight trademarks and so on, rather than because readers were demanding a complete new background for games.
Exactly. Looking at the naming... conventions, it's obvious this is their flipping the bird to Chapterhouse and other 3rd party dealers more than anything else.
That really doesn't make any sense though because wasn't the outcome of the CH case that it is fine for 3rd party dealers to say "compatible with Seraphon models from Games Workshop" as long as they weren't advertising it as "This is a Seraphon model".
Kilkrazy wrote: How many people were bored and fed up with the Olde World?
The introduction of the AoS fluff seems to be based on GW's desire to create watertight trademarks and so on, rather than because readers were demanding a complete new background for games.
Exactly. Looking at the naming... conventions, it's obvious this is their flipping the bird to Chapterhouse and other 3rd party dealers more than anything else.
That really doesn't make any sense though because wasn't the outcome of the CH case that it is fine for 3rd party dealers to say "compatible with Seraphon models from Games Workshop" as long as they weren't advertising it as "This is a Seraphon model".
Pretty much. And they can go for even more bland descriptions like "compatible with most X/Y scale fantasy miniatures".
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
That has always been true but GW obviously didn't understand the legal position going into the Chapter House case, and maybe they have learned nothing from it.
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:I didn't even mind the way they dealt with the Elvish... "situation"
You're dead to me.
Kilkrazy wrote:How many people were bored and fed up with the Olde World?
*Sits on hands*
I've said it before: it was the best thing they had left. That maybe didn't cost an arm and a leg.
AllSeeingSkink wrote:That really doesn't make any sense though because wasn't the outcome of the CH case that it is fine for 3rd party dealers to say "compatible with Seraphon models from Games Workshop" as long as they weren't advertising it as "This is a Seraphon model".
Kilkrazy wrote:That has always been true but GW obviously didn't understand the legal position going into the Chapter House case, and maybe they have learned nothing from it.
Aye, that. I've gotta be honest, I have trouble believing Kilkrazy's quote and the claim it's (partly) why they torched the old world and came up with different (differently unprotectable) names. It's plainly obvious to internet chatterers - surely GW has to get it, too? They can be dim, but that dim?
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:I didn't even mind the way they dealt with the Elvish... "situation"
You're dead to me.
Hey! I didn't say I liked it. I said I didn't mind I mean it still had potential for further genocide and it's still better than blowing up the entire fething world....
Kilkrazy wrote:How many people were bored and fed up with the Olde World?
*Sits on hands*
I've said it before: it was the best thing they had left. That maybe didn't cost an arm and a leg.
AllSeeingSkink wrote:That really doesn't make any sense though because wasn't the outcome of the CH case that it is fine for 3rd party dealers to say "compatible with Seraphon models from Games Workshop" as long as they weren't advertising it as "This is a Seraphon model".
Kilkrazy wrote:That has always been true but GW obviously didn't understand the legal position going into the Chapter House case, and maybe they have learned nothing from it.
Aye, that. I've gotta be honest, I have trouble believing Kilkrazy's quote and the claim it's (partly) why they torched the old world and came up with different (differently unprotectable) names. It's plainly obvious to internet chatterers - surely GW has to get it, too? They can be dim, but that dim?
Case in point: AoS.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/07 14:02:19
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
The Chapterhouse mess was ridiculous on 2 fronts - CH for being so flagrant, but also because GW had no choice not to react. American TM law is a different, far more aggressive beast than Europe - to my understanding in Europe once a TM or equivalent has been awarded, it's pretty much sacrosanct. In the states, if you don't challenge infringements then you are effectively judged to be endorsing them if others follow suit.
If they hadn't gone after Chapterhouse then it would have been potentially disastrous for the IP, and then share price...
You only have to look at the perpetual cycle of litigation between Apple, Samsung and Google for an example of IP policing that only really benefits lawyers.
The first End Times book, Nagash, was okay-sh. And even that one had the clear reek of Wardian taint among its pages.
It quickly went downhill after that one, though. When asked about the (severe) inconsistencies in the story, one of the writers admitted they had been given two months or so to write some of the books. So they had little to no time to do the usual reference checks and proof reading. I'm actually inclined to believe that's how GW works nowadays in an overall sense: stupidly tight deadlines that lead to no checking and no proof reading. Explains a lot really.
The AoS fluff I've read so far strikes me as incredibly bland and boring. Not saying the old Fantasy fluff was full of masterpieces, but at least there were parts of it where you could say the writer at least had been somewhat inspired that day.
Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.
GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get.
GW's view is that no-one should be allowed to buy any models you could use in one of their games except from GW. Therefore 3rd party companies should not be allowed to make compatible models. The problem is they can. Therefore the solution is that they should not be allowed to call them compatible models. But this is not the law on names and trademarks.
GW have trademarked the newly invented name "Ratiocinator" for a new type of Sigmarine for the Games and Toys category.
