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Wyzilla wrote: You also don't seem to understand just how fast Space Marines move, because Astartes are speedsters themselves and can pluck supersonic munitions out of the air.
And yet when GW showed us what space marine combat looks like we don't see any of this speed. In fact, space marines seem to move slower than normal humans, with their heavy armor apparently giving them protection and raw strength at the expense of speed and agility.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
The toss up is the Emperor's Guard v the Terminator.
I assume equal martial prowess on a man-to-man basis and force-sensitivity by the EG, The EG are "handpicked from the very best of his forces. Out of millions of soldiers, they are unsurpassed." Sounds kind of like a Marine.
If the EG are Force-sensitives, they would win based on numbers and vibrostaff/force pike technology which is basically the same as a power weapon.
So I'd say the terminator is in pretty big trouble...you can only roll so many 2s.
FFS people. Force Pikes and vibro weapons are NOTHING like power weapons. Vibrostaffs can only cut through that which they can sonically excite, and force pikes literally won't do anything to power armor. They're a glorified taser stick.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Wyzilla wrote: You also don't seem to understand just how fast Space Marines move, because Astartes are speedsters themselves and can pluck supersonic munitions out of the air.
And yet when GW showed us what space marine combat looks like we don't see any of this speed. In fact, space marines seem to move slower than normal humans, with their heavy armor apparently giving them protection and raw strength at the expense of speed and agility.
Yes, and in those novels we quite clearly see them smacking aside supersonic munitions. Peregrine, why are you even still here? I remember you specifically stating you were done with 40k, yet you came back and still try to instill this hilarious "reasonable" 40k on a franchise that makes as much sense as Marvel. Give up trying to apply any sense or logic to 40k, it doesn't work.
Transhuman dread. Aximand had heard iterators talk of the condition. He’d heard descriptions of it from regular Army officers too. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing: taller and broader than a man could ever be, armoured like a demigod. The singularity of purpose was self-evident. An Adeptus Astartes was designed to fight and kill anything that didn’t annihilate it first. If you saw an Adeptus Astartes, you knew you were in trouble. The appearance alone cowed you with fear. But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing, but the moving fact of one was quite another. The psychologists called it transhuman dread. It froze a man, stuck him to the ground, caused his mind to lock up, made him lose control of bladder and bowel. Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal, and that you were about to die and, if you were really lucking, there might be just enough time to piss yourself first.
-Age Of Darkness Page 163
Combat reflexes took over and Rafen drew his bolt pistol in a fraction of a second, his other hand snatching at the hilt of the battle knife resting in a sheath along the line of his spine. He fired a single shot at the High Chaplain, aiming low, aiming to wound, to slow him down. But he might well have called out his intentions in a shout. Astorath swept his blade aside and intercepted the bolt mid-flight with a crack of sound, the round blasting harmlessly into the dirt. Rafen dodged to one side as the weapon’s fast, fluid arc bisected the space where he had been standing, and he rolled, tumbling over red dirt and half-buried rocks.
-Hammer and Bolter. Redeemed Page 231-232
As the shell seared past, Rangar threw himself flat behind the low pile of rubble trying to make himself as small a target as possible. That had been close, too close. The shot had almost parted his hair. Only his lightning quick reflexes, and the microsecond's warning provided by his superhuman senses had got him out of the way. If he had ducked half a heartbeat later, his head would have been an exploding fountain of gore and bone.
- Space Wolf Omnibus Page 269
Before they could finish their initial screams of surprise, Barsabbas swept his forearm and pinned the closest against the wall, crushing his spine. The rest backed away, yelling loud, panicked words. One of them began to fumble with a lasrifle, but he was unfamiliar with it beyond ceremonial purpose. He attempted to fire on Barsabbas with the safety still caught. Like a great fish breaking the surface, Barsabbas tossed a sentry away and flung him down the corridor. Hastily lashed shock mauls bounced off his unyielding hide. The remaining three men were tossed about like bushels of grain. Each surge of Barsabbas’s steel bound limbs threw them from wall to wall, bouncing them, breaking them. The Blood Gorgon was simply playing with them
-Blood Gorgons Page 153
Also this one from Blood Gorgons is important, as the resistance of Astartes shock mauls bouncing off his flesh calls into question if Royal Guard force pikes could even seriously hurt a space marine.
