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I've been beaten constantly in my 40K battles, and although I am enjoying the small victories and the experience of playing the game, the constant state of defeat after defeat is starting to hurt my enjoyment of this game.

I need help to reach the level of not sucking. I realize it's always the stupid mistakes I make either before or during the game that cost me any hope of victory. It's difficult to admit it, but people who I've drawn into the game have gained the upper hand and learned to play better than I could.

So I wonder, is this a game I'm inherently piss poor in playing, or is it something I can overcome? I've read the codices, watched the battle reports, shared my lists online and tweaked them to be optimized. The lists are solid enough, competitive enough, but it's me who screws up. I've been told I'm being too hard on myself and that it takes time, but I want you to teach me how not to suck, not necessarily how to build a list. I know my planning phase well enough, I just need to know how to ace the execution phase and avoid stupid mistakes.

If you could help, I would really appreciate it.

Chin up mate :-) as others have said don't be too hard on yourself and give it some time. The biggest thing to do is try not to repeat your mistakes. I know this sounds pretty obvious but this is really the only way you can improve.

What I would suggest is either doing a battle report on a few games and let people try and help you out with your mistakes or just take notes (literally paper and pen) of what does or doesn't work during a game.

Where do you play usually? Your local red shirt or store staff could even be able to give you a few pointers.

That's my $0.02 hope it helps

I play Tau usually, and I deep strike units in horrible positions, target the wrong things, forget to use markerlights and silly stuff like that. I equip and note everything but often I miss some critical details.

There's no local store, only my pro friend who is just as likely to table me while laughing as he is telling me where I screwed up after the painful experience.

I'll take a stab:

Deployment: Most critical errors can happen here.
1. You do NOT need to deploy EVERYTHING. In fact if it looks like you're outmatched, don't. null deployment
2. When you deploy, count the actual turns it takes from where you're thinking about deploying your toys, to the objectives. This helps you decide when it is or is not worth moving forward. Many players deploy too far forward because they are afraid they wont be able to reach objectives if they don't. Count. Count first and be as far back as makes sense while still reaching the objective in a reasonable amount of time. I can't even count how many times people started too close because their brain isnt telling them to very quickly do the math on this. Getting assaulted one turn sooner, or having the enemy come into range one turn later are huge.
3. Cover is your friend. Choose the side of the board that allows you the best cover after one move. Many people choose the side with the best starting cover. usually this just slows them down and doesnt allow them to advance as well. i prefer to look one move ahead and see which side of the board will give me better cover THEN.
4. Place objectives according to your armies strength. As these are placed before any units, consider your units. If your army prefers to control the middle (like many Grey Knights) then put objectives in the middle! If your force prefers to lean far forward, then 18 inches from the board edges works best. If your force likes to sit back, the center of your flanks might be best. and so on.

Common beginner errors are good to know, if only not to do them. Thank you for the list, I will be sure to learn and internalize them.

Okay now that I know you play Tau I can REALLY help.

Remembering things isn't something anyone can help you do. But with Tau, you can have a simple checklist.

1. Deploy objectvies where I will want my army to be at the END. If you use outflanking stuff and all that, the flanks are best. if you don't, closer to board edges are good so that you can go get them and it forces the enemy to go backwards and away from your main force to come get it back.

2. Deploy forces: See above

3. Movement:
Deep Strike
Move on normal reserves
Move normal stuff in a way that draws enemies away from the objectives. Null Deployment is a good way to control this.

4. Shooting
Markerlights first. ALWAYS first.
Kill speed first. Small units can kill entire large Tau ones in close combat so kill everything a unit has. Takes away their scoring ability, and their threat to you in melee.

5. Assault
JUMP MOVES! Make all your jump moves AFTER all your assaults. That way you know which way the assaults went. then you can decide how much closer or farther away you wanna' be.

Other thoughts: Tau empire suffer attrition fairly constantly throughout the game. They're not overly tough with rare exception and they have no defenses against the Psyker phase, which a large number of opponents have. So your number ONE weapon is movement and number two is shooting.