This means no-one is allowed to make a model for a tabletop wargame and call it a Ratiocinator. But Hyundai can make a car called a Ratiocinator, Nestle can make a chocolate bar called a Ratiocinator, and Chapter House can make a spare part to fit Ratiocinators, say a new shield, and describe it as "Compatible with GW's Ratiocinator(tm) models".
The place that the new names have some value is in establishing the coherent identity of AoS fluff as distinct from WHFB fluff.
Korinov wrote: The first End Times book, Nagash, was okay-sh. And even that one had the clear reek of Wardian taint among its pages.
It quickly went downhill after that one, though. When asked about the (severe) inconsistencies in the story, one of the writers admitted they had been given two months or so to write some of the books. So they had little to no time to do the usual reference checks and proof reading. I'm actually inclined to believe that's how GW works nowadays in an overall sense: stupidly tight deadlines that lead to no checking and no proof reading. Explains a lot really.
The AoS fluff I've read so far strikes me as incredibly bland and boring. Not saying the old Fantasy fluff was full of masterpieces, but at least there were parts of it where you could say the writer at least had been somewhat inspired that day.
Agreed, and it's reflective of GW overall. I really enjoy really reading GW's old fluff, in stuff from like WHFB 3E, 40k 2E, up through probably WHFB 7E and 40k 4E. After that it starts to become increasingly recycled, unimaginative, and one-dimensional. A couple of things in the End Times were interesting, but it lacked that "spark" of older stuff. The AoS fluff has just come off as bad internet fanfic. Everything sounds like it was named by an overactive 12 year old, and the stories just really feel like someone copy-pasted some bits of old Warhammer fluff onto a template design to copy what made Space Marines popular in 40k in an almost carbon-copy like manner.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
RoperPG wrote: The Chapterhouse mess was ridiculous on 2 fronts - CH for being so flagrant, but also because GW had no choice not to react. American TM law is a different, far more aggressive beast than Europe - to my understanding in Europe once a TM or equivalent has been awarded, it's pretty much sacrosanct. In the states, if you don't challenge infringements then you are effectively judged to be endorsing them if others follow suit.
If they hadn't gone after Chapterhouse then it would have been potentially disastrous for the IP, and then share price...
That is entirely not the core of the Chapterhouse case - that was the ability to advertise your products as being compatible with another company's products - and Chapterhouse overwhelmingly won, costing Games Workshop millions of dollars in litigation and proving that it did not own the copyright for things such as "Halberd" and the iron cross. This is why they, as well as anyone else, can advertise "Chaos Space Marine Compatible Bits", much like I can buy a "Mitsubishi 3000 GT compatible carbon fiber hood". Regardless, WTF is Chapterhouse doing in this thread?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy wrote: How many people were bored and fed up with the Olde World?
Bored with? Me. It was the coolest thing ever in the 90's, loved that GW was advancing the plot in the mid 2000's, and then they retconned it all and began morphing it into a supermagic steampunk ball of nonsense. I love the Old World of Warhammer 3rd through 6, of Warhammer Roleplay First and Second edition... that's the true Old World. Gnarly, deadly, dark, treacherous, shadow. Not the hot steaming pile of garbage mess that the fluff had become by the latter half of 7th and all of 8th. Much like with 40k, GW could not make any significant plot advancements without pissing off it's customer base (or at least the vocal ones on forums) by weakening or strengthening any particular faction, so any advancements (Storm of Chaos, much like the 40k Eye of Terror worldwide campaign) had to be retconned constantly.
The best thing to happen to Warhammer was the End Times and Age of Sigmar. Otherwise we would have had the same stagnant Warhammer world that we've had since 1982 whose only advancement would be in how many times any plot advancement could be quickly hushed and forgotten and how many new regiments/unit types could suddenly appear out of nowhere - oh gak, well of COURSE the Empire always had demigryph knights! The Empire always had clockwork steam powered steeds!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/07 14:36:18
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
judgedoug wrote: Regardless, WTF is Chapterhouse doing in this thread?
The CH issue is seen (rightly so, imo) as the true motive for the renaming and rebranding of GW's fantasy line - AoS. That's why.
So you believe that the entire reason - nay, "TRUE MOTIVE" - that Age of Sigmar exists is because of the Chapterhouse case? The case that proved for the ten thousandth time that you can manufacture aftermarket parts that say "compatible with"?
While that absolutely makes sense for the renaming of the generic factions into Duardin and Seraphon, etc, just for the purposes of copyright-able names (versus the generic "Dwarves" and "Lizardmen"), I am still allowed to (and have the full force of the legal system behind me) make a piece that says "compatible with Age of Sigmar Stormcast Eternal Liberator".
But, again, just repeating here, the Chapterhouse case is the TRUE MOTIVE for Age of Sigmar. Yes? The entire reason it exists?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/07 14:41:26
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
judgedoug wrote: The best thing to happen to Warhammer was the End Times and Age of Sigmar. Otherwise we would have had the same stagnant Warhammer world that we've had since 1982 whose only advancement would be in how many times any plot advancement could be quickly hushed and forgotten and how many new regiments/unit types could suddenly appear out of nowhere - oh gak, well of COURSE the Empire always had demigryph knights! The Empire always had clockwork steam powered steeds!
