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Hey

I was just wondering if everyone thinks there will be a chaos or evil cersion of sigmites? They already mention how some miss there past life ect so does this hint at the evil or chaos version ?

Maybe not a chaos group, but a rogue group who turn their backs of Sigmar would be fun. The interesting twist is they wouldn't be immortal either.

I'd guess undead before chaos. Nagash is pissed they cheat the rules of life and death, they should travel to his realm instead of back to Azyrheim.

A wild guess is, Balthazar Gelt with a group of Stormcast.

Since he is master alchemist, incarnate of metal and a necromancer who believe in fighting fire(endless horde of daemon) with fire(resurrect-able undead/immortal). He suited the role of the designer of Stormcast better then barbarian king or dwarven god of blacksmith, and most incarnate survived.

Um... just a wild guess, you don't have to agree with me, but if you find any "hole" in this theory, please lemme know.

I can see there being Undead Stormcast if Nagash works out how to intercept their souls, that would be pretty awesome.

I can see some Stormcast becoming disgruntled with the whole meatgrinder style battles and their recycled souls but I don't think they would ever become full on chaos, im pretty sure they are polar opposites. Also when the souls get recycled they lose their personality and memories so I can see them eventually becoming Automatons (kinda like Thousand Sons) and then not having the individuality in order to rebel and go over to the chaos side.

Nerm86 wrote:
I can see there being Undead Stormcast if Nagash works out how to intercept their souls, that would be pretty awesome.

I can see some Stormcast becoming disgruntled with the whole meatgrinder style battles and their recycled souls but I don't think they would ever become full on chaos, im pretty sure they are polar opposites. Also when the souls get recycled they lose their personality and memories so I can see them eventually becoming Automatons (kinda like Thousand Sons) and then not having the individuality in order to rebel and go over to the chaos side.

Add to this the fact that Sigmar ran away to leave everyone to die to chaos TWICE now, there's a good possibility he leaves again, leaving the Stormcast Eternals to their own devices. similar to the Emperor when he was entombed on his throne, everyone was left to interpret his will as they saw fit.

So I considered starting a new thread to ask this, but I can tie it into this topic so I'll ask here.

Why did Sigmar bother giving his sigmarines personalities/emotions/free will to begin with?

My understanding is that rather than dying they loose little bits of themselves, so while they don't do it is supposed to be a fate worse than death. But an argument can be made unthinking line soldiers are a lot better. Removing emotion means no one flees, no one loots the cities you're trying to save, no one kills out of anger. Removing or limiting free will would be a sure way to stop them falling to chaos as well.

So why does he allow that? I find it hard to believe it was out of respect for the souls of the great heroes that he turned into Sigmarines, given that as far as I am aware he never asked them if they wanted to be sigmarines, he basically just forced them into servitude anyway.

I think it's a given that they will eventually make traitor sigmarines at some point. Though, the new Khorne minis are pretty armory looking, so maybe they wouldn't make them chaos? I think a nagash/undead twist would be fun and a more unexpected twist. Couldn't Nagash just copy off Sigmar and build big armor shells and put mean souls in them instead of nice ones?

 jonolikespie wrote:
So I considered starting a new thread to ask this, but I can tie it into this topic so I'll ask here.

Why did Sigmar bother giving his sigmarines personalities/emotions/free will to begin with?

My understanding is that rather than dying they loose little bits of themselves, so while they don't do it is supposed to be a fate worse than death. But an argument can be made unthinking line soldiers are a lot better. Removing emotion means no one flees, no one loots the cities you're trying to save, no one kills out of anger. Removing or limiting free will would be a sure way to stop them falling to chaos as well.

So why does he allow that? I find it hard to believe it was out of respect for the souls of the great heroes that he turned into Sigmarines, given that as far as I am aware he never asked them if they wanted to be sigmarines, he basically just forced them into servitude anyway.

Because ideally, the soldiers would never die & would keep all memories/parts of themselves, so at the end of the war they can return to normal lives.

Obviously, that's not going to happen, but the idea is to keep them as human as possible for as long as he can, lest he become just another Chaos God himself with the Stormcast being his daemons (shards of himself, no true will or thoughts of their own. Just extensions of him).

Basically, Sigmar wants Humans to win the war against Chaos. Not Automata.

I also get a bit of a dark feel from the Stormcast, or at least it can be argued into my own fluff. They feel almost too good, oppressive, controlling, heartless. I can imagine a lot of the mortal races, though they appreciate the fight against Chaos, aren't necessarily big fans of them.

I hate to off topic my own thread but are empire/brets still a thing? If so do they still sigmar to war?

OgreChubbs wrote:
I hate to off topic my own thread but are empire/brets still a thing? If so do they still sigmar to war?

