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Hi, folks! Got 2 questions about these not-so-new formations inside Mont'ka book.

Piranha Firestorm Wing, Rearm and Refuel special rule:

If all of the surviving models from a unit in this Formation are within 6" of a table edge at the end of their Movement Phase, the unit can enter Ongoing Reserves. When it returns to play, it does so at full strength with any damage repaired and Drones and seeker missiles replaced.

Does this mean that the unit comes back with the original number of piranhas as well? I mean, if I start with a unit of 5 Piranhas, lose 4 and go Reserves with the remaining one - will it come back with other 4 Piranhas?

Drone-net VX1-0, Collective Targeting Data special rule:

In the Shooting Phase, add 1 to the Ballistic Skill of all Drones (including Drones that are not part of the Formation) as long as at least two units from this Formation are on the battlefield.

Is the BS bonus stackable? If I field 4 detachments of this formation, will every drone in my army receive +4BS?
Also, will such bonuses work with Interceptor? I think no.

On the Piranhas, yes, that's how I read it.

"BRB -> Special Rules -> A Compendium of Special Rules" wrote:Unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once. However, the effects of multiple different special rules are cumulative.

I'm thinking that this means no +4 BS from having 4 formations. As is so often the case, though, I can see some small amount of wiggle room.

Mallich wrote:

"BRB -> Special Rules -> A Compendium of Special Rules" wrote:Unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once. However, the effects of multiple different special rules are cumulative.

I'm thinking that this means no +4 BS from having 4 formations. As is so often the case, though, I can see some small amount of wiggle room.

What you quoted is I believe is referring to USR and this is not a USR.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Mallich wrote:

"BRB -> Special Rules -> A Compendium of Special Rules" wrote:Unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once. However, the effects of multiple different special rules are cumulative.

I'm thinking that this means no +4 BS from having 4 formations. As is so often the case, though, I can see some small amount of wiggle room.

What you quoted is I believe is referring to USR and this is not a USR.

There is no such thing as a USR anymore only special rules, of which Collective Targeting Data is one. The quoted paragraph applies to all special rules.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Hi, folks! Got 2 questions about these not-so-new formations inside Mont'ka book.

Piranha Firestorm Wing, Rearm and Refuel special rule:

If all of the surviving models from a unit in this Formation are within 6" of a table edge at the end of their Movement Phase, the unit can enter Ongoing Reserves. When it returns to play, it does so at full strength with any damage repaired and Drones and seeker missiles replaced.

Does this mean that the unit comes back with the original number of piranhas as well? I mean, if I start with a unit of 5 Piranhas, lose 4 and go Reserves with the remaining one - will it come back with other 4 Piranhas?

Drone-net VX1-0, Collective Targeting Data special rule:

In the Shooting Phase, add 1 to the Ballistic Skill of all Drones (including Drones that are not part of the Formation) as long as at least two units from this Formation are on the battlefield.

Is the BS bonus stackable? If I field 4 detachments of this formation, will every drone in my army receive +4BS?
Also, will such bonuses work with Interceptor? I think no.

I took that to mean all Hull Points are restored on the remaining Piranhas, and their drones replaced and missiles re-stocked.

 Homeskillet wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Hi, folks! Got 2 questions about these not-so-new formations inside Mont'ka book.

Piranha Firestorm Wing, Rearm and Refuel special rule:

If all of the surviving models from a unit in this Formation are within 6" of a table edge at the end of their Movement Phase, the unit can enter Ongoing Reserves. When it returns to play, it does so at full strength with any damage repaired and Drones and seeker missiles replaced.

Does this mean that the unit comes back with the original number of piranhas as well? I mean, if I start with a unit of 5 Piranhas, lose 4 and go Reserves with the remaining one - will it come back with other 4 Piranhas?

Drone-net VX1-0, Collective Targeting Data special rule:

In the Shooting Phase, add 1 to the Ballistic Skill of all Drones (including Drones that are not part of the Formation) as long as at least two units from this Formation are on the battlefield.

Is the BS bonus stackable? If I field 4 detachments of this formation, will every drone in my army receive +4BS?
Also, will such bonuses work with Interceptor? I think no.

I took that to mean all Hull Points are restored on the remaining Piranhas, and their drones replaced and missiles re-stocked.