Tau shooting maintains its efficacy thanks to markerlights. So have two significant sources of them is important. Protecting those sources? Equally important. So don't be afraid to plant a Commander with the Drone swarm or whatever you use for markerlights... or don't be afraid to invest in extra drones to protect Pathfinders. All these measures result in your shooting phase being quite devastating. Savvy opponents will try to silence these units early. knowing that, you need to prepare accordingly when you get ready for battle.

Tau Empire are incredibly mobile. Do not gun line them. Be willing to give up some Supporting Fire in exchange for the ability to make the enemy have to split off its strengths and when they have enough distance between them that supporting each other isn't possible, you're doing it right. Supporting Fire is cool and all but it suckers many a general into clumping up and making it far too easy on certain forces to bum rush your entire force right off the table.

Example game in which I split myself up in order to take away his ability to pound me en masse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp78gM3Qt_Q

Last thing I'll say: short of going over your list, the reality is that the Tau Empire is highly effective at movement/deployment shenanigans. I would totally take advantage of this. Not only will opponents be far less practiced against such tactics, but it badly limits what they MUST do in order to make use of their cool toys. many enemies will come at you with an army that has X and Y trick to it. And it works fine when there's an actual target of significance for it to work on. But when you use the entire board and not just your gun line, many fangs can be removed.




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Also here is a batrep that can illustrate this idea more recently of how to spread the field against an enemy that REALLY wants to bash your skull in. Its incomplete at the end, but the gist is there. I do end up winning this game despite it being pretty up hill. I won because objective secured In the middle. he blows up the Devilfish but he runs out of time to kill the guys who poured out and couldn't quite reach them.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZmFyJnOi58

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PINic6XTffs

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJzqeqdh8Is

I will refrain from giving you overall tactical advice because every game is different. Focus on what holds you back. Why do you lose? If its because you forget stuff? Make a checklist. Is it because you make mistakes? Force yourself to do a 4 second reassement before deciding deep strikes.

Solid strategy is about checking your motives. What is important to achieve this turn and what isn't. First focus on playing your own perfect turn (achieve this turns objectives without fail). Than once you nail that, which is harder than it seems. Take a step further and achieve your goals while steering the opponents turn.

Honestly, don't sweat it too much. The game of 40k is very massive, and the amount of play that happens within it is borderline insignificant when it comes to any true data, so those competitive lists and tactics you have, could be very far from that.

An important thing to ask yourself each game is "What am I trying to accomplish?". The reason for this is that if you have a tier one list and army, but are playing it in a contrary way to what it wants, you'll struggle far more than playing a tier two list that fits more into your personal play style.

Also, play a lot of games, I mean a lot of games, to the point that losing doesn't bother you that much and you're willing to try out a lot of new things. I know when I was helping people test for MtG, we'd play like a hundred games or more with a deck per card we swapped in the deck, and those games had far less data points of influence than a single game of 40k, so it's absurd that people can assume anything is solved in this game when it's played so little.

Can you share your list and your plan for that list? (too many people work on the list but neglect the plan)

Lionheart713 wrote:
I need help to reach the level of not sucking. I realize it's always the stupid mistakes I make either before or during the game that cost me any hope of victory.

Well, not really much to do with that amount of information. I see you play Tau, and while many players will claim Tau is easy-mode win I personally have had little trouble getting victories against them with something as sub-par as Adepta Sororitas. Tau really need to have all their stuff working together. You must keep markerlights alive to boost heavy hitters, and you can't get bogged down in close combat. An enemy that rushes you from several points will put great pressure on you.

What you need to do is stop impulsively putting units in whatever spot seems good now - think ahead at least until next turn. Three suits deepstriking to hit an isolated enemy unit might be nice, but maybe you could use them closer to your own lines instead? Figure out what enemy units are the most powerful and either swamp them in suits or avoid them altogether while you kill everything else.