But anyway, point being that GW has oversight over every single book, more-so than any video made for Dawn of War or a movie because it doesn't cost thousands of dollars to do a re-shoot if they don't like something, and supersonic scenes are far easier to do in text than an extremely low budget direct-to-tv movie release that nobody cares about (because it's horribly inaccurate on the most basic things of space marines) and short promotional videos done for Dawn of War.
The toss up is the Emperor's Guard v the Terminator.
I assume equal martial prowess on a man-to-man basis and force-sensitivity by the EG, The EG are "handpicked from the very best of his forces. Out of millions of soldiers, they are unsurpassed." Sounds kind of like a Marine.
If the EG are Force-sensitives, they would win based on numbers and vibrostaff/force pike technology which is basically the same as a power weapon.
So I'd say the terminator is in pretty big trouble...you can only roll so many 2s.
FFS people. Force Pikes and vibro weapons are NOTHING like power weapons. Vibrostaffs can only cut through that which they can sonically excite, and force pikes literally won't do anything to power armor. They're a glorified taser stick.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 06:27:40
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Which should be disregarded entirely, I think, because it couldn't have happened. Its very premise is contradictory to all established lore.
It's also just as canon as anything else GW produces for 40k. You can make your arguments for throwing it out, but in the end you're just creating your own personal version of 40k that works the way you want it to. Wyzilla's quotes of high-end marine speed are no more valid than the Ultramarines movie demonstrating much slower speeds.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Lamest depiction of space marines in the film. There was literally nothing that made a new audience aware their superhuman nature. They may as well have been ordinary men in armoured suits. Even their armour was next to useless!
Still Peregrine's point stands. GW constantly make contradictory depictions of and statements about space marines. While 40k is a well written and in depth universe, like a lot of long-running, expansive sci-fi settings, the truth is the makers probably just change stuff to suit them as they go along. And sometimes they forget that those changes invalidate earlier things.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 14:42:56
Wyzilla wrote:
FFS people. Force Pikes and vibro weapons are NOTHING like power weapons. Vibrostaffs can only cut through that which they can sonically excite, and force pikes literally won't do anything to power armor. They're a glorified taser stick.
While we never see a Force Pike being used, the Electrostaffs used by their Droid predecessors have been used, onscreen, to parry lightsabers - which absolutely are equivalent to power weapons, and have been stated to only be blockable by certain specialist materials or by energy fields.
Other than that, we have literally no idea what Force Pikes are or do, other than that they are silver rods with some kind of device that looks a little bit like a lightsaber on the bottom end, and were employed by a unit specifically trained to stop "Jedi" assassins.
According to Saga Edition, they are "1-meter-long poles topped with power tips. A two-setting power dial located near the bottom of the pike allows the user to set the weapon to "lethal" or "stun". Although primarily a vibro weapon, the force pike also delivers and electrical shock through its tip, dealing both piercing and energy damage."
Of course, the idea of a vibro-weapon designed to stab rather than cut is idiotic at best, but despite the name they appear to basically be Power Rapiers.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
How come no-one ever mentions Space Marine Librarians in these discussions?
Librarian > Jedi
Power armour augments a space marine's already superhuman speed and strength. Power armour is heat resistant (terminator armour even more so) and light Sabres are heat based weapons. Force swords have cutting/blocking power presumably about the same as light Sabres. Except the slightest cut from a force weapon instakills (an always unarmoured) Jedi, while an armoured space marine will likely survive a blow from a light sabre.
Librarians have all the abilities of Jedi (divination, biomancy, telekinesis, telepathy) and more (eg: SW, DA and BA powers).
Librarians outnumber Jedi too. If every SM chapter had only ten librarians, there would be 10,000 librarians.
Wyzilla wrote:
FFS people. Force Pikes and vibro weapons are NOTHING like power weapons. Vibrostaffs can only cut through that which they can sonically excite, and force pikes literally won't do anything to power armor. They're a glorified taser stick.
While we never see a Force Pike being used, the Electrostaffs used by their Droid predecessors have been used, onscreen, to parry lightsabers - which absolutely are equivalent to power weapons, and have been stated to only be blockable by certain specialist materials or by energy fields.