We don't know, but it seems unlikely to me at this point as I was under the impression most everything not hiding behind Sigmar's walls would be destroyed by chaos. There is a throwaway reference to ancient cultures still being alive behind those walls, and we have seen the Empire fanatics alongside sigmarines, but they weren't there as Empire troops. I find it hard to believe the empire has endured in any meaningful way, though the models will be repurposed I'm sure. I think one of the original rumors was that bretts would be folded into the empire and just be Empire knights, so take from what what you will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rihgu wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
So I considered starting a new thread to ask this, but I can tie it into this topic so I'll ask here.

Why did Sigmar bother giving his sigmarines personalities/emotions/free will to begin with?

My understanding is that rather than dying they loose little bits of themselves, so while they don't do it is supposed to be a fate worse than death. But an argument can be made unthinking line soldiers are a lot better. Removing emotion means no one flees, no one loots the cities you're trying to save, no one kills out of anger. Removing or limiting free will would be a sure way to stop them falling to chaos as well.

So why does he allow that? I find it hard to believe it was out of respect for the souls of the great heroes that he turned into Sigmarines, given that as far as I am aware he never asked them if they wanted to be sigmarines, he basically just forced them into servitude anyway.

Because ideally, the soldiers would never die & would keep all memories/parts of themselves, so at the end of the war they can return to normal lives.

Obviously, that's not going to happen, but the idea is to keep them as human as possible for as long as he can, lest he become just another Chaos God himself with the Stormcast being his daemons (shards of himself, no true will or thoughts of their own. Just extensions of him).

Basically, Sigmar wants Humans to win the war against Chaos. Not Automata.

There is some good points there, but how could these people ever return to a normal life?

I'm also curious just how authoritarian they are, if they have free will that means they can disobey orders, and if they do what is the punishment for that?

 Bottle wrote:
Maybe not a chaos group, but a rogue group who turn their backs of Sigmar would be fun. The interesting twist is they wouldn't be immortal either.

I don't think that'd be so much a twist as a certainty.

Unless Sigmar sees otherwise I doubt he'd reforge rebel Stormcasts.

Meowstalker wrote:
A wild guess is, Balthazar Gelt with a group of Stormcast.

Since he is master alchemist, incarnate of metal and a necromancer who believe in fighting fire(endless horde of daemon) with fire(resurrect-able undead/immortal). He suited the role of the designer of Stormcast better then barbarian king or dwarven god of blacksmith, and most incarnate survived.

Um... just a wild guess, you don't have to agree with me, but if you find any "hole" in this theory, please lemme know.

That would be interesting but the plot hole is that Gelt was killed by Mannfred before the world's ending. So the wind of metal probably left him before he could join the other incarnates.

Doesn't mean he might not return in some other fashion, though. He is a shout out to Dr.Doom afterall and no one's harder to keep dead than him.

 jonolikespie wrote:
So I considered starting a new thread to ask this, but I can tie it into this topic so I'll ask here.

Why did Sigmar bother giving his sigmarines personalities/emotions/free will to begin with?

My understanding is that rather than dying they loose little bits of themselves, so while they don't do it is supposed to be a fate worse than death. But an argument can be made unthinking line soldiers are a lot better. Removing emotion means no one flees, no one loots the cities you're trying to save, no one kills out of anger. Removing or limiting free will would be a sure way to stop them falling to chaos as well.

So why does he allow that? I find it hard to believe it was out of respect for the souls of the great heroes that he turned into Sigmarines, given that as far as I am aware he never asked them if they wanted to be sigmarines, he basically just forced them into servitude anyway.

Interesting question! The main reason though would be that Sigmar doesn't control their emotions. He finds warriors filled with the urge for righteous vengeance and gives them new bodies along with a fragment of his power.

Nagash is the one taking their emotions and humanity in retaliation for not receiving their souls who rightfully belong to him. A Stormcast devoid of his humanity will most likely end up as a undead puppet.

It's interesting that the tropes wiki lists Sigmar as "not so different" from Nagash. Sigmar is arrogant, prideful, powerful and named his nation after himself. Ditto for Nagash.

There's certainly a two sides of the same coin theme going on here.


As for Empire and Bretonnia, Jono got that mostly right. Multiple human kingdoms and empires fled to Sigmar's realm before he was forced to close it off. (The humans also built the wall structure that blocks entrance into his realm and Tyrion and Malerion combined their powers to ward off even the efforts of Tzeentch to peer into the realm.)

It's also been stated that the chaos infighting has allowed the mortal races to survive amongst the besieged realms. So we may see the new kingdoms try to make a comeback once the Stormcast have made enough gains against chaos.

I think (regarding Jono's point about why bother with humans at all instead of mortal automatons) is that Stormcast are chosen because of who they are/were.
After all, they are 'selected' at the point of death - meaning that these individuals were prepared to fight and die for 'heroic' principles.
Think Captain America - Sigmar can make these individuals stronger/faster/tougher, but he can't control who they are. If anything, I'd suggest the loss of humanity is a flaw of the reforging process, rather than an intent.