Most people say Tau is easy to play.. they are if you know how to play and use their army properly. But just playing for gaks and giggles with a non synergized list or a nooby is going to struggle a lot. Tau needs to know when and who to shoot. That just takes time learning units of different armies.. But generally as Tau you want to fire everything you can at one unit until they are completely destroyed, then move on to the next. Focus on close combat units,transports and long range ap2 (lascannons/grav guns). Alternatively if you are playing Mealstrom you want to wipe out your opponents mobile units first then outscore them with your JSJing suits.

Like most people have said the deployment and choosing who goes first plays a huge part. For deployment I would suggest trying to go second. People like to deploy their army in a giant line across their deployment zone.. Deploy your entire army (minus deepstrikers and outflankers) in one area to push through your opponents thin line while his other flank takes 2-3 turns to get into combat.

List composition is also a huge deciding factor for Tau. You have to have a balanced list with each unit supporting your other units (through board control, area of denial, markerlights, homing/positional relays) this is now even more beneficial with the new hunter contingent. When using this you want multiple small units (MSU) to take advantage of the shared rules without overkilling whatever you shoot at.

Tau are super mobile and you can use this to your advantage with JSJ (moving 2d6 in the assault phase). Try to hug buildings and hills that completely block line of sight so you can hope up, shoot everything, then hop back down out of line of sight.

You should also be deep striking on the enemies flanks, don't drop in farsight and his boys in the middle of his entire army trying to targetlock everything. You want to land on a weak flank or an objective heavy area and snipe 1-2 units then hop out of range of return fire.

Another thing new people seem to forget... Retreat!!! You can move your models backwards in the movement phase too. Don't be afraid to run away while shooting things, those extra 6,12 inches will give you a turn or two of extra shooting before they can charge you.

I would suggest your write all your special rules on little slips of paper and just lay them on the table next to your character that has them. That way neither you nor your opponent will forget what your dudes can do.

Don't worry about losing a lot!!! I'm literally in the same position as you.. The only person I play regularly has been playing for 15 years and has like 6000pts of every army. I rarely win but I have fun (most games hahaha) and learn more about Tau every game. After playing him for a year now whenever I play somebody else I just straight dominate them even though I still lose to my buddy about 80% of the time. Maybe have you and your buddy make lists then swap armies for a game? So you can learn how his army works and you can watch how a pro plays your army. Would be a fun learning experience for both of you probably, maybe your buddy will see some flaws in his list too


EDIT: Huge thing most people (myself included) forget to do which results in a loss... PLAY THE OBJECTIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't tell you how many times I've wiped out 90% of my opponents army but he still wins because the game ended and I wasn't holding any objectives. Once turn 4 hits your main priority is getting to the closest objective and surviving. Keep a giant/unique dice on the tallest terrain to mark the turn number and don't forget to change it!

I loose almost every game when I use to play. Nobody plays around here anymore that I know of so I don't game anymore.

All you can do is practice. Play, play and play some more. Just like anything in life, it's experience. Just like going to school you need to learn.

You keep saying you make stupid mistakes, as I tell my kids, it's only stupid if you keep doing it over and over again. Reason I say this is, no matter what we tell you, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again and know it, you are not learning and not matter what we tell you, you will do what you want. You are not using your brain. You are not learning. It almost seems you are playing on impulse. As others said, you need to think.

You are not learning from your mistakes. Learning is not, knowing and making a mistake and keep doing it, learning is making a mistake and try something else, and not doing the same "mistake" over and over again. After the first time, it's not a mistake anymore, it's just you doing what you want to do.

So learn and try new things. To do this, you need to play a lot. If we didn't need to practice and do it lots of times, we would all be sports athletes and playing professional sports and be jocks instead of nerds and geeks.

Want to win in 40K, play, and learn from your mistakes when you know you make them. Try different things. Don't always listen to what people say on the internent. The internet will tell you Tau should never assault. Well I played a Tau player once, and he assaulted my Hormagaunts and tied them up for over 3 or 4 turns before being wiped out. that is 2 or 3 turns they couldn't do anything else.