Other than that, we have literally no idea what Force Pikes are or do, other than that they are silver rods with some kind of device that looks a little bit like a lightsaber on the bottom end, and were employed by a unit specifically trained to stop "Jedi" assassins.
According to Saga Edition, they are "1-meter-long poles topped with power tips. A two-setting power dial located near the bottom of the pike allows the user to set the weapon to "lethal" or "stun". Although primarily a vibro weapon, the force pike also delivers and electrical shock through its tip, dealing both piercing and energy damage."
Of course, the idea of a vibro-weapon designed to stab rather than cut is idiotic at best, but despite the name they appear to basically be Power Rapiers.
While a Force pike, if its been made with a cortosis weave, can parry a lightsaber, it does not have the same cutting properties and is really not much better at cutting than a regular sword. Given the chronic lack of body armor in the star wars universe that is effective against melee weapons it doesn't matter much in their universe of course.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
It doesn't matter if Blasters are even capable of megajoule level shots, because we know two things-
1) Everybody in Star Wars is too damn stupid to use those firepower settings against anything that isn't a wall, much like phasers in Star Trek. It doesn't matter how powerful the weapon is if the blockhead using it doesn't even remember how to properly use it in the first place without breaking out of character.
2) Those megajoule level shots are questionable in the first place considering the unarmored humans standing near those shots do not suddenly ignite/melt. Not to mention that blasters actually have kick, so firing off megajoule shots should definitely have a very visible effect on their shoulders.
Two things:
1) It's been pointed out the effect a megajoule shot would have on a human torso is not PG, thus, it was not used. Messy results of blaster shots are described in books.
2) No. You can stand next to a considerable local heat source and not spontaneously ignite. People using plasma cutters don't spontaneously ignite. The "recoil" is just a stunt effect so the FX crew knows to insert the "blaster shot" at a particular point. The megajoule of energy is contained thermal energy, not imparted kinetic energy.
The toss up is the Emperor's Guard v the Terminator.
I assume equal martial prowess on a man-to-man basis and force-sensitivity by the EG, The EG are "handpicked from the very best of his forces. Out of millions of soldiers, they are unsurpassed." Sounds kind of like a Marine.
If the EG are Force-sensitives, they would win based on numbers and vibrostaff/force pike technology which is basically the same as a power weapon.
So I'd say the terminator is in pretty big trouble...you can only roll so many 2s.
I agree, 1-2 Emperors Guard would get crushed by a single Terminator.
I' gonna call in the Fremen and Leto II to crush both genres....
The toss up is the Emperor's Guard v the Terminator.
I assume equal martial prowess on a man-to-man basis and force-sensitivity by the EG, The EG are "handpicked from the very best of his forces. Out of millions of soldiers, they are unsurpassed." Sounds kind of like a Marine.
If the EG are Force-sensitives, they would win based on numbers and vibrostaff/force pike technology which is basically the same as a power weapon.
So I'd say the terminator is in pretty big trouble...you can only roll so many 2s.
FFS people. Force Pikes and vibro weapons are NOTHING like power weapons. Vibrostaffs can only cut through that which they can sonically excite, and force pikes literally won't do anything to power armor. They're a glorified taser stick.
Vibro weapon...mono-molecular blade with a energy source that allows a blade weapon to vibrate sonically slicing through armor with ease... sounds like a power weapon to me.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/09 19:03:37
22 yrs in the hobby
:Eldar: 10K+ pts, 2500 pts
1850 pts
Vampire Counts 4000+
Imperial ships are plagued with technology that they forgot how to use, and need chain gangs of 100's of slaves just to reload 1 missile silos or 1 broadside weapon.
22 yrs in the hobby
:Eldar: 10K+ pts, 2500 pts
1850 pts
Vampire Counts 4000+
Wyzilla wrote: FFS people. Force Pikes and vibro weapons are NOTHING like power weapons. Vibrostaffs can only cut through that which they can sonically excite, and force pikes literally won't do anything to power armor. They're a glorified taser stick.
While we never see a Force Pike being used, the Electrostaffs used by their Droid predecessors have been used, onscreen, to parry lightsabers - which absolutely are equivalent to power weapons, and have been stated to only be blockable by certain specialist materials or by energy fields.
