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Skitarii are pretty obviously _designed around_ not having transports. If you want to give them transports, get rid of their Scout moves and Dunestrider and Assault 3 plasma.

Obviously they perform better with transports, that's not a reason to give them some. It's supposed to be a weak point.

 oldzoggy wrote:

This is a valid point, but in contrary to popular believe does gw have years of relevant data about this in the form of sales numbers that we as customers don't have. And i'm 100% certain that they like all mayor companies are using their data about their (unpopular) actions on sales to the fullest. So while I have become "not a customer" when new kits are oddly high priced others might still be buying them making the expensive plastic HQ's and Centurions worth it. Sure they could make mistakes, but no way that we could predict this effect better then GW themselves.

So, 10 people bought X product at $8. Next year, GW raises the price to $10, and only 8 people purchased this product. Hey, look, we made the same amount of money! It's working as intended, right? You do see where this is heading? Let's pretend that somehow you don't eventually run out of customers, there's also a significant effect of less people playing your game, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, less people acting as an advocate for your game in the community and attracting new players (and customers).

Numbers don't lie, but they rarely tell the entire story, either.

 the_Armyman wrote:
[

So, 10 people bought X product at $8. Next year, GW raises the price to $10, and only 8 people purchased this product. Hey, look, we made the same amount of money! It's working as intended, right?
.

Making the same amount of money as last year is never the goal of a modern day company but lets not go into that.

The main thing about GW and comparable companies like Hasbro / Magic is that they don't work like most companies do. Their products are not sold in a steady stream like lets say bread or kitchen sinks but are mainly release driven.
Each successful release generates a spike of sales of certain products many times above the average level of sales for those products.
Because of this these kind of companies have to overcome the following challenges:
1) They have to find ways to hype every release -> Carefully planed "rumors" and "leaks" combined with the current infrastructure of blogs work great. True and poorly timed leaks are bad and almost all stamped out.
2) Their release and the following spikes of sales have to be planned in great precision in order to create the desired monthly figures instead of a undesirable pattern of spikes and drops in sales.
3) The spikes of this year have roughly around the same time and slightly higher then the spike of next year. Thing like " The results of this years first few months are lagging behind compared to last year due to ... " should never happen, or at least not be planned to happen.
This is why it is great to make toys for a movie that has a sequel each year and why it is hard to do a big release wave of for a not that popular army when last year was great.

The choice of releasing one or two books on a big release does have huge effects on this all and should primarily be taken on what some gamers ( who will buy into your hypes anyways) think of it all.

I'll just put it simply: if GW had released a combined AdMech codex for $50, I would have bought one. They produced two half-codexes for $33, so I bought neither. My uneducated guess is that I couldn't have been the only one who made this decision.

Exactly. I like large portions of both sides, but am unwilling to buy two books to facilitate the use of two half-ranges as a single full one.

What next with that logic? Codex: Eldar Guardians and Codex: Eldar Aspect Warriors? True fans would buy both to field a proper Eldar army!

All rules should have been free like Age of Sigmar with a single source book like the Forge World one.

That's the reason why I have only bought one box of Skitarii and have bought loads of Fantasy models in comparison.

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'll just put it simply: if GW had released a combined AdMech codex for $50, I would have bought one. They produced two half-codexes for $33, so I bought neither. My uneducated guess is that I couldn't have been the only one who made this decision.

I felt the same way at the start, but, after having played them both?

It's like saying Guard and Marines should be a single book.

Alcibiades wrote:
Skitarii are pretty obviously _designed around_ not having transports. If you want to give them transports, get rid of their Scout moves and Dunestrider and Assault 3 plasma.

Obviously they perform better with transports, that's not a reason to give them some. It's supposed to be a weak point.

That may be true from a purely rule perspective but from the fictional side they use transports... It's a clear departure from the fiction that the faction that produces all the vehicles for the imperium and saves the best for themselves don't have anything. From a game balance and fluff perspective what makes sense is that they should have transport in the vein of Land Raiders where the high performance and transport capacity are offset by a high cost that's almost prohibitively expensive to field.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'll just put it simply: if GW had released a combined AdMech codex for $50, I would have bought one. They produced two half-codexes for $33, so I bought neither. My uneducated guess is that I couldn't have been the only one who made this decision.

I felt the same way at the start, but, after having played them both?

It's like saying Guard and Marines should be a single book.

How about this idea: one hypothetical codex contains the rules for "both" armies. The Force Org only requires 2 units of Skitarii as Troops with an HQ as optional but, if you take a Dominus as your HQ, Kataphrons become Troops and Skitarii become ElItes. A Dominus allows you to use Blessings of the Omnissiah, while taking Skitarii as Troops allows you to use Doctrina Imperatives. In the back of this hypothetical codex is a huge formation called the Battle Congregation that allows you to use both.

BTW, it's strange that players tend to gravitate towards the Battle Congregation, isn't it? It's almost like they were designed to work together as a complete army.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'll just put it simply: if GW had released a combined AdMech codex for $50, I would have bought one. They produced two half-codexes for $33, so I bought neither. My uneducated guess is that I couldn't have been the only one who made this decision.

I felt the same way at the start, but, after having played them both?

It's like saying Guard and Marines should be a single book.

How about this idea: one hypothetical codex contains the rules for "both" armies. The Force Org only requires 2 units of Skitarii as Troops with an HQ as optional but, if you take a Dominus as your HQ, Kataphrons become Troops and Skitarii become ElItes. A Dominus allows you to use Blessings of the Omnissiah, while taking Skitarii as Troops allows you to use Doctrina Imperatives. In the back of this hypothetical codex is a huge formation called the Battle Congregation that allows you to use both.