So don't be afraid to try unorthodox tactics.

Play it like Poker, Use bluffing and engage in some banter as well as it can sometimes make your opponent spill the beans (without him realizing it) on parts of his stategy
Saying stuff like 'You going to shoot my tanks?' can help as it sometimes baits people into doing it

Davor wrote:

So don't be afraid to try unorthodox tactics.

QFT


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commander dante wrote:
Play it like Poker, Use bluffing and engage in some banter as well as it can sometimes make your opponent spill the beans (without him realizing it) on parts of his stategy
Saying stuff like 'You going to shoot my tanks?' can help as it sometimes baits people into doing it

Not bad, but let me warn you. I had some dude bantering my ear off and in the back of my mind i was like "You dont even SEE your defeat coming nor that you are going to need every round you can get to avoid it" so i let him banter freely. Lol. I made sure i answered every question. He thought he was "putting me off my game" or distracting me or something. He was incredibly rude and condescending in every single thing he said and did. I played along.

His list was superior in most respects, but his aggression was high (and it makes sense as he had a D-Thirster, Castigator, Khorne dogs, a Heldrake and a Soulgrinder as the core of the list) and so i played the victim and really played up how "foolish" I was to clump things in the far corner of the board which his heldrake just couldnt resist trying to kill (putting it out of position) and stuff like that.

He kinda outsmarted himself. So i might be really careful about using banter as a "tactic". It CAN be ill received and frankly, if someone is playing along with the mind game... You might not be the one playing a mind game. Lol.

This was an extremely recent example at a tournament I won a couple weekends ago so its why I bring it up. The dude was pretty mad when he lost to my Adepta Sororitas. Hehehe.

Get fundamentally sound before you go to the banter thing is my exhortation to you.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Can you share your list and your plan for that list? (too many people work on the list but neglect the plan)

My list is:

Cadre Fireblade, 3x fire warrior squads of 5, 1x pathfinder squad of 8 with dedicated Devilfish, Hammerhead Gunship and Stormsurge deployed at first turn

Farsight deep strike with Buffmander, 3x Crisis Suits, 2x Riptides and a Broadside second turn

My plan is to move the Devilfish to cover and deploy the Pathfinders safely then spam markerlights, capture nearby objectives and shoot any enemy within range in first turn

Second turn would have deep strike force landing closer to the main force of the enemy and bring them pain

What happened was I had Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, Hammerhead and Stormsurge blasted and gone before my second turn, because I went last and a deep strike Grey Knights Paladins rolled supremely well, using Cleansing Flame in the middle of my formation and the only thing that kept me from being tabled was the Devilfish just out of range of their fire.


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 Jancoran wrote:
Okay now that I know you play Tau I can REALLY help.

Remembering things isn't something anyone can help you do. But with Tau, you can have a simple checklist.

...

Also here is a batrep that can illustrate this idea more recently of how to spread the field against an enemy that REALLY wants to bash your skull in. Its incomplete at the end, but the gist is there. I do end up winning this game despite it being pretty up hill. I won because objective secured In the middle. he blows up the Devilfish but he runs out of time to kill the guys who poured out and couldn't quite reach them.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZmFyJnOi58

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PINic6XTffs

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJzqeqdh8Is

I watched the whole thing, and I need to rewatch it one more time to appreciate it. But basically what I see is that you focused more on objectives than on crippling your enemy, and kept your forces pretty spread out.

switch to chaos space marines and every time you lose, blame the weak codex.

or play Eldar with 5 wraith knights and minimal cad tax/ that formation that allows 12 wraith knights.

1) The pathfinders are inefficient. Think about it, what is the purpose of pathfinders? Laying 2, maybe 3 markers on an enemy squad. Having 8 wastes many of those markers, having two smaller squads would be more efficient.

