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I would appreciate if 40K would only have one central source of evil, that will make the theme consistent....

keithktam wrote:
I would appreciate if 40K would only have one central source of evil, that will make the theme consistent....

Stories with one main source of evil are usually really cliche because in reality there are many evils of varying magnitude.

keithktam wrote:
I would appreciate if 40K would only have one central source of evil, that will make the theme consistent....

If you want a classic "Big Bad," then Chaos still fits that bill the best. But there are too many factions in 40k (none of them really "good") for all the evil to come from the same source.

Connections do exist though, such as the Eldar giving birth to Slaanesh, and now with the Dark Eldar caught in the cycle they started, without having a choice anymore because of Slaanesh.

keithktam wrote:
I would appreciate if 40K would only have one central source of evil, that will make the theme consistent....

Everyone in 40k is a source of evil. There are no "good guys" in the classic sense. The greatest of human heroes are still fundamentalist religious zealots supporting a totalitarian theocracy.

 Psienesis wrote:

keithktam wrote:
I would appreciate if 40K would only have one central source of evil, that will make the theme consistent....

Everyone in 40k is a source of evil. There are no "good guys" in the classic sense. The greatest of human heroes are still fundamentalist religious zealots supporting a totalitarian theocracy.

That's fundamentally untrue, 40k us full of "good guys", they just don't last long in the grim dark universe or get completely corrupted by the environment.

Is that medicae that gives up his free time to aid the lower hive people, free of charge, a bad guy?

Is that manufactorum worker that works an extra shift, so his friend can go to his daughters birthday as bad guy?

Is that eldar poet that laments the need for war, and wishes only to be a pacifist, a bad guy!

Is that ork....that...um...Doesn't want to hit a grot too hard for mucking about... A bad...um..ork?

Is that Chaos lord that just wants to spread joy and happiness to all through the comic delights of pop art evil!?

Jokes aside, there is plenty of good in 40k, but it's not bolter porn so we don't see it.

Is that medicae that gives up his free time to aid the lower hive people, free of charge, a bad guy?

Those lower Hive people are the same ones going to the Ecclesiarchal services every day, living by the Creed, purging the Mutant, the Xeno and the Psyker from their midst. Those things are defined as "people that look different from us and might be book-learned in things that don't sound AdMechy". Witch-burnings and public executions are a popular past-time in the Hives.

Is that manufactorum worker that works an extra shift, so his friend can go to his daughters birthday as bad guy?

The item that dude is making is likely going to be turned against another human world that dared to speak out against the Imperium. This is a dude putting in a double-shift to produce another hundred canisters of Zyklon-B.

Is that eldar poet that laments the need for war, and wishes only to be a pacifist, a bad guy!

This Eldar doesn't exist.

Is that Chaos lord that just wants to spread joy and happiness to all through the comic delights of pop art evil!?

Nor does this guy.

Formosa wrote:
Is that Chaos lord that just wants to spread joy and happiness to all through the comic delights of pop art evil!?

Yes. Yes, he absolutely is.

Psienesis wrote:

Is that eldar poet that laments the need for war, and wishes only to be a pacifist, a bad guy!

This Eldar doesn't exist.

He probably does exist, you know. Eldar poets are a thing. An obsessive, all-consuming thing that devotes its entire semi-immortal existence to producing poetry. But, just like Wilfred Owen, when that pacifistic poet gets called back to the front lines, he puts on his mesh and picks up his shurikat dutifully, because all the wishing and ideals in the world won't save your home from the huns... or the orks.

 Psienesis wrote:

Is that medicae that gives up his free time to aid the lower hive people, free of charge, a bad guy?

Those lower Hive people are the same ones going to the Ecclesiarchal services every day, living by the Creed, purging the Mutant, the Xeno and the Psyker from their midst. Those things are defined as "people that look different from us and might be book-learned in things that don't sound AdMechy". Witch-burnings and public executions are a popular past-time in the Hives.

Is that manufactorum worker that works an extra shift, so his friend can go to his daughters birthday as bad guy?

The item that dude is making is likely going to be turned against another human world that dared to speak out against the Imperium. This is a dude putting in a double-shift to produce another hundred canisters of Zyklon-B.

Is that eldar poet that laments the need for war, and wishes only to be a pacifist, a bad guy!

This Eldar doesn't exist.

Is that Chaos lord that just wants to spread joy and happiness to all through the comic delights of pop art evil!?

Nor does this guy.

The last one was clearly a joke lol, but no, a doctor who helps people who can't afford healtcare, is not a bad person, it's his choice to help the sick, what they do is their business, his oath means he must help if he can, the doctor that only does it for profit and will only operate if someone has the money...is evil.

The manufactorum worker could be making baby food....you took it straight to a negative place lol, its his job to work in a back breaking horrible job, but through all that, still is able to show some human decency and kindness..... That's a good guy right there.

That eldar does exist....that eldar is just you average Joe guardian.

The ctan are to chaos as chaos is to ctan.

For all matter there is anti matter for all life there is death. Chaos is a pressence and necron are the anti presence. Chaos needs life to exist ctan need to take life to exist. I.e. Chaos and the ctan are the same coin just two different sides.

Much like tyranids they do not have a purpose the simply exist because life exists and they need to feed. In order to feed they must eat in order to eat the must breed life. They are their own end they are both sides of the coin, for once they breed life and then take life. More is lost then gained so simply put tyranids will end themselves if they win or they lose. For they are un balanced.

awesome!!!