The worst thing to have ever happened to WHFB was AoS - it's an half arsed attempt to drive sales by using 40k's best selling range (Space Marines) to appeal to excitable younger audiences and people who have trouble controlling impulse buying urges.
The only achievement of AoS was to effectively split the WHFB community in two and to drive a wedge between GW and yet more of their player err... sorry "customer" base. Ain't that an achievement?
judgedoug wrote: Regardless, WTF is Chapterhouse doing in this thread?
The CH issue is seen (rightly so, imo) as the true motive for the renaming and rebranding of GW's fantasy line - AoS. That's why.
So you believe that the entire reason - nay, "TRUE MOTIVE" - that Age of Sigmar exists is because of the Chapterhouse case? The case that proved for the ten thousandth time that you can manufacture aftermarket parts that say "compatible with"?
While that absolutely makes sense for the renaming of the generic factions into Duardin and Seraphon, etc, just for the purposes of copyright-able names (versus the generic "Dwarves" and "Lizardmen"), I am still allowed to (and have the full force of the legal system behind me) make a piece that says "compatible with Age of Sigmar Stormcast Eternal Liberator".
But, again, just repeating here, the Chapterhouse case is the TRUE MOTIVE for Age of Sigmar. Yes? The entire reason it exists?
I believe so, yes. And as I said before - AoS as a whole provides more than enough proof of GW's incompetence in oh so many levels.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/07 14:44:35
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
judgedoug wrote: The best thing to happen to Warhammer was the End Times and Age of Sigmar. Otherwise we would have had the same stagnant Warhammer world that we've had since 1982 whose only advancement would be in how many times any plot advancement could be quickly hushed and forgotten and how many new regiments/unit types could suddenly appear out of nowhere - oh gak, well of COURSE the Empire always had demigryph knights! The Empire always had clockwork steam powered steeds!
The worst thing to have ever happened to WHFB was AoS - it's an half arsed attempt to drive sales by using 40k's best selling range (Space Marines) to appeal to excitable younger audiences and people who have trouble controlling impulse buying urges.
The only achievement of AoS was to effectively split the WHFB community in two and to drive a wedge between GW and yet more of their player err... sorry "customer" base. Ain't that an achievement?
I suppose GW could have continued to polish it's biggest turd - but Warhammer 8 was such a bad game that was trying it's hardest and failing utterly to pretend to be a good game, and the Warhammer world was getting so stupid. So, so stupid.
Just kill it and let it live in our memories. At least Age of Sigmar has embraced the fact it's a Saturday Morning Cartoon, whereas Warhammer was like if Game of Thrones left HBO to become a CW show.
But there will always be people who refuse to believe Warhammer had become utter gak: that "think aos will get retconned" thread is like a circle jerk of butthurt WHFB players reading their own fanfic.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
judgedoug wrote: The best thing to happen to Warhammer was the End Times and Age of Sigmar. Otherwise we would have had the same stagnant Warhammer world that we've had since 1982 whose only advancement would be in how many times any plot advancement could be quickly hushed and forgotten and how many new regiments/unit types could suddenly appear out of nowhere - oh gak, well of COURSE the Empire always had demigryph knights! The Empire always had clockwork steam powered steeds!
The worst thing to have ever happened to WHFB was AoS - it's an half arsed attempt to drive sales by using 40k's best selling range (Space Marines) to appeal to excitable younger audiences and people who have trouble controlling impulse buying urges.
The only achievement of AoS was to effectively split the WHFB community in two and to drive a wedge between GW and yet more of their player err... sorry "customer" base. Ain't that an achievement?
I suppose GW could have continued to polish it's biggest turd - but Warhammer 8 was such a bad game that was trying it's hardest and failing utterly to pretend to be a good game, and the Warhammer world was getting so stupid. So, so stupid.
Just kill it and let it live in our memories. At least Age of Sigmar has embraced the fact it's a Saturday Morning Cartoon, whereas Warhammer was like if Game of Thrones left HBO to become a CW show.
But there will always be people who refuse to believe Warhammer had become utter gak: that "think aos will get retconned" thread is like a circle jerk of butthurt WHFB players reading their own fanfic.
Replacing a turd with a bigger turd will only attract the applause of Coprophiliacs
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
It is certainly easier to remember something fondly when it's gone. I feel a kind of nostalgia for the Old World now completely unsupported by any affection for it circa 2014.
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote: Replacing a turd with a bigger turd will only attract the applause of Coprophiliacs
Shrug, I thought Age of Sigmar was absolutely utter gak until I saw others playing it, and then played it myself, and realized it's a really goddamn fun little skirmish game. It's the first fun thing GW has made since shedding all of their veteran games designers in the late 2000's.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
I know that's not as relevant to the discussion at hand but I found it interesting none the less.
If they had kept a lower profile nothing would have happened.
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