Also, what do they do from a Devilfish? The role of the fish is to grant mobility to seize objectives, it wants to be Dedicated to an Obj Sec unit so it gets Obj Sec as well. And I don't think Pathfinders are? Correct me if I'm wrong?

The other thing is, nobody can shoot out of the Devilfish. So ultimately you want units inside it that don't care if they can't shoot initially who make up for it later-think about for instance Breachers. They can't shoot turn one because they aren't in range but if they jet forward, hop out 3" away from an enemy and unload they totally make up for it.

2) deep striking Riptides and broadsides really doesn't accomplish anything. They're big, and durable already. They aren't gonna die T1- not with 6 wounds in a riptide. What they are gonna do T1 if they're on the board is hurt something bad. Riptides taking ignores cover from Markers is absolutely brutal! And ion accelerators have what? 60" range? They're NEVER gonna not have a target.

3) what's Farsight adding here? Dropping in with a suicide melta squad he just kind of stands around and offers moral support. That sword isn't gonna save you if a real melee unit charges in. What is gonna save you is if the suits drop in, pop some tanks, and you have enough fire support from your Riptides and Broadsides already on the board to hammer the enemy as you crack them out of their tanks.

4) Hammerheads aren't real "self sufficient" units. They need lots of marker support to operate, markers you'd rather your Stormsurge have. If you're really sold on having a small force down T1, you want it to be scary but disposable. I would swap that hammer for a Skyray.

If you want the deep strikers, here's what id do.

- Pathfinders go to two squads of five, on foot, so you have two markers to setup your two heavy units

-Swap hammer for Skyray. Marker up, and fire all those seekers T1 to blow something away. Use the other markers for D missiles from Stormsurge.

 Jancoran wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

commander dante wrote:
Play it like Poker, Use bluffing and engage in some banter as well as it can sometimes make your opponent spill the beans (without him realizing it) on parts of his stategy
Saying stuff like 'You going to shoot my tanks?' can help as it sometimes baits people into doing it

Not bad, but let me warn you. I had some dude bantering my ear off and in the back of my mind i was like "You dont even SEE your defeat coming nor that you are going to need every round you can get to avoid it" so i let him banter freely. Lol. I made sure i answered every question. He thought he was "putting me off my game" or distracting me or something. He was incredibly rude and condescending in every single thing he said and did. I played along.

His list was superior in most respects, but his aggression was high (and it makes sense as he had a D-Thirster, Castigator, Khorne dogs, a Heldrake and a Soulgrinder as the core of the list) and so i played the victim and really played up how "foolish" I was to clump things in the far corner of the board which his heldrake just couldnt resist trying to kill (putting it out of position) and stuff like that.

He kinda outsmarted himself. So i might be really careful about using banter as a "tactic". It CAN be ill received and frankly, if someone is playing along with the mind game... You might not be the one playing a mind game. Lol.

This was an extremely recent example at a tournament I won a couple weekends ago so its why I bring it up. The dude was pretty mad when he lost to my Adepta Sororitas. Hehehe.

Get fundamentally sound before you go to the banter thing is my exhortation to you.

That is so funny but yet so sad. So sad to see a geek and or nerd behave like this. Didn't a lot of us got picked on in high school from "jocks" who behaved like this? Now times have changed and we the ones who got picked on or teased or not accepted behave like the people who we despised or didn't like in school.

Shameful. So glad you won and gave it to him.

Hang in there dude! I started back up in early 2013, dusted off all my 2nd & 3rd edition Blood Angels, bought their newest (5th ed) codex, and proceeded to get my @$$ handed to me over the next two years. But I got better and better by doing 3 things:

Play to the game, not to annihilation.
Not every game should be about who can kill who faster. The maelstrom missions and various other tournament scenarios make it so that any army can compete. Others have posted about objective placement above so I won't go into detail, but I know Tau can definitely use this to their advantage.

Know your army inside and out.
I don't have a head for rules, and I know that's why I'll never be a top tier player. I can't remember what every other army does. But I can know mine like the back of my hand. Know how everything stacks, compliments and affects each other is vital to how you eventually build and play your army.