It says the unit is at full strength

For precedent, look at the function of other rules that do/have allowed units to respawn. I know both old, obsolete, infinite guardsmen worked this way, and current, evil, infinite guardsmen works this way now.

maceria wrote:
For precedent, look at the function of other rules that do/have allowed units to respawn. I know both old, obsolete, infinite guardsmen worked this way, and current, evil, infinite guardsmen works this way now.

But this is not a respawn, exactly. If the unit is destroyed before it can reach the board edge, it is not able to return. That makes it much different from the Tyranid Formation that recycles the shooty bugs which requires the unit to be destroyed before it is restored. That makes it a rare case with no precedent since 3rd Edition as far as I have heard of. There may be a Forgeworld situation like this, but I am unfamiliar with all the extensive possibilities they provide.

The subject is "the unit", and it returns at "full strength". THe only sensible meaning of this is that allvehicles are returned and all vehicles have all weapons, hull points etc.

Exactly what Nos says. There is zero support for any other interpretation.

Dear god i never even thought of that. So they are literally impossible to stop doing the Drone Factory tactic unless you can somehow Interceptor kill the entire damn unit of 5 piranhas.

The Drone Net thing wouldnt stack though, as thats a special rule. Rules do not stack. Only reason we can squeeze +2BS on our MCs is because theres 3 separate rules adding +1BS (Coord Fire, Specific Formation, and Fire Team). Same effect is not the same as same rule.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The subject is "the unit", and it returns at "full strength". THe only sensible meaning of this is that allvehicles are returned and all vehicles have all weapons, hull points etc.

That is how I read the RAW. It strikes me as an example of something that is almost certainly not RAI, because if it were RAI they would have spelled it out more. They outlined drones, seeker missiles and hull points, and then forgot to list dead models?

But RAW usually trumps RAI, and so it sucks to play against Tau.

... Do the drones benefit from the recycling as well? They're still a unit from the detachment, right?

So you have your unit of 10 drones, and if the enemy doesn't kill them all then they can recycle and come back on at full strength the next turn. Is that right?

...
Don't bother firing seekers ever, just move your piranhas on and off the board depositing 500pts of free Drones every turn.

Trasvi wrote:
... Do the drones benefit from the recycling as well? They're still a unit from the detachment, right?

So you have your unit of 10 drones, and if the enemy doesn't kill them all then they can recycle and come back on at full strength the next turn. Is that right?

I don't believe the drones are a unit from the detachment . Yes they form a unit when all the piranha detach them , but they are not "from" the detachment.

Resurrecting this thread after as in other threads I've seen people talking garbage about how the Piranha Firestorm Wing works.

Word by word from the Mont'ka book wrote:
Rearm and Refuel: If all of the surviving models from a unit in this Formatoin are within 6" of a table edge at the end of their Movement phase, the unit can enter Ongoing Reserves. When it returns to play, it does so at full strength with any damage repaired and Drones and seeker missiles replaced.

To me it is blindingly obvious that not only are lost hull points / drones and spent seeker missiles replenished, but also the number of Piranhas themselves are restored to the original full strength of the unit.

Could some of those who think that is not the case (Pain4Pleasure, hello?) say, based on the rules as written, why they think that way?

Additionally, as attached drones are treated as embarked passengers until they are detached in their movement phase, they will also be replenished despite being on board.

Codex: Tau Empire pg 119 wrote:
All Drones from a vehicle or vehicle squadron must detach at the same time - they then form a single new unit.

Thus as the Formation consists of 4 Piranha units, the drones make a comeback.

Yep, that's how it reads. Full replacement of models, stats, and wargear. Also, you can definitely arrive at the begining of the movement phase and leave at the end of the same movement phase to replenish, having dropped off the Drones inbetween. It is a true Drone Factory.

SJ

tag8833 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The subject is "the unit", and it returns at "full strength". THe only sensible meaning of this is that allvehicles are returned and all vehicles have all weapons, hull points etc.

That is how I read the RAW. It strikes me as an example of something that is almost certainly not RAI, because if it were RAI they would have spelled it out more. They outlined drones, seeker missiles and hull points, and then forgot to list dead models?

But RAW usually trumps RAI, and so it sucks to play against Tau.

I think they spelled it out as clearly as they do any rule. Its their writing style. "Full strength" is pretty common nomenclature.