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 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
In the "can't go anywhere" bit. You don't need a destination to engage your hyperdrive. The sensor systems tell you where all celestial bodies are within a given number of LY. You tell your astromech droid, or your nav-comp, to calculate the jump to the limit of your sensors, and you jump. Rinse, repeat.

It's not fast, but SW sensor technology is superior to that of 40K, by an extremely large margin. In so doing, you will eventually arrive at a populated system or be able to get a pretty good "map" of the sector, not to mention identify Forge and Hive Worlds by the background "noise" of their industrial centers, radio communications, and so forth.

That is not true. Star Wars hyperdrives need nav computers to function (pilots are not able to make the complicated calculation on their own) and nav computers need the proper star charts to function. Sensors do not work in hyperspace, and even if they did, the speed would be too fast. The moment they'd detect an object you'd already be right in the middle of it.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace#Navigation

Technically, you could just insert random coordinates into your nav computer, but doing so would be extremely dangerous and stupid. Even if you'd survive, you would likely just end up in empty space.

Han Solo and Chewbacca both program their nav-comps manually. Astromech droids make it simpler, but it is possible to do the math yourself (insanely risky, however).

You don't use the sensors while in transit. You scan the area, find a blank spot, jump to it, drop out, scan again, rinse, repeat.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
In the "can't go anywhere" bit. You don't need a destination to engage your hyperdrive. The sensor systems tell you where all celestial bodies are within a given number of LY. You tell your astromech droid, or your nav-comp, to calculate the jump to the limit of your sensors, and you jump. Rinse, repeat.

It's not fast, but SW sensor technology is superior to that of 40K, by an extremely large margin. In so doing, you will eventually arrive at a populated system or be able to get a pretty good "map" of the sector, not to mention identify Forge and Hive Worlds by the background "noise" of their industrial centers, radio communications, and so forth.

That is not true. Star Wars hyperdrives need nav computers to function (pilots are not able to make the complicated calculation on their own) and nav computers need the proper star charts to function. Sensors do not work in hyperspace, and even if they did, the speed would be too fast. The moment they'd detect an object you'd already be right in the middle of it.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace#Navigation

Technically, you could just insert random coordinates into your nav computer, but doing so would be extremely dangerous and stupid. Even if you'd survive, you would likely just end up in empty space.

Han Solo and Chewbacca both program their nav-comps manually. Astromech droids make it simpler, but it is possible to do the math yourself (insanely risky, however).

You don't use the sensors while in transit. You scan the area, find a blank spot, jump to it, drop out, scan again, rinse, repeat.

The nav computer still does the calculating for Han and Chewie, though. Some can fly without nav computer, but they do use it.
And that is not how sensors work in Star Wars. You can't just scan places that are many lightyears away and then jump there (the Millennium Falcon's sensors only had a range of half a million kilometres, a light year is about 9 trillion kilometres). The only way to get to an uncharted place is to send out probes to chart those places and any hazards along the way. This is why exploration in Star Wars is so slow and half of the galaxy hasn't even been discovered yet.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
In the "can't go anywhere" bit. You don't need a destination to engage your hyperdrive. The sensor systems tell you where all celestial bodies are within a given number of LY. You tell your astromech droid, or your nav-comp, to calculate the jump to the limit of your sensors, and you jump. Rinse, repeat.

It's not fast, but SW sensor technology is superior to that of 40K, by an extremely large margin. In so doing, you will eventually arrive at a populated system or be able to get a pretty good "map" of the sector, not to mention identify Forge and Hive Worlds by the background "noise" of their industrial centers, radio communications, and so forth.

That is not true. Star Wars hyperdrives need nav computers to function (pilots are not able to make the complicated calculation on their own) and nav computers need the proper star charts to function. Sensors do not work in hyperspace, and even if they did, the speed would be too fast. The moment they'd detect an object you'd already be right in the middle of it.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace#Navigation

Technically, you could just insert random coordinates into your nav computer, but doing so would be extremely dangerous and stupid. Even if you'd survive, you would likely just end up in empty space.

Han Solo and Chewbacca both program their nav-comps manually. Astromech droids make it simpler, but it is possible to do the math yourself (insanely risky, however).

You don't use the sensors while in transit. You scan the area, find a blank spot, jump to it, drop out, scan again, rinse, repeat.