Knowing how to apply overwhelming force to your enemy.
Ultimately this is about a shooty and choppy game. So when you deploy or position to kill something, make sure that it is a worthwhile target that will increase your chances of winning. This is kind of vague, I know, so for example: My last game I played an Eldar/Dark Eldar army against a War Convocation list. He had no fliers and only one unit with Skyfire. I had a Razorwing coming in and it could rule the sky if his skyfire unit died. So, despite somewhat juicier targets, I killed the skyfire dunewalker and my Razorwing went on to go untouched and helped me immensely.

Practice practice practice! I know its been said before but learn from your mistakes and it will all start to come together. I've lost or tied many more games than I've won, and you know what? Some of those losses and ties were the most fun I've had playing this game.

I am still a pretty bad 40k player, I think. But I've had a really fun time learning to be better. And sometimes all it takes is for the feel of an army to really click with you. Blood Angels and Space Marines were my first army. I Then moved to Chaos Space Marines. I've since adopted Dark Eldar and Eldar and things just feel right about this current army. I'm not using the point-and-click, everyone is gonna hate me list, but it is competitive. The speed and feel of the Dark Eldar are great for my style of play and I've never said that about BA, SMs or CSMs.

Anyway, I hope this was encouraging. Stick with it man! Cheers!

Well, we have several players here who have problems with gaming.
That means, moving units when they need to move, utilize their shooty weapons, and when to charge or not. Moreover, the problem starts with positioning the units. A Devastator unit deployed on a flank and with a larger piece in the centre will do almost nothing in the game if the enemy refuses the flank they are deployed.
These are some of the major issues players have. How to cope with this? Deployment is often key. Planning ahead at least one turn is important. Army composition is another issue.

For wargames in general here are a few tips:

Have a plan (for your list), but remember that the plan needs tweaking when: you find out what your opponent is (try to have a plan for most different enemies before hand), when you see the battlefield (taking terrain, objectives and mission into account) and after every turn (things die, objectives are failed or achieved, etc.).

Realize that you have a limited force, you cannot cast all the powers, hold everything or win everywhere on the board. You have to give/neglect one thing in order to achieve another, which is why you need to prioritize. Have clear priorities (i.e rank your objectives) and do/ work toward those first, that way you don't get side tracked or forget to do important things.

Have a reason for everything (from putting something in your list to prioritizing a particular objective), you should have an answer if someone were to ask why you are doing something.

Note by objectives I don't necessarily mean tactical 40k objectives, these can also be things like: "take out that unit"' "control that area" or "bring force to bear here".

If you are trying to improve reflect on all your games, discuss it with your opponent if they will (most not douches enjoy having a post-game chat) and take note of what your mistakes were and what you learned from them. Have a campaign journal and write your battle reports down (or even post them for our comments), this requires you to think your battle through.

Lionheart713 wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Can you share your list and your plan for that list? (too many people work on the list but neglect the plan)

My list is:
Cadre Fireblade, 3x fire warrior squads of 5, 1x pathfinder squad of 8 with dedicated Devilfish, Hammerhead Gunship and Stormsurge deployed at first turn
Farsight deep strike with Buffmander, 3x Crisis Suits, 2x Riptides and a Broadside second turn
My plan is to move the Devilfish to cover and deploy the Pathfinders safely then spam markerlights, capture nearby objectives and shoot any enemy within range in first turn
Second turn would have deep strike force landing closer to the main force of the enemy and bring them pain
What happened was I had Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, Hammerhead and Stormsurge blasted and gone before my second turn, because I went last and a deep strike Grey Knights Paladins rolled supremely well, using Cleansing Flame in the middle of my formation and the only thing that kept me from being tabled was the Devilfish just out of range of their fire.

