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I think this is a fit for the Tactics thread... generally I'm looking for help on advantageous builds and all-comers tactics.

I have an old Marine army that needs a reboot. I'm leaning toward White Scars, with all the bikes and transports I've got, plus that seems like a fun play style. I've heard of the Land Speeder / Whirlwind combo, but I'm not sure where to find the rules for it. I'd like the next thing I spend big on to be flyers, so I'm not likely to go buy 6 drop pods or 3 Land Raiders or a pile of Terminators to take a completely new direction with this army. I can make smaller purchases as needed-- extra bikes, filling obvious holes, etc. I will ultimately join the flyer game, but for now I just want to get these guys back on the table:

40+ Marines with a mix of specials and heavies (lots of missile launchers for some reason... no grav... yet)
10-ish Sergeant models with various weapons (but no combi-weapons... yet)
10 Assault Marines with Jump Packs
10 Deathwatch Marines-- I think running these as Sternguard or Vanguard might be the way?
5 Grey Knights terminators (the old ornate metal ones)
10+ Scouts, including snipers, heavy bolter, missile launcher
Captain/Librarian/Chaplain/Inquisitor HQ models, plus Techmarines, Apothecaries, Banners, etc.
Vindicare and Culexus Assassins
6 Rhinos/Razorbacks/Whirlwinds (I have the bits to build out almost any configuration and make magnetized swaps)
3 Land Speeders (with parts for Typhoons)
2 Attack Bikes
8 Bikes (with some parts for HQ options-- Apothecary, Captain, etc.)
2 Dreds (with a variety of arms for CC/anti-horde/anti-armor configurations)

So, which builds am I sort of close to with that collection? Which chapters and chapter tactics seem sensible? Which formations should I think about? Which flyers should I put on my long term shopping list? I usually play at 1850 and 2000, but I'm also interested in Marines as a smaller allied force to my Sisters of Battle.

Thanks in advance! This forum has been instrumental in my 7E return to the hobby, and getting the Battle Sisters to a winning record... hopefully you can do the same for my Marines.

So I think White Scars could be a good direction with the army, buuut White Scars can pretty much make a list entirely out of bikes.

With the number of basic marines you have and the basic transports, you might do well with Ultramarines tactics, Iron Hands, or Imperial Fists.

Ultramarines will get you the most mileage out of the tactical marines. Iron Hands might make all of your marines a little more durable and the transports a little tougher when holding objectives.

With the current models I would go with 2 demi companies, for a full company. This gets you all of the razorbacks for free!! pay for the upgrades on them, but otherwise free points.

So 1st Demi Company:
Chaplain
3 tactical squads, each with meltagun in razorbacks
Land Speeder Typhoon squad
5-man devastator squad w/ grav cannons if you can and stick them in a razorback or rhino. Otherwise go 2 ML/2Lascannon and stick them in terrain

2nd demi company:
Captain, close combat geared on a bike.
4-man biker command squad w/ grav-guns
3 tactical squads each with flamer in razorbacks
4-man bike squad w/ grav-guns
5-man devastator squad (same as above)


If you go Ultramarines with this setup you will be making use of the chapter tactics the entire game. And you get 6 razorbacks for free. or possibly 8 if you put the devastators in them. But since you only have 6 models, I would leave devastators on foot and hide them in terrain.

The razorbacks with all of the tac squads in them will run forward as a wall and aim for objectives and to pick off weak units. The biker squads will probably be the focal point of all enemy fire, so be careful with them. They can also bring down tough units with the grav-weaponry. Your landspeeders will be able to put down a lot of fire but are glass cannons so dont expect them to live long.

As far as flyers go, I would go with 2 stormtalons and a stormraven. This gets you a formation so you dont have to worry about filling in fast attack slots on a FOC. These 3 flyers all come in on one reserve roll and can lay down a lot of fire. they are gunships to the fullest. I like the Cyclone Missile Launcher on the stormtalons, and make sure to get the Multi-melta on the stormraven.

Also unless you really have the extra points for it and dont know what else to do, never bring a transport on the stormraven. If you do, the dreadnought is maybe a good fit to come in on it. but otherwise you risk losing a lot if it gets shot down.