The nav computer still does the calculating for Han and Chewie, though. Some can fly without nav computer, but they do use it.
And that is not how sensors work in Star Wars. You can't just scan places that are many lightyears away and then jump there (the Millennium Falcon's sensors only had a range of half a million kilometres, a light year is about 9 trillion kilometres). The only way to get to an uncharted place is to send out probes to chart those places and any hazards along the way. This is why exploration in Star Wars is so slow and half of the galaxy hasn't even been discovered yet.

The Falcon is a light frigate, and one of the smallest examples of that class of ship in the setting. A SSD, as well as many other classes of ships has much greater sensor range but what you're talking about is a ship's ability to detect things more or less its own size, not mass-shadows like planets and stars (which you can see from millions of LY away. Go outside at night and look at the sky, there you go.). For the purposes of this exercise, that's all you're worried about. "If I make this jump, will I hit the mass-shadow of a planet, star, or other massive object? No? Hit it." Smaller objects (like other ships) don't normally have the mass to create a shadow in hyperspace worth worrying about (Interdictors being the obvious exception).

Half the galaxy is not unexplored in SW. There's a dwarf galaxy that is currently merging with the main SW galaxy (the Rishi Drift, descending from above the galactic plane, and canted almost perpendicular to it) which is largely unexplored, but the only part of the main galaxy that is virtually unexplored is the aptly-named Unknown Region on the western edge of the galaxy. The Core, Hutt Space, the Seat of the Empire, the Mid-Rim and the Outer Rim are all *quite* mapped and settled, excepting the Outer Rim which, while settled, is some of the most-recently discovered regions in space (despite there being worlds there with civilizations thousands of years old).

But, for purposes of this exercise, using one or the other's settings means the invading group loses. The Imperium in the SW galaxy? There's no Warp. There's no Astronomican. They cannot Navigate, because their Navigators are blind. Their psykers are useless because there's no Warp. They sit in deep space, having only standard, sub-luminal drives, and eventually starve.

 Psienesis wrote:
In the "can't go anywhere" bit. You don't need a destination to engage your hyperdrive. The sensor systems tell you where all celestial bodies are within a given number of LY. You tell your astromech droid, or your nav-comp, to calculate the jump to the limit of your sensors, and you jump. Rinse, repeat.

It's not fast, but SW sensor technology is superior to that of 40K, by an extremely large margin. In so doing, you will eventually arrive at a populated system or be able to get a pretty good "map" of the sector, not to mention identify Forge and Hive Worlds by the background "noise" of their industrial centers, radio communications, and so forth.

If the Empires spies manage to steal a good set of navigational data then they're back to normal operation.

The Imperium isn't going to be setting up another astronomicon...

 Matthew wrote:
Round 1: 1 Space Marine vs 1 Storm Trooper (Star Wars)

Round 2: 10 Space Marines vs 100 Storm Troopers

Round 3: 1 Space Marine Terminator vs 10 Emperor's Guard

Round 4: 1 Space Marine Chapter including vehicles vs Stormtrooper Regiment (2500 Stormtroopers plus vehicles)

Round 5: All resources from the Imperium (1 million Space Marines, billions of Guardsmen, and so on) vs all soldiers and military units portrayed in the Star Wars movies (Stormtroopers, Clones, Rebels, and so on)

Location: The Hoth system.

GO!

I'm going to be really picky here, because I love me some Star Wars:

Round 1: What generation are we talking? BBY or ABY? Are they a clone trooper or the rank and file conscripts? Clone trooper is the only fair match, both Clones and Astartes are bred for war, and are genetically superior to the average rank and file. A Stormtrooper is more akin to a guardsmen. (For instance, Captain Rex and Commander Cody in Clone Wars are F'ing awesome)

Round 2: This depends on what Round 1 is based on, 100 Astartes V 100 Clones, that's a good match right there. Otherwise you might aswell just pitch 10 Astartes to 100 IG (see above)

Round 3: Do you know what the Emperor's Guard are? I'm guessing not, because a single one can easily handle a single terminator. These are the Elite of the Elite, trained in all arts of warfare including Saber techniques, blasters, etc. They can stand up against Sith Lords and Jedi Masters fyi.

Round 4: I'm going to keep saying this, Stormtroopers are the IG of the SW universe, so yeah...