BTW, it's strange that players tend to gravitate towards the Battle Congregation, isn't it? It's almost like they were designed to work together as a complete army.

You're using the wrong term. You're thinking of the "Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation"(the one with the Knight) or the "Cohort Mechanicus"(which I have literally never seen anyone use, as the requirements are ridiculous).
The "Battle Congregation" is the Cult Mechanicus CAD.

As to why people use the War Convocation? It lets you get a HUGE bonus in the form of "Canticles of the Omnissiah" on every unit in there, giving the Knight a huge boost to its defense via the "Shroudpsalm" and its offensive capability via "Benediction of Omniscience".
Additionally it gets used because the "tax" is basically just the Skitarii Battle Maniple. You then get free upgrades, Gets Hot removed, and free Relics to those who can take them.

It's a great little thing for someone who wants to play a combined army without going overboard on points, but it's also highly restrictive(the only things you can do without being told what to take is the Cult Mechanicus portion, which requires a Battle Congregation) and dictates a good portion of the list.

The FW Ad Mech codex and models make GW's attempt look pathetic. The FW book gives you 3 armies to play, along with making units (gasp!) have synergy with each other. Units can buff each other, use one anothers LOS, or face penalties for being too spread out. The models are gorgeous, and everything you would expect for grimdark robots from Mars 30k years in the future. GW Ad Mech models are kind of meh. You get chicken walkers, mini tanks with human torsos slapped on that look like a toddler's toy, robots that look like rejects from a budget remake of the animated "cars" movie and no named HQs. It's sad what GW did with the army, FW mechanicum is some of the best stuff they make.

 Kanluwen wrote:

You're using the wrong term. You're thinking of the "Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation"(the one with the Knight) or the "Cohort Mechanicus"(which I have literally never seen anyone use, as the requirements are ridiculous).
The "Battle Congregation" is the Cult Mechanicus CAD.

Forgive a turkey-addled mind when it forgets the difference between a cohort, convocation, or congregation, but you knew what I meant!

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You're using the wrong term. You're thinking of the "Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation"(the one with the Knight) or the "Cohort Mechanicus"(which I have literally never seen anyone use, as the requirements are ridiculous).
The "Battle Congregation" is the Cult Mechanicus CAD.

Forgive a turkey-addled mind when it forgets the difference between a cohort, convocation, or congregation, but you knew what I meant!

I certainly did, but I also feel like saying "People use the War Convocation because the Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii should have been one Codex" is overlooking the fact that you get a Knight in there along with free upgrades, no Gets Hot, and Canticles affecting everything in the Formation. Additionally? The Formation itself isn't too bad, giving you some leeway.

The Cohort Mechanicus is purely Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii and it's widely regarded as crap despite it giving you both Canticles AND Doctrina Imperatives, along with a unique Canticle and Doctrina Imperative.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You're using the wrong term. You're thinking of the "Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation"(the one with the Knight) or the "Cohort Mechanicus"(which I have literally never seen anyone use, as the requirements are ridiculous).
The "Battle Congregation" is the Cult Mechanicus CAD.

Forgive a turkey-addled mind when it forgets the difference between a cohort, convocation, or congregation, but you knew what I meant!

I certainly did, but I also feel like saying "People use the War Convocation because the Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii should have been one Codex" is overlooking the fact that you get a Knight in there along with free upgrades, no Gets Hot, and Canticles affecting everything in the Formation. Additionally? The Formation itself isn't too bad, giving you some leeway.

The Cohort Mechanicus is purely Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii and it's widely regarded as crap despite it giving you both Canticles AND Doctrina Imperatives, along with a unique Canticle and Doctrina Imperative.

The unit combo itself is crap, not the special rules.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You're using the wrong term. You're thinking of the "Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation"(the one with the Knight) or the "Cohort Mechanicus"(which I have literally never seen anyone use, as the requirements are ridiculous).
The "Battle Congregation" is the Cult Mechanicus CAD.

Forgive a turkey-addled mind when it forgets the difference between a cohort, convocation, or congregation, but you knew what I meant!

I certainly did, but I also feel like saying "People use the War Convocation because the Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii should have been one Codex" is overlooking the fact that you get a Knight in there along with free upgrades, no Gets Hot, and Canticles affecting everything in the Formation. Additionally? The Formation itself isn't too bad, giving you some leeway.

The Cohort Mechanicus is purely Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii and it's widely regarded as crap despite it giving you both Canticles AND Doctrina Imperatives, along with a unique Canticle and Doctrina Imperative.

The unit combo itself is crap, not the special rules.

Thanks for reiterating my point?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You're using the wrong term. You're thinking of the "Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation"(the one with the Knight) or the "Cohort Mechanicus"(which I have literally never seen anyone use, as the requirements are ridiculous).
The "Battle Congregation" is the Cult Mechanicus CAD.

Forgive a turkey-addled mind when it forgets the difference between a cohort, convocation, or congregation, but you knew what I meant!

I certainly did, but I also feel like saying "People use the War Convocation because the Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii should have been one Codex" is overlooking the fact that you get a Knight in there along with free upgrades, no Gets Hot, and Canticles affecting everything in the Formation. Additionally? The Formation itself isn't too bad, giving you some leeway.

The Cohort Mechanicus is purely Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii and it's widely regarded as crap despite it giving you both Canticles AND Doctrina Imperatives, along with a unique Canticle and Doctrina Imperative.

The unit combo itself is crap, not the special rules.

Thanks for reiterating my point?

Apologies, I thought you were saying that the special rules made it viable. Misinterpretation, on my part.