I think we're missing the main point of origins. The Chaos Gods came about due to inherent belief, emotions, and other things that were particularly strong in the universe to cause their creation. We saw this clearly in the birth of Slaanesh.

C'tan, on the other hand, are a bit unclear. The current story (iirc) is that they started as big swirling gas beings that ate stars. It wasn't until they were put in necrodermis that they began to be the C'tan. Arguably this was when they began to show personalities as well (or at least that they could express them).

Overall, Chaos gods = forces of life and will in excess (pleasure, power, etc.) and C'tan are just beings who consume souls like hungry hungry hippos.

And stars, for some reason. Apparently stars and souls have similar nutritional value, but souls (or, more-properly, "cast-off life energy") is more flavorful.

Which brings up an interesting, if off-topic, point. Why do the C'Tan not like the warp when it's practically made of soul energy? Unless I'm thinking of the warp wrong.

 Psienesis wrote:

Is that medicae that gives up his free time to aid the lower hive people, free of charge, a bad guy?

Those lower Hive people are the same ones going to the Ecclesiarchal services every day, living by the Creed, purging the Mutant, the Xeno and the Psyker from their midst. Those things are defined as "people that look different from us and might be book-learned in things that don't sound AdMechy". Witch-burnings and public executions are a popular past-time in the Hives.

Is that manufactorum worker that works an extra shift, so his friend can go to his daughters birthday as bad guy?

The item that dude is making is likely going to be turned against another human world that dared to speak out against the Imperium. This is a dude putting in a double-shift to produce another hundred canisters of Zyklon-B.

Is that eldar poet that laments the need for war, and wishes only to be a pacifist, a bad guy!

This Eldar doesn't exist.

Is that Chaos lord that just wants to spread joy and happiness to all through the comic delights of pop art evil!?

Nor does this guy.

You ever heard of Nurgle, mate?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OgreChubbs wrote:
The ctan are to chaos as chaos is to ctan.

For all matter there is anti matter for all life there is death. Chaos is a pressence and necron are the anti presence. Chaos needs life to exist ctan need to take life to exist. I.e. Chaos and the ctan are the same coin just two different sides.

Much like tyranids they do not have a purpose the simply exist because life exists and they need to feed. In order to feed they must eat in order to eat the must breed life. They are their own end they are both sides of the coin, for once they breed life and then take life. More is lost then gained so simply put tyranids will end themselves if they win or they lose. For they are un balanced.

C'tan exist regardless of whether or not mortals do. They feed on stars; they're a force of nature. All life in the galaxy could go extinct, but there would still be c'tan munching on a red giant somewhere.

You ever heard of Nurgle, mate?

The Lord of Pestilence, Plague and Disease, yes, of course I've heard of him. What's he got to do with the subject? He's a Ruinous Power, with plans to turn all of reality into a reeking pit of pus and bile.

That his personality is described as jocular and humorous does not make him the God of Laffs and Giggles.

Which brings up an interesting, if off-topic, point. Why do the C'Tan not like the warp when it's practically made of soul energy? Unless I'm thinking of the warp wrong.

Because there's no direct link between the C'Tan and "soul energy". It is said they fed off the "cast-off life energy" during the Necrontyr Bio-transference... but what this energy is is nowhere described. Is it souls? The Necrontyr had no psykers, none at all, so probably not, and any souls they did have would be faint, microscopic wisps of energy, in the same way Tau souls are described. Barely an hors d'oeuvre to the Star-Gods.

 Psienesis wrote:

You ever heard of Nurgle, mate?

The Lord of Pestilence, Plague and Disease, yes, of course I've heard of him. What's he got to do with the subject? He's a Ruinous Power, with plans to turn all of reality into a reeking pit of pus and bile.

That his personality is described as jocular and humorous does not make him the God of Laffs and Giggles.

Which brings up an interesting, if off-topic, point. Why do the C'Tan not like the warp when it's practically made of soul energy? Unless I'm thinking of the warp wrong.

Because there's no direct link between the C'Tan and "soul energy". It is said they fed off the "cast-off life energy" during the Necrontyr Bio-transference... but what this energy is is nowhere described. Is it souls? The Necrontyr had no psykers, none at all, so probably not, and any souls they did have would be faint, microscopic wisps of energy, in the same way Tau souls are described. Barely an hors d'oeuvre to the Star-Gods.

Nurgle is also the god of joy and paternal love. He just wants to enlarge his family; let him in and feel the love of Nurgle wash over your soul.

No, he is not the God of joy and paternal love. You are mistaking his personality for his divine portfolio.

 Psienesis wrote:
No, he is not the God of joy and paternal love. You are mistaking his personality for his divine portfolio.

Oh? So what God embodies love then? Or joy?

 dusara217 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
No, he is not the God of joy and paternal love. You are mistaking his personality for his divine portfolio.

Oh? So what God embodies love then? Or joy?

Cegorach embodies Joy. The Emperor embodies Love.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
No, he is not the God of joy and paternal love. You are mistaking his personality for his divine portfolio.

Oh? So what God embodies love then? Or joy?

Given that both emotions are in incredibly short supply in M41, I would imagine that there is no coalesced Warp Being encompassing these emotions on a level with the Great Four or other major players of the Immaterium.