Round 5: Entire of Imperium Vs All known forces of the SW "Lucas" canon? 2 Death Stars + Non-idiot-FTL travel + Palpatine + Samuel L Jackson = SW Win. Now, you open this up to all EU canon, and SW won't even break a sweat

Nah, in False Emperor, the Emperor's Guard are carved through like butter. They're good against mooks, even really good mooks, but they've nothing against a Space Marine.

 Psienesis wrote:
Nah, in False Emperor, the Emperor's Guard are carved through like butter. They're good against mooks, even really good mooks, but they've nothing against a Space Marine.

You mean the Flashpoint in SW:TOR? Because if so mobs in a dungeon don't really count (I mean c'mon, Malgus and Revan being brought down by 5 people? Silliness).

In the lore, the Emperor's Guard are badasses, even Dark Council members are scared of them and they handily beat Dark Council members a few times with little effort.

Oh, and if we can use the EU (since 40K lore vs the sliver of SW lore in the films alone is unfair), Emperor Vitiate alone would destroy planets without an army, and not forgetting the Planet sized force storm Palpatine can conjure. Or the absolute martial prowess of Tulak Hord, or Exar Kun, or Mace Windu, who would put 99% of the 40K universe to shame. And as far as psykers go, Force users aren't prone to getting their minds destroyed by the warp for using their powers.

Although, SW characters V their 40K analogues would be far more interesting

Rogal Dorn V Obi Wan Kenobi, the two most defensive combatants in either canon slogging it out

Angron V Darth Malgus, RAEG v Rage

I could keep going forever

A more fair fight would be something like Eisenhorn VS Obi-Wan.

I am also pretty sure clone troopers are really not Space Marines...

Oh please, this again? WH40K wins hands down if it's a fight mano-a-mano (or a ground battle). Star Wars, even without preset navmaps, has so much faster FTL drive that space battles are decided before the IoM even knows they're in a space battle.

 Ashiraya wrote:
A more fair fight would be something like Eisenhorn VS Obi-Wan.

I am also pretty sure clone troopers are really not Space Marines...

I did think of Eisenhorn tbf.

Clone Troopers were cloned from the best stock available in the Galaxy, Jango Fett was a Mandolorian after all (And if there's one race of people possibly better at warfare then Space Marines, it's Mandolorians). They were artificially aged, the training was intense and started from when they were children, and they were good enough to take down Jedi Masters when Order 66 came about and during the Jedi Purge after.

And their equipment was the best available in the Republic at the time (unlike Stormtroopers, their armour could stop a blaster bolt ).

See the parallels?

Izural wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
A more fair fight would be something like Eisenhorn VS Obi-Wan.

I am also pretty sure clone troopers are really not Space Marines...

I did think of Eisenhorn tbf.

Clone Troopers were cloned from the best stock available in the Galaxy, Jango Fett was a Mandolorian after all (And if there's one race of people possibly better at warfare then Space Marines, it's Mandolorians). They were artificially aged, the training was intense and started from when they were children, and they were good enough to take down Jedi Masters when Order 66 came about and during the Jedi Purge after.

And their equipment was the best available in the Republic at the time (unlike Stormtroopers, their armour could stop a blaster bolt ).

See the parallels?

Mandolorians, for all their prowess, are still humans. Astartes have training that is at least as tough, likely more so, and bioengineering on top of that. And stormtroopers are just the clone legions with a different aesthetic. Order 66 due to the clones having a great numerical advantage over their generals, and the benefit of a surprise attack.

Yeah... clones are maybe equal to Tempestus... maybe. But not Astartes.

Stormtroopers are not clones; the cloning facility on Kamino, along with the gene banks, were destroyed by the rebels not long after Palpatine took power. Also, the Emperor disbanded the clone troopers in favour of conscripting the Imperial populace.

Bioengineering aside, I think both Mandolorians and Astartes are evenly matched (The mandolorians don't bioengineer, but love them some cyber augments). The tipping point would be that Mandolorians also have access to one of the rarest things in the Star Wars universe; Mandolorian Iron, which is to Terminator armour as Terminator armour is to Ork T-shirts.

But hey, I see Mandolorians and Astartes getting along very well; Mandolorian Astartes, the most OP force ever made!

I don't see anything indicating that mandalorians would be able to play on the Astartes' level.

