Warboss Druzzil wrote:Man i look at this ship and it just seems fun to me. i have been looking through these forums for the last couple of weeks and ive noticed a trend. when a new ship comes out everyone just says how much trash it is but i also hear that we need new players to the game. so rather than just crapping on everything lets try to point out what is bad about it but also the good. as a new player to the game i find reading these posts just about put me off the game because it comes off a bit elitist and is intimidating to new players.
just a thought though.
Some of us have been playing STAW for a long time, and when we see a ship like this, all we see are the flaws. A new player may not see them or recognize them, but that doesn't mean they are not there. This ship may be fun for a new player, but from my perspective, it's a bad ship with really bad cards.
Taking a look at the ship itself: 180 fire arc is awesome! Not enough ships have these. Six primary attack dice is sweet! No evasion... hmmm. Five shields and four hull? It's a dreadnought, yet the 4th Division Battleship has a 6/0/7/5 stat line. The Dreadnought's ability is, well, let just think about it for a second. You can't assign a Captain or Admiral on the Dread. That means you have an effective captain skill of 0. You will move first, and fire last. You will gain none of the benefits that Captains and Admirals add to your ship. Continuing on- you may discard up to two upgrades to cancel two attack dice. Except the action bar only has four possible upgrades, so you will only be able to cancel a maximum of 4 attack dice. Maybe more if you take a few extra upgrades that give more upgrade slots, but still. You purchase upgrades on a ship for a reason- to use them, not discard them. So for a player to purchase upgrades just to discard to cancel attack dice is a HUGE waste of points. Let's look at that action bar again- 3 weapons and 1 mech slot. The cheapest Dominion weapon upgrade is 3 points, and the cheapest mech is 1 point. So you are adding 10 points to the cost of your ship to discard them to cancel a total of 4 attack dice. And then your ship will be naked with no captain. Let's look at the maneuver dial. I thought the Battleship had a bad dial. Compared to this... wow. Just, wow. If a ship ever gets behind you, your toast. There is nothing you can do to stop them or get away from them- which is a huge flaw in the Battleship as well. At least the Dread has a 180 fire arc. so a red maneuver at the right time will enable you to maybe shoot back at them... maybe.
The weapon upgrades... Quantum Torps- using Time Tokens (with no action economy on this ship = strike 1). Spend your target lock on a 5 dice attack when you have a primary attack value of 6. That's strike 2, though you could say it's a foul ball, because if you hit, you add 2 damage. Strike 3- you are spending 6 points for an attack that requires a target lock, has time tokens on a ship with no action economy or ways to reduce those time tokens (if only we could take Captain Picard?), and does less damage then your primary attack value. Quantum Torps strike out. Thoron Shock Emitter would be an awesome card if other ships could take it. Strike 1. Spend your target lock and discard this card... strike 2 for it being a discard (oh, hey! Too bad you wanted to use the Dread's ability... now you can't). Strike 3- it does less damage than your Primary weapon. Plasma Wave: Discard this card... strike 1. Only three attack dice vs. any one ship within range 1. Strike 2 (Dominion Dorsal Weapons fire 3 dice in 360 degree up to range 3 for only 3 points, is a disable and not a discard). Strike 3- can only be used on the dread. This brings us to the big one: Matter-Antimatter Warhead. 7 points gets you a one shot weapon that can only fire at range 3 and requires a target lock. If the attack hits, place an aux token on all ships within range 1. At least it's not a Dread only weapon, but there are so many things wrong with this weapon for the dread, that it's not even funny. This card is much, much better on an attack ship or Galor class ship. Even then, I doubt I would take it just because it's so expensive.
Let's look at the mech upgrades. Kinetic Detonator- strike 1 it's an action. Strike 2 its a discard. Strike 3 you have to discard one of your other weapon upgrades as well. Strike 4- I know, we are already out, but this is just how bad the card is- every ship within range 1 takes 1 point of damage... including this ship. Counter Measures- this is actually not a bad card. Not a good card mind you, but not a bad card either. Mediocre I believe is the word. It moves to the bad category because it costs +5 points for any other ship besides the Dread. Evasive Attack Route would be great except it forces you to discard one of your weapons, and it can only be used on the Dread. It's funny that the mech upgrade is actually better then the ships ability. Here, you can discard one weapon to get 2 [evades], while the ship ability is one for one.
The last card in this pack is the Maintenance Crew. Not only is it stupid expensive, but in order for it to work you have to purchase a crew upgrade! Then, you discard the maintenance crew and the crew upgrade to repair two damage to your ship. At least it's not an action. For this combo to work, you are looking at spending 8 points (the cheapest Dominion Crew is 2 points) to discard and repair 2 damage. Mr. Scott would like a word with you...
To get any use out of this ship whatsoever, you are going to have to take upgrades for it- let's say you pack it with 3 Dorsal Weapons Upgrade at 3 points each for a total of 9 points, and because it has no evade dice, we take Evasive Attack Route as well. That's an extra 14 points so far. We'll grab Maintenance Crew and Lamat'Ukan (total of 8 points) for his target lock shenanigans. We don't have to buy a Captain, so we saved some points there! In total, we have spent 52 points on this ship (violates the suggested tournament format
BTW), and all we have gained is the ability to cancel up to five attack dice, or gain 6 [evade] tokens, on a ship that turns like a crippled whale with six attack dice of no quality (no
BS, no conversions, possible target lock) and can repair two damage.
You want to know what else is a good 30 point ship? IRW Valdore, IRW Vrax, any of the Galor class ships, the Enterprise D, the Excelsior, the Prometheus, the Thunderchild, the Negh'Var, and probably the best ship in the game: The USS Voyager. What do those ships have that this one doesn't? Better maneuver dial, evasion dice, same amount of hull and shields, but less attack power, but that's made up by a superior ship abilities, better action bars, and the nail in the coffin: they can all take Captains.
So from a new player's eye, he or she may see this ship and say "Cool! Lots of attack dice and I can discard to cancel hits! That's awesome!" The reality is that with no captain, and without the right upgrade cards, this ship will never, ever be taken by an experienced, competent player that wants to win. Now, if winning isn't your thing, or you don't play competitively, then everything I just wrote is meaningless to you. In which case, play the game, have fun! Drink a beer and eat some pretzels and spend some time with your friends playing STAW.
However, don't make a post saying
so rather than just crapping on everything lets try to point out what is bad about it but also the good. as a new player to the game i find reading these posts just about put me off the game because it comes off a bit elitist and is intimidating to new players.
There is nothing good about this ship. And that has been a trend lately with a lot of ships. If you pay attention to some of the posters here though, you'll find that a couple of us do try to find the positives in every pack. It just happens that this pack? Has mediocre at best one card (Quantum Torps), and the rest are, to put it bluntly, garbage. And that's my very experienced eye looking at this ship and critically analyzing it compared to other ships within Dominion and the rest of the game.
But I want to encourage new players, and I'd love to have a discussion with you about other ships to spend your money on that will go much farther then this Dreadnought. Also, if you have trouble making a fleet, or wonder what a good tactic or card to use, please, ask! We are, despite being a bunch of "Negative Nancy's" and intimidating elitists, helpful and want this game to succeed. Or, at the very least, have a fun afternoon surrounded by friends and having a good time playing STAW.
2500 pts
1850 pts
I can really only think of 1 instances where this is useful and it isn't worth 5 points.