Keeping a big chunk of your army in reserve means that everything on that table T1 is going to get hit much harder. If you're going to do that you need to make sure you keep as much of it tucked away as possible. Try deploying everything unless there's something in your opponent's list that you really need to deep strike in to kill, you'll find the army easier to play that way.

Davor wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

commander dante wrote:
Play it like Poker, Use bluffing and engage in some banter as well as it can sometimes make your opponent spill the beans (without him realizing it) on parts of his stategy
Saying stuff like 'You going to shoot my tanks?' can help as it sometimes baits people into doing it

Not bad, but let me warn you. I had some dude bantering my ear off and in the back of my mind i was like "You dont even SEE your defeat coming nor that you are going to need every round you can get to avoid it" so i let him banter freely. Lol. I made sure i answered every question. He thought he was "putting me off my game" or distracting me or something. He was incredibly rude and condescending in every single thing he said and did. I played along.

His list was superior in most respects, but his aggression was high (and it makes sense as he had a D-Thirster, Castigator, Khorne dogs, a Heldrake and a Soulgrinder as the core of the list) and so i played the victim and really played up how "foolish" I was to clump things in the far corner of the board which his heldrake just couldnt resist trying to kill (putting it out of position) and stuff like that.

He kinda outsmarted himself. So i might be really careful about using banter as a "tactic". It CAN be ill received and frankly, if someone is playing along with the mind game... You might not be the one playing a mind game. Lol.

This was an extremely recent example at a tournament I won a couple weekends ago so its why I bring it up. The dude was pretty mad when he lost to my Adepta Sororitas. Hehehe.

Get fundamentally sound before you go to the banter thing is my exhortation to you.

That is so funny but yet so sad. So sad to see a geek and or nerd behave like this. Didn't a lot of us got picked on in high school from "jocks" who behaved like this? Now times have changed and we the ones who got picked on or teased or not accepted behave like the people who we despised or didn't like in school.

Shameful. So glad you won and gave it to him.

It was my absolute pleasure. he embarassed himself to a total stranger. This was an out of town tournament so he didnt know me rom ADAM and he acted this way. It's what he gets. anywho, back to the discussion at hand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:


1) The pathfinders are inefficient. Think about it, what is the purpose of pathfinders? Laying 2, maybe 3 markers on an enemy squad. Having 8 wastes many of those markers, having two smaller squads would be more efficient.

Also, what do they do from a Devilfish? The role of the fish is to grant mobility to seize objectives, it wants to be Dedicated to an Obj Sec unit so it gets Obj Sec as well. And I don't think Pathfinders are? Correct me if I'm wrong?

The other thing is, nobody can shoot out of the Devilfish. So ultimately you want units inside it that don't care if they can't shoot initially who make up for it later-think about for instance Breachers. They can't shoot turn one because they aren't in range but if they jet forward, hop out 3" away from an enemy and unload they totally make up for it.

2) deep striking Riptides and broadsides really doesn't accomplish anything.

3) what's Farsight adding here? Dropping in with a suicide melta squad he just kind of stands around and offers moral support. That sword isn't gonna save you if a real melee unit charges in. What is gonna save you is if the suits drop in, pop some tanks, and you have enough fire support from your Riptides and Broadsides already on the board to hammer the enemy as you crack them out of their tanks.

4) Hammerheads aren't real "self sufficient" units. They need lots of marker support to operate, markers you'd rather your Stormsurge have. If you're really sold on having a small force down T1, you want it to be scary but disposable. I would swap that hammer for a Skyray.

If you want the deep strikers, here's what id do.

- Pathfinders go to two squads of five, on foot, so you have two markers to setup your two heavy units

-Swap hammer for Skyray. Marker up, and fire all those seekers T1 to blow something away. Use the other markers for D missiles from Stormsurge.

A few things here.

First, Pathfinders are not inefficient unless you use them for Markerlights. Don't. Use them as assassins. They can outflank and if you're clever, you can annihilate very important targets. Link for an example of the proper use of Pathfinders for this purpose. The answer regarding "what do they do with a Devilfish" is this: The Devilfish is available to provide cover from all but the Pathfinders chosen target if you so desire. the link will help you appreciate the usage.