Completely different universes and settings, along with degrees of power and technology levels. 40k setting is just way too advanced compared to SW's

E.g - SW's Death Star was the defining terror weapon and was regarded as the epitome of technology... and there was one in the Galaxy. Any Astartes Battle Barge can do exactly the same thing, but may take just a tad longer. On the other hand a Blackstone Fortress can wipe out entire systems.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Completely different universes and settings, along with degrees of power and technology levels. 40k setting is just way too advanced compared to SW's

E.g - SW's Death Star was the defining terror weapon and was regarded as the epitome of technology... and there was one in the Galaxy. Any Astartes Battle Barge can do exactly the same thing, but may take just a tad longer. On the other hand a Blackstone Fortress can wipe out entire systems.

Agreed. I think 40k weapons would wipe the floor with SW, especially when the Virus Bombs come out to play

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
On the other hand a Blackstone Fortress can wipe out entire systems.

so could the sun crusher.

 carldooley wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
On the other hand a Blackstone Fortress can wipe out entire systems.

so could the sun crusher.

I am assuming we're only considering the canon stuff (I think that's not canon anymore?)

And even so, there's one Sun Crusher and at least 6 Blackstone Fortresses.

we are getting sidetracked. system destroying weapons likely wouldn't be used in the OP's initial encounter, unless you want both fleets to die as they arrive.

**edit**well if you used the Sun Crusher's torpedoes to make the system's star go nova. how do blackstone fortresses destroy systems?

Izural wrote:
Stormtroopers are not clones; the cloning facility on Kamino, along with the gene banks, were destroyed by the rebels not long after Palpatine took power. Also, the Emperor disbanded the clone troopers in favour of conscripting the Imperial populace.

Bioengineering aside, I think both Mandolorians and Astartes are evenly matched (The mandolorians don't bioengineer, but love them some cyber augments). The tipping point would be that Mandolorians also have access to one of the rarest things in the Star Wars universe; Mandolorian Iron, which is to Terminator armour as Terminator armour is to Ork T-shirts.

But hey, I see Mandolorians and Astartes getting along very well; Mandolorian Astartes, the most OP force ever made!

Didn't know that about the clones, I'll keep it in mind. I deliberately avoided making a Beskar'Gam/ceramite comparison, because that would literally be comparing plot armor. Both are fictional materials that are the best protection available in their respective settings. However, it should be noted that Mandolorian armor doesn't have the strength-boosting abilities of power armor, nor is it linked directly to the nervous system. Additionally, as OP specified the Galactic Empire, beskar is in short supply this era. The Imperials strip-mined Mandalor, discovered they didn't know how to smith it, and didn't give it back. No new veins would be discovered until the Yuzhang Vong bombardment 30 years later.

Izural wrote:
Round 3: Do you know what the Emperor's Guard are? I'm guessing not, because a single one can easily handle a single terminator. These are the Elite of the Elite, trained in all arts of warfare including Saber techniques, blasters, etc. They can stand up against Sith Lords and Jedi Masters fyi.

Does anyone have a value for rounds per minute fired from a storm bolter? Let's see and Emperor's Guard dodge/parry THAT

I think a battle between say Darth Vader and maybe Horus would be awesome. Or Emprah vs Emperor.

 Matthew wrote:
I think a battle between say Darth Vader and maybe Horus would be awesome. Or Emprah vs Emperor.

Poor, poor Sith, especially Palpatine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

13045273 wrote:

Izural wrote:
Round 3: Do you know what the Emperor's Guard are? I'm guessing not, because a single one can easily handle a single terminator. These are the Elite of the Elite, trained in all arts of warfare including Saber techniques, blasters, etc. They can stand up against Sith Lords and Jedi Masters fyi.

Does anyone have a value for rounds per minute fired from a storm bolter? Let's see and Emperor's Guard dodge/parry THAT

Apparently Kantor's Storm Bolter can pump out 300 rounds per minute, but that qualifies as an astounding weapon. So, let's say 200 rounds per minute?

Hold on, how could an Emperor's Guard even handle a Marine?

 Saber wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Clone/Storm Troopers can't even hit a target at 10 meters... The only reason they won the Clone Wars is because the battle droids were even worse at fighting
No wonder the Empire was defeated by a bunch of rebels led by a farmer with a lightsaber.

Hey now, in the American Revolution the British Empire was beaten by a bunch of rebels led by a farmer with false teeth.

Don't underestimate a properly-equipped farmer.

That really really was not how it worked - given how much men, ships, money and equipment the French poured into that war. Most revolutions simply don't work without outside assistance.