Which does not mean they're lethal at all. IG-100 Electrostaffs are not inherently lethal, they're also just stun wepaons and can parry lightsabers due to being made out of phrik. Although stuff blocking lightsabers in Star Wars was nothing new, not even in the movies. In The Empire Strikes Back, Luke's lightsaber bounces off a guard-rail during the duel, and Vader's armor also tanks a strike to the shoulder that would have cleaved him from shoulder to pubis. In Legends this gets even worse as lightsaber resistant materials just pop out of the woodwork everywhere.
Other than that, we have literally no idea what Force Pikes are or do, other than that they are silver rods with some kind of device that looks a little bit like a lightsaber on the bottom end, and were employed by a unit specifically trained to stop "Jedi" assassins.
Yes, it is confusing as the only information on them is from Legends... but I actually don't remember if the comic on the Emperor's Royal Guard actually featured them using force pikes at all. Rather they seem to primarily be running around with vibrostaves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rune Stonegrinder wrote: Imperial ships are plagued with technology that they forgot how to use, and need chain gangs of 100's of slaves just to reload 1 missile silos or 1 broadside weapon.
Doesn't matter when Star Wars ships are neither capable of scratching the shields and that those reloads by the crew actually only take a couple minutes. Meanwhile lance batteries can also fire freely.
The toss up is the Emperor's Guard v the Terminator.
I assume equal martial prowess on a man-to-man basis and force-sensitivity by the EG, The EG are "handpicked from the very best of his forces. Out of millions of soldiers, they are unsurpassed." Sounds kind of like a Marine.
If the EG are Force-sensitives, they would win based on numbers and vibrostaff/force pike technology which is basically the same as a power weapon.
So I'd say the terminator is in pretty big trouble...you can only roll so many 2s.
I agree, 1-2 Emperors Guard would get crushed by a single Terminator.
I' gonna call in the Fremen and Leto II to crush both genres....
The toss up is the Emperor's Guard v the Terminator.
I assume equal martial prowess on a man-to-man basis and force-sensitivity by the EG, The EG are "handpicked from the very best of his forces. Out of millions of soldiers, they are unsurpassed." Sounds kind of like a Marine.
If the EG are Force-sensitives, they would win based on numbers and vibrostaff/force pike technology which is basically the same as a power weapon.
So I'd say the terminator is in pretty big trouble...you can only roll so many 2s.
FFS people. Force Pikes and vibro weapons are NOTHING like power weapons. Vibrostaffs can only cut through that which they can sonically excite, and force pikes literally won't do anything to power armor. They're a glorified taser stick.
Vibro weapon...mono-molecular blade with a energy source that allows a blade weapon to vibrate sonically slicing through armor with ease... sounds like a power weapon to me.
Vibro Weapons are nothing like power weapons. Power weapons have an energy field that actively destroys the molecular bonds of all materials it comes in contact with- it has the same cutting power as a lightsaber, only superior in that it has an actual blade with weight behind it (using a weightless blade against a weighted one will quickly lead to you eating your weightless blade in a parry).
It doesn't matter if Blasters are even capable of megajoule level shots, because we know two things-
1) Everybody in Star Wars is too damn stupid to use those firepower settings against anything that isn't a wall, much like phasers in Star Trek. It doesn't matter how powerful the weapon is if the blockhead using it doesn't even remember how to properly use it in the first place without breaking out of character.
2) Those megajoule level shots are questionable in the first place considering the unarmored humans standing near those shots do not suddenly ignite/melt. Not to mention that blasters actually have kick, so firing off megajoule shots should definitely have a very visible effect on their shoulders.
Two things:
1) It's been pointed out the effect a megajoule shot would have on a human torso is not PG, thus, it was not used. Messy results of blaster shots are described in books.
"Messy results in the books" do not come anywhere close to being shot by megajoulse of energy. Messy results can happen merely from kilojoules, or are you unfamiliar with just what mere 7.62x39mm does to a human body? I'd post pictures, but then I'd get banned because of the excessive gore. Messily killing people does not mean we should ever jump to something as absurd as megajoule blasters (which never were valid mind you, because even prior to the Disney retcon, Movie Canon was the highest and superior to everything else).
2) No. You can stand next to a considerable local heat source and not spontaneously ignite. People using plasma cutters don't spontaneously ignite. The "recoil" is just a stunt effect so the FX crew knows to insert the "blaster shot" at a particular point. The megajoule of energy is contained thermal energy, not imparted kinetic energy.