Sweet, thanks! Stormtalons and Stormraven seem to be the go-to. Can you mix Chapters in a full company and still get the transport deal? Iron Hands and White Scars would seem to be a good mix if so. I need to find some off-brand resin grav guns somewhere... that seems to be essential, especially where bikes are concerned. I'm not too worried with maximizing my infantry models unless it makes tactical sense to do so. My Battle Sisters have been winning games MSU style, grabbing more objectives on any given turn that a higher-costed opponent can. I don't know if that works as well with marines, but with cheap or free transports, I may be able to use similar tactics. I went through the bits box tonight and found the fixins for Razorbacks: 1 TL Assault Cannon, 2 TL Lascannon, 3 TL Heavy Bolters, are Autocannons even a thing???, 3 TL Multi Meltas (???), and a TL Heavy Flamer (???).

 Icculus wrote:
So I think White Scars could be a good direction with the army, buuut White Scars can pretty much make a list entirely out of bikes.

With the number of basic marines you have and the basic transports, you might do well with Ultramarines tactics, Iron Hands, or Imperial Fists.

Ultramarines will get you the most mileage out of the tactical marines. Iron Hands might make all of your marines a little more durable and the transports a little tougher when holding objectives.

With the current models I would go with 2 demi companies, for a full company. This gets you all of the razorbacks for free!! pay for the upgrades on them, but otherwise free points.

So 1st Demi Company:
Chaplain
3 tactical squads, each with meltagun in razorbacks
Land Speeder Typhoon squad
5-man devastator squad w/ grav cannons if you can and stick them in a razorback or rhino. Otherwise go 2 ML/2Lascannon and stick them in terrain

2nd demi company:
Captain, close combat geared on a bike.
4-man biker command squad w/ grav-guns
3 tactical squads each with flamer in razorbacks
4-man bike squad w/ grav-guns
5-man devastator squad (same as above)


If you go Ultramarines with this setup you will be making use of the chapter tactics the entire game. And you get 6 razorbacks for free. or possibly 8 if you put the devastators in them. But since you only have 6 models, I would leave devastators on foot and hide them in terrain.

The razorbacks with all of the tac squads in them will run forward as a wall and aim for objectives and to pick off weak units. The biker squads will probably be the focal point of all enemy fire, so be careful with them. They can also bring down tough units with the grav-weaponry. Your landspeeders will be able to put down a lot of fire but are glass cannons so dont expect them to live long.

As far as flyers go, I would go with 2 stormtalons and a stormraven. This gets you a formation so you dont have to worry about filling in fast attack slots on a FOC. These 3 flyers all come in on one reserve roll and can lay down a lot of fire. they are gunships to the fullest. I like the Cyclone Missile Launcher on the stormtalons, and make sure to get the Multi-melta on the stormraven.

Also unless you really have the extra points for it and dont know what else to do, never bring a transport on the stormraven. If you do, the dreadnought is maybe a good fit to come in on it. but otherwise you risk losing a lot if it gets shot down.

Command Squads have to have 5 models.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
[snip]

Command Squads have to have 5 models.

This could easily be mitigated by changing the bike squad to three bikes, and giving the Command Squad a 5th bike, preferably an Apothecary since it makes the squad more survivable.

Yeah, sorry for my short-hand list and the error with the command squad. 5-man command squad with apothecary is a good unit Then the 3-man minimum bike squad is a good unit, fragile, but if they can be out of sight for a bit then can be a nice flanking unit.But since you only have 8 bikes, this would cause a problem with getting a captain on a bike. So you could either do

a 5-man command with a biker captain geared for close combat and just drop the bike squad and add another landspeeder.

OR you could do the command squad, a 3-man min-sized bike squad and put the captain with one of the tac units.



I would recommend the biker captain and having two units of landspeeders. I dont think one 3-man bike squad will do much, and the captain will do a lot more if with that command squad.

Sweet, thanks everyone, and sorry for the delay. It sounds like 5-bike command plus 3-bike troop is the way to go until I can pick up a few more bikes. I did acquire 4 grav guns last week on a Thanksgiving trip to CA, so that's just waiting on conversions. I'll take advantage of melta tac squads in free Razorbacks (although I don't have HBs for all of my turrets, so I'll need to pay the upgrade on some). I think I can do justice to the Dev squads, but I'm tempted to try the Land Speeder-guided Whirlwind squadron... does that have enough versatility for an all-comers list? And yes, the Stormflyer formation will be the thing... after I sell $187 worth of snowboards and bike parts on Craigslist.

Thanks, keep the good advice coming!