Round 1: 1 Space Marine vs 1 Storm Trooper (Star Wars)
Quick and easy - dead Storm Trooper, the Astartes are quicker, stronger, more accurate and more resilient with a more powerful weapon at range and much more deadly in h-t-h.

Round 2: 10 Space Marines vs 100 Storm Troopers
More interesting fight but I would think this should go to the Astartes

Round 3: 1 Space Marine Terminator vs 10 Emperor's Guard
Don't know enough about the Guards melee weapons to call this one.

Round 4: 1 Space Marine Chapter including vehicles vs Stormtrooper Regiment (2500 Stormtroopers plus vehicles)
Much like the first one - a Full Space marine Chapter has everything from its own warships to superheavies. Short and brutal fight.

Round 5: All resources from the Imperium (1 million Space Marines, billions of Guardsmen, and so on) vs all soldiers and military units portrayed in the Star Wars movies (Stormtroopers, Clones, Rebels, and so on)

Location: The Hoth system.

too much stuff in too small a space - they amount of mass likely turns it into a black hole A Crusade versus an Imperial Battlegroup would be a interesting battle/novel.

 carldooley wrote:
we are getting sidetracked. system destroying weapons likely wouldn't be used in the OP's initial encounter, unless you want both fleets to die as they arrive.

**edit**well if you used the Sun Crusher's torpedoes to make the system's star go nova. how do blackstone fortresses destroy systems?

It has a Warp Cannon that pretty much tears apart the veil that separates the Warp from Real Space and goes boom on all of it. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Blackstone_Fortress

Anyway I am just using these as examples to point out what the greatest achievements of each civilization is. Through those alone we can have a good idea of what civilization has the most advanced run of the mill "standardized" technology.

Anyway:

Round 1: 1 Space Marine vs 1 Storm Trooper (Star Wars)
The Stormtrooper doesn't stand a chance, really. He will only dent the Astartes' power armour... if he's lucky to get a shot out.

Round 2: 10 Space Marines vs 100 Storm Troopers
Same. If the Troopers concentrate fire, a couple of marines may be killed. This is assuming there are no Blaster Cannons/Heavy Bolters around, and no Terminators.

Round 3: 1 Space Marine Terminator vs 10 Emperor's Guard
Head to head the Terminator would win quite easily, courtesy of your trusty Stormbolter.

Round 4: 1 Space Marine Chapter including vehicles vs Stormtrooper Regiment (2500 Stormtroopers plus vehicles)
As with everything above, the Astartes will win through vastly superior firepower and technology.

Round 5: All resources from the Imperium (1 million Space Marines, billions of Guardsmen, and so on) vs all soldiers and military units portrayed in the Star Wars movies (Stormtroopers, Clones, Rebels, and so on)
The resources of Imperial Navy alone could dominate the Galactic Empire, with or without the Death Star. Adding the Astartes Navy would make it overkill.

 Matthew wrote:

Round 3: 1 Space Marine Terminator vs 10 Emperor's Guard

Everything else is woefully in the Space Marines' favour, but this one is sharply in the other direction.

The only depiction I've seen of the Emperor's Guard doing anything was in Dark Empire. And in that they are the Sue-est Mary Sues that ever Sued. Soloing a storm trooper contingent, blocking blasters with his staff, shooting a tie that's on a collision course right for him through the cockpit in such a way that it stops and careens over a hill on top of another contingent of storm troopers.

the ones in the red armor in the movie? everything that I've ever read suggested that they were force sensitives rescued by palpatine from the purges, with loyalty similar to Vader's. but as Lithlandis mentioned, the fluff for them is non-canon now.

strip the canon from SW, why not strip the cannon from SM?

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Matthew wrote:

Round 3: 1 Space Marine Terminator vs 10 Emperor's Guard

Everything else is woefully in the Space Marines' favour, but this one is sharply in the other direction.

The only depiction I've seen of the Emperor's Guard doing anything was in Dark Empire. And in that they are the Sue-est Mary Sues that ever Sued. Soloing a storm trooper contingent, blocking blasters with his staff, shooting a tie that's on a collision course right for him through the cockpit in such a way that it stops and careens over a hill on top of another contingent of storm troopers.

The problem is... how effectively can they deflect 3 bolter rounds per second with their staves?

Just a question, wouldn't just the Imperial Navy plus a few Chapter ships dominate the entire Empire? Since, well, the Empire has one thing capable of destroying planets/ships. The Imperium? Hundreds.