People using plasma cutters are also not unleashing more energy than a Abrams tank right by their face. And blasters carry both kinetic and thermal energy, they are not pure energy weapons as they have visible kick.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/12/09 20:16:33
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Rune Stonegrinder wrote:Imperial ships are plagued with technology that they forgot how to use, and need chain gangs of 100's of slaves just to reload 1 missile silos or 1 broadside weapon.
To be fair, that information comes from Battlefleet Gothic, which was published when the GW writers were in full grimderp mode. Nothing in the official books explicitly contradicts it as far as I'm aware, but it isn't thematically in line with the fluff as we know it today. Regardless, IoM ships in warfare don't seem to be the worse for wear in space battles despite this hurdle if it exists.
When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail.
There's a lot of off-the- bat statements about power weapons being equivalent to lightsabres. Though I'm not invested in trying to convince anyone of the superiority of either universe, I'd just like to point out that from any depictions I've seen or read, a lighsabre is far deadlier than a power weapon.
Edit: And from similar observations I would'n't say vibro weapons are at the same level of effectiveness as power weapons either.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/12/10 00:15:32
thegreatchimp wrote: There's a lot of off-the- bat statements about power weapons being equivalent to lightsabres. Though I'm not invested in trying to convince anyone of the superiority of either universe, I'd just like to point out that from any depictions I've seen or read, a lighsabre is far deadlier than a power weapon.
Edit: And from similar observations I would'n't say vibro weapons are at the same level of effectiveness as power weapons either.
How so? Both are some sort of energy field and/or plasma shaped into blade form and used to cut things, the difference is that 40k power weapons have a physical blade inside. And there are examples of "energy-only" power weapons, such as the one Inquisitor Eisenhorn carried, though these excruciatingly rare archaeotech.
When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
There is also range issues to consider.
Given that all Star Wars space battles occur within visual range of each other we thus know that Turbolasers have terrible ranges and/or Star Wars ships are incapable of targeting anything farther than a few hundred kilometers from themselves. Meanwhile, 40k ships engage each other at distances of hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
Also, the slowest Imperial Navy ship has a sublight speed of roughly 240,000 kilometers per hour. Which makes them way way way faster than any Star Wars ship.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Also, the slowest Imperial Navy ship has a sublight speed of roughly 240,000 kilometers per hour. Which makes them way way way faster than any Star Wars ship.
Uh, no. That makes no sense at all and is nothing more than a clueless author who doesn't understand what they're talking about.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Grey Templar wrote: Also, the slowest Imperial Navy ship has a sublight speed of roughly 240,000 kilometers per hour. Which makes them way way way faster than any Star Wars ship.
Uh, no. That makes no sense at all and is nothing more than a clueless author who doesn't understand what they're talking about.
So why is it that you're allowed to disregard obviously ludicrous numerical values while others are not?
When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail.
Grey Templar wrote: Also, the slowest Imperial Navy ship has a sublight speed of roughly 240,000 kilometers per hour. Which makes them way way way faster than any Star Wars ship.
Uh, no. That makes no sense at all and is nothing more than a clueless author who doesn't understand what they're talking about.
No, thats what was said by GW when BFG was still around. They said the conversions of the speeds and distances in BFG were "to scale", with a turn lasting 5 minutes.
An Earth sized planet in BFG is 5" in diameter(or 12.7 centimeters).
Battleships, the slowest type of vessel outside of a few unique cases, typically move 20 centimeters in a turn.
Earth, quite conveniently, has a diameter of 12,756 kilometers. This means that a centimeter on the tabletop is roughly equal to 1,000 kilometers.
So a ship with a speed of 20 centimeters moves at 20,000 kilometers per 5 minutes. 20,000 x 12 five minute segments in an hour = 240,000 KPH, for a slow battleship.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Also, the slowest Imperial Navy ship has a sublight speed of roughly 240,000 kilometers per hour. Which makes them way way way faster than any Star Wars ship.
Uh, no. That makes no sense at all and is nothing more than a clueless author who doesn't understand what they're talking about.
No, thats what was said by GW when BFG was still around. They said the conversions of the speeds and distances in BFG were "to scale", with a turn lasting 5 minutes.