2: Broadsides now DO have a valuable function. The new formation allows them to be relentless and if an enemy has overcommitted to an advance, dropping them in a corner too far for the enemy to ever reach by games in may well suit you. Riptides? Probably want them firing from the word go, i agree there. But the Riptides can be valuable for Deep Striking in the Relic Mission where Secondary objectives can be very important. It also does the same thing as the Broadside: simply makes it that much more unlikely the enemy can kill it or even threaten it. So depending on the enemy (say, Dark eldar who can assure that the Riptide is in melee from turn 2 forward) you may want to do this, assuming you know your enemy well enough and they can actually do it. I wouldnt recmmend this normally but Never? I wouldn't say never.

Davor wrote:
I loose almost every game when I use to play. Nobody plays around here anymore that I know of so I don't game anymore.

All you can do is practice. Play, play and play some more. Just like anything in life, it's experience. Just like going to school you need to learn.

You keep saying you make stupid mistakes, as I tell my kids, it's only stupid if you keep doing it over and over again. Reason I say this is, no matter what we tell you, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again and know it, you are not learning and not matter what we tell you, you will do what you want. You are not using your brain. You are not learning. It almost seems you are playing on impulse. As others said, you need to think.

You are not learning from your mistakes. Learning is not, knowing and making a mistake and keep doing it, learning is making a mistake and try something else, and not doing the same "mistake" over and over again. After the first time, it's not a mistake anymore, it's just you doing what you want to do.

So learn and try new things. To do this, you need to play a lot. If we didn't need to practice and do it lots of times, we would all be sports athletes and playing professional sports and be jocks instead of nerds and geeks.

Want to win in 40K, play, and learn from your mistakes when you know you make them. Try different things. Don't always listen to what people say on the internent. The internet will tell you Tau should never assault. Well I played a Tau player once, and he assaulted my Hormagaunts and tied them up for over 3 or 4 turns before being wiped out. that is 2 or 3 turns they couldn't do anything else.

So don't be afraid to try unorthodox tactics.

This is true and very inspirational.

And to OP. Let me tell you this. During 6th ed, I rejoined 40k since 4th and 5th ed. And during a tourney, I got tabled 3 times in a row. I was playing tau as well, and its shown that in 6th ed tau was top tier. Still I got trashed and learnt from it.

Now in 7th ed, I still get defeated quite a bit, but I learnt from my mistake and learnt from the games I played to become better. The few recent tourneys had me winning more games than I have lost. Of course, there are players that are super pro but that's the fun of it. It challenges you. If you don't feel challenged then what is the point in the first place?

So go out there and learn from your friends! Its actually alot more fun to lose and learn new things, than to win and stay stagnant for the rest of the game.

EDIT: Oh and for me now, currently I use pathfinder to light things up. This is their secondary use. Their primary use is actually bait. If they dont kill them, there will be markers on opponent's unit. If they go after them, then my other things get to shoot you more, and this is the new hunter contingent use of my fast attack slot. I don't have piranhas so I have to improvise! This is the other beauty of 40k!

The internet will tell you Tau never assault because 99% of the time its the correct thing to do, I can count on one hand the times I've assaulted with tau units and its always either Riptide or Farsight. Honestly, assaulting is a trap for tau and people promoting unorthodox tactics will always point to one or two examples where it worked. If you're loosing so often don't think about assaulting, it is not the strategy that you're missing.

If you're always deep striking incorrectly, well..... think to yourself, where do you want your deep striking unit. What do you want it to do. After it has done this, what will the opponent do to it and do you want that to happen.

This is true for your movement phase as well. Think about what your opponent can do and if you want that to happen. It is often the better choice to conserve your units vs. hurting theirs a little.

Tell us how you're loosing and we can help. Maybe small report for say... last three games?

Are you loosing objectives?

Are you getting tabled, if yes, what is hurting you?