An Earth sized planet in BFG is 5" in diameter(or 12.7 centimeters).
Battleships, the slowest type of vessel outside of a few unique cases, typically move 20 centimeters in a turn.
Earth, quite conveniently, has a diameter of 12,756 kilometers. This means that a centimeter on the tabletop is roughly equal to 1,000 kilometers.
So a ship with a speed of 20 centimeters moves at 20,000 kilometers per 5 minutes. 20,000 x 12 five minute segments in an hour = 240,000 KPH, for a slow battleship.
And yet your evidence now directly contradicts your earlier post about weapon ranges for IOM ships. The max range for BFG was 60 cms, so the effective range is only 60,000kms? Hardly the hundreds of thousands posted earlier. I'd also point out that there is at least one book in which ranges are posted at only hundreds of kms.
GW have absolutely no consistency on the matter so it becomes impossible to make these comparisons.
Cheers
Andrew
I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!
Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
Grey Templar wrote: Also, the slowest Imperial Navy ship has a sublight speed of roughly 240,000 kilometers per hour. Which makes them way way way faster than any Star Wars ship.
Uh, no. That makes no sense at all and is nothing more than a clueless author who doesn't understand what they're talking about.
No, thats what was said by GW when BFG was still around. They said the conversions of the speeds and distances in BFG were "to scale", with a turn lasting 5 minutes.
An Earth sized planet in BFG is 5" in diameter(or 12.7 centimeters).
Battleships, the slowest type of vessel outside of a few unique cases, typically move 20 centimeters in a turn.
Earth, quite conveniently, has a diameter of 12,756 kilometers. This means that a centimeter on the tabletop is roughly equal to 1,000 kilometers.
So a ship with a speed of 20 centimeters moves at 20,000 kilometers per 5 minutes. 20,000 x 12 five minute segments in an hour = 240,000 KPH, for a slow battleship.
And yet your evidence now directly contradicts your earlier post about weapon ranges for IOM ships. The max range for BFG was 60 cms, so the effective range is only 60,000kms? Hardly the hundreds of thousands posted earlier. I'd also point out that there is at least one book in which ranges are posted at only hundreds of kms.
GW have absolutely no consistency on the matter so it becomes impossible to make these comparisons.
Cheers
Andrew
I believe they did state this was only for movement speed. Weapon ranges were not to scale.
And even if that was not the case, tens of thousands of kilometers would still outrange Star Wars by several orders of magnitude, not to mention be way faster to boot.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/10 04:03:44
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: No, thats what was said by GW when BFG was still around. They said the conversions of the speeds and distances in BFG were "to scale", with a turn lasting 5 minutes.
An Earth sized planet in BFG is 5" in diameter(or 12.7 centimeters).
Battleships, the slowest type of vessel outside of a few unique cases, typically move 20 centimeters in a turn.
Earth, quite conveniently, has a diameter of 12,756 kilometers. This means that a centimeter on the tabletop is roughly equal to 1,000 kilometers.
So a ship with a speed of 20 centimeters moves at 20,000 kilometers per 5 minutes. 20,000 x 12 five minute segments in an hour = 240,000 KPH, for a slow battleship.
The point is that talking about maximum speed in space is just demonstrating that you have no clue how things move in space. Since the statement of maximum speed makes about as much sense as saying "1+1=purple" it must be discarded.
Also, you probably don't want to be using game mechanics to provide fluff answers or you're stuck with power armor that fails 33% of the time when a normal human punches it with bare fists. And you thought the ewoks were embarrassing...
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Grey Templar wrote: No, thats what was said by GW when BFG was still around. They said the conversions of the speeds and distances in BFG were "to scale", with a turn lasting 5 minutes.
An Earth sized planet in BFG is 5" in diameter(or 12.7 centimeters).
Battleships, the slowest type of vessel outside of a few unique cases, typically move 20 centimeters in a turn.
Earth, quite conveniently, has a diameter of 12,756 kilometers. This means that a centimeter on the tabletop is roughly equal to 1,000 kilometers.
So a ship with a speed of 20 centimeters moves at 20,000 kilometers per 5 minutes. 20,000 x 12 five minute segments in an hour = 240,000 KPH, for a slow battleship.
The point is that talking about maximum speed in space is just demonstrating that you have no clue how things move in space. Since the statement of maximum speed makes about as much sense as saying "1+1=purple" it must be discarded.
Also, you probably don't want to be using game mechanics to provide fluff answers or you're stuck with power armor that fails 33% of the time when a normal human punches it with bare fists. And you thought the ewoks were embarrassing...
Except unlike 4ok, BFG was made to reflect the fluff.
Sure, there is no theoretical maximum speed in space. But there is a speed to which you can reliably still perform combat maneuvers, and not kill your crew with the g-forces involved. BFG does allow ships to perform an All ahead full order, which lets them move significantly faster with some penalties.
So 240,000 kilometers per hour is the combat speed of a 40k Battleship. The speed at which is can exert full control over its movement.
And heck, if we are going to be extremely pedantic about things, the sheer fact 40k ships are larger than Star Wars ships means they will be faster due to having larger engines and able to mount more powerful weaponry. In reality, in space combat Bigger will always be better.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/10 04:13:36
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I believe they did state this was only for movement speed. Weapon ranges were not to scale.
And even if that was not the case, tens of thousands of kilometers would still outrange Star Wars by several orders of magnitude, not to mention be way faster to boot.
So what your saying is that, according to GW, 1cm =1000kms when moving, but its more than that when firing? Nice to see GW are keeping the consistency there.
Except unlike 4ok, BFG was made to reflect the fluff.
Sure, there is no theoretical maximum speed in space. But there is a speed to which you can reliably still perform combat maneuvers, and not kill your crew with the g-forces involved. BFG does allow ships to perform an All ahead full order, which lets them move significantly faster with some penalties.
So 240,000 kilometers per hour is the combat speed of a 40k Battleship. The speed at which is can exert full control over its movement.
And heck, if we are going to be extremely pedantic about things, the sheer fact 40k ships are larger than Star Wars ships means they will be faster due to having larger engines and able to mount more powerful weaponry. In reality, in space combat Bigger will always be better.
No bigger is most definitely not better. Unfortunately things like inertia and momentum get in the way. And as for a ship attempting to turn when its engines are at the back.......
Cheers
Andrew
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/10 04:22:22
I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!
Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
Grey Templar wrote: But there is a speed to which you can reliably still perform combat maneuvers, and not kill your crew with the g-forces involved.
That also doesn't make any sense.
In reality, in space combat Bigger will always be better.
Only at equivalent tech levels. A Culture warship is smaller than most 40k capital ships, but could annihilate the combined fleets of the entire 40k setting in less time than it took you to read this sentence.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Grey Templar wrote: But there is a speed to which you can reliably still perform combat maneuvers, and not kill your crew with the g-forces involved.
That also doesn't make any sense.
Yes it does. If you are going too fast to change direction fast enough you cannot meaningfully contribute to a battle, or changing direction too quickly would cause your ship to tear itself in half. Alternately, maybe your ship can make a turn, but your crew would be killed by the deceleration/acceleration. So you have to go slower than the ship's maximum capabilities.
Most modern fighters can pull some insane speeds and turns, but their pilots would never survive what the plane could actually do.
Only at equivalent tech levels. A Culture warship is smaller than most 40k capital ships, but could annihilate the combined fleets of the entire 40k setting in less time than it took you to read this sentence.
I suppose. Unfortunately for Star Wars that goes to 40k as well.
Except unlike 4ok, BFG was made to reflect the fluff.
Sure, there is no theoretical maximum speed in space. But there is a speed to which you can reliably still perform combat maneuvers, and not kill your crew with the g-forces involved. BFG does allow ships to perform an All ahead full order, which lets them move significantly faster with some penalties.
So 240,000 kilometers per hour is the combat speed of a 40k Battleship. The speed at which is can exert full control over its movement.
And heck, if we are going to be extremely pedantic about things, the sheer fact 40k ships are larger than Star Wars ships means they will be faster due to having larger engines and able to mount more powerful weaponry. In reality, in space combat Bigger will always be better.
No bigger is most definitely not better. Unfortunately things like inertia and momentum get in the way. And as for a ship attempting to turn when its engines are at the back.......
Cheers
Andrew
Yes it is, because you need large engines to achieve faster speeds.
In reality, "fighters" will never be a thing in space. If you have two ships and one is larger and has a bigger engine, it will be the faster ship.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/10 04:46